Disney Springs Discussion

[IzzyB]

Yeah the guy I talked sounded really sad because he felt there was nothing to see or ride for his boy and he just spent all that money. I helped him as much as I could and told him the rides his kid would like. Helped him get to ET and showed him the play area. He seemed to cheer up a little. So I do try to help people who I can, but a little bit of research before going could have really helped make th else people vacation better.

 

[Teebin]

It's really more of an observation than anything else. If we don't identify them as dumb tourist it doesn't change anything. I do agree with your point though to a certain extent.

Yeah, I find that the numbest people socially are scientists, lead cancer scientists, lead global warming scientists, lead aeronautics and space engineers and scientists and even lead political scientists.

Hopefully, everyone is polite and patient with all guests despite their apparent ignorance of the themed entertainment world.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I find that the numbest people socially are scientists, lead cancer scientists, lead global warming scientists, lead aeronautics and space engineers and scientists and even lead political scientists.

Hopefully, everyone is polite and patient with all guests despite their apparent ignorance of the themed entertainment world.

No one said they weren't patient with them. Two posters have given examples of helping people and I could give a few too. My inner guest service agent has never quite left.

 

[IzzyB]

Yeah, I find that the numbest people socially are scientists, lead cancer scientists, lead global warming scientists, lead aeronautics and space engineers and scientists and even lead political scientists.

Hopefully, everyone is polite and patient with all guests despite their apparent ignorance of the themed entertainment world.

My one friend has zero common sense. She is very book smart and is pretty successful in her career. But she will admit she has no common sense. Even she figured out which parks to go to and where they were

I do help guests all the time. If I overhear something really wrong, I kind of butt in and help them so they know the right way to go or things like that. I want to make their vacation better, but I just wish sometimes people did a little bit more research ahead of time. But honestly those extreme examples probably do not happen often. I imagine the majority of the mistakes are smaller and have way less of an impact on their vacations.

 

[epcyclopedia]

One thing I'll never forget is from when I was working at Epcot one year during the Christmas to New Years period and Msgic Kingdom was closed to capacity.

I was in the deepest part of Future World where you'd have to make several turns and go through several places and pass many CMs to get to me.

This man with his wife and 2 children was like "where's the castle?"

So, ok, wrong park - what kind of ticket? One day.

Ok, when did you buy it? Today. At the front gate of Epcot. After parking at Epcot. After being redirected to Epcot because Magic Kingdom was at capacity.

And now he's there deep within Epcot looking for "the castle" still.

That's not even a momentary thing or lack of attention... That's full on stupid. I know it sounds harsh, but if you got that far without reading any signs or figuring out what was going on and you gave people money to both park and buy tickets.. I don't think you should be allowed to drive. You're a danger to others.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Ok guys lets get this back on topic.

 

[SeventyOne]

Did anyone ever spend a full day in this place before? I would think most people would visit on their off park day and spend half the day in the resort pools and the other half here. I would never thing of a shopping/entertainment place like this to be a full day event. That would be like saying you can spend a full day in citywalk. You wouldn't do that either. You would spend the evening there and the day time at the pool or park.

This new development isn't meant to compete with old DTD/CityWalk. It's meant to compete with Millenia and the outlet malls and Florida Mall. And yes, lots of tourists--not me--go by the busload and spend the better part of a day there.

It's a touch too literal to say "all day." But my point is they like browsing stores--if the competition has double the number of stores, the competition has an edge.

 

[SeventyOne]

We've got a problem if people are going to malls expecting to spend an entire day there and not get bored. Before about 5-6, DS is pretty boring anyway.

I imagine in the grand scheme of things, # of people who can spend all day in mall > # of people that go to a theme park every year and care enough about theme parks to read message boards.

It can never be said enough: the vast majority of Orlando tourists are not "lifestylers."

 

[Nick]

This new development isn't meant to compete with old DTD/CityWalk. It's meant to compete with Millenia and the outlet malls and Florida Mall. And yes, lots of tourists--not me--go by the busload and spend the better part of a day there.

It's a touch too literal to say "all day." But my point is they like browsing stores--if the competition has double the number of stores, the competition has an edge.

But if they stop going to the competitor because Disney has just enough of what they want, then will it matter?

 

[SeventyOne]

In fact, I couldn't help but realize that the music that was playing reminded me of general mall music- nothing really "Disney" about it.

It's smooth jazz versions of songs from the animated classics. "Disney Muzak." Takes something unique and makes it generic--there's a metaphor here, I'm sure.

 

[SeventyOne]

But if they stop going to the competitor because Disney has just enough of what they want, then will it matter?

Yes, because I think the act of shopping--"window shopping" if that terms is still used--is as much a part of the draw as the buying part.

 

[Brian G.]

It's smooth jazz versions of songs from the animated classics. "Disney Muzak." Takes something unique and makes it generic--there's a metaphor here, I'm sure.

I know over in some places you can hear that, but if that's what was playing at Town Center.... I couldn't tell what songs they played...

 

[Nick]

I know over in some places you can hear that, but if that's what was playing at Town Center.... I couldn't tell what songs they played...

It's the Marketplace. They changed background music last year. I actually enjoy it and find it elegantly Disney. It's better than blaring High School Musical...

 

[Nick]

Yes, because I think the act of shopping--"window shopping" if that terms is still used--is as much a part of the draw as the buying part.

The goal they set out for wasn't to put Millenia out of business though. They simply want a slice of the pie so to speak and if it helps keep a % of people on property more (even a small %), they will have achieved what they set out to do. Not change the world, just grab their slice.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The problem is that they already have their slice, but they want your slice and my slice and everyone else's slice and if a certain paraplegic hadnt died they'd be going after the patent and copyright for all slices for eternity as well.

 

[epcyclopedia]

I was looking for stats for Maelstrom for another post I'll put over in that thread shortly.. but while doing so I ran across a conversation with Eddie Sotto (Late 90's early 00's imagineer) about theme and themed design and he articulated what I've been struggling to in this thread.

"Perhaps. As to theme, to me it's styling vs theming. Disney store is styled, park is themed"

And that's how i feel about Disney Springs. It's styled, not themed. Pleasure Island was themed.

 

[Nick]

I was looking for stats for Maelstrom for another post I'll put over in that thread shortly.. but while doing so I ran across a conversation with Eddie Sotto (Late 90's early 00's imagineer) about theme and themed design and he articulated what I've been struggling to in this thread.

"Perhaps. As to theme, to me it's styling vs theming. Disney store is styled, park is themed"

And that's how i feel about Disney Springs. It's styled, not themed. Pleasure Island was themed.

Not to argue that the clubs weren't preferable, but you had to pay for PI. I do agree some areas are overly bland and the theme they were going for seems a tad jumbled. On the flip-side, if you give people a fully immersive area and with all of that dining on The Landing, what incentive do people have to go to World Showcase?

I almost wonder if they styled more than themed the area on purpose. It is nice looking, but you long for the thematic immersion you might get in a theme park. It's definitely a wild transition going from Town Center to Marketplace or The Landing... totally different feels. It almost seems like they kept the "Disney" out of Town Center as a way to lure more locals that may want to shop, but aren't Disney freaks and don't like being beaten over the head by Mickey everywhere.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Disney charges extortionate rents for their tenants. That's why there's so many empty storefronts - even in the older areas (they're well hidden, but still there).

When Pleasure Island went open-admission the idea was to get tenants. The ridiculous asking price from Disney prevented that and it crumbled. The live entertainment costs became a burden and the clubs when open were seen as a liability.

Then they decided to redo the area as Hyperion Wharf - still "themed" but removing all the live entertainment, clubs, etc.. that were seen as problematic. Again, no willing tenants.

So they value engineered again, shrunk the size of most storefronts, and generally made it an outlet mall. The inclusion of certain brands was essentially promised to other stores to guarantee foot traffic - but the reality is that makes a mall, not a themed area. So, mall it is.

Honestly, the only store so far that seems to have gone above and beyond to have their own unique space is Uniqlo. It has that relatively huge chunk behind TRex.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And just for reference - one of the most beloved area of World Showcase is the Japan pavilion. It comes to mind because of how Morimoto and Uniqlo are turning out to be major tenants for Disney Springs. Not only in size but also their investment compared to other tenants.

Now why does that bring up the Japan pavilion, aside from these being Japanese endeavors?

Because the entire Japan pavilion is run by a Japanese department store chain, Mitsukoshi. They run the store, the food, all of it. They constantly spend money to upgrade and expand their pavilion. They want their pavilion, despite having no ride, to be a crown jewel in the offering - which to date it has been.

Which goes back to Disney Springs.. many retail offering decided to go with the prefab slot-in generic "whatever this area is supposed to be themed to" look of Disney Springs. That's what i find particularly disappointing.

 

[epcyclopedia]

This is the 5th floor "concept store" that Uniqlo built in Shanghai to showcase the Magic for Everyone brand, which will be the basis of their Disney Springs store and offerings.

It explains why the store at Disney Springs has a fairly prominent space and square footage. Its essentially Disney and Uniqlo's agreement to allow Uniqlo to use Marvel, Star Wars, and Disney on their apparel.