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State of UOAP & General Theme Park Fandom

Sep 23, 2013
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*MOD NOTE*

This discussion spurred from B&T Farewell Tour thread regarding the UOR contact/face of the UOAP Facebook group moving on from the position and a team replacing him.

This discussion is a general discussion of the state of fandom, their interactions with themselves and UOR, and other sociological studies.

WARNING: Off topic posts, posts attacking groups or individuals, overly negative posts, and posts spreading gossip will be deleted. This is a complex topic and this warning will be updated as see fit.

*MOD NOTE*

Someone on fb said matt korn was so upset hes leaving universal? I dont mean to gossip but, wow. ( unless it was a joke but all the comments to that post were serious)
 
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Someone on fb said matt korn was so upset hes leaving universal? I dont mean to gossip but, wow. ( unless it was a joke but all the comments to that post were serious)
I don't think that's the reason. I think the fact that he's being replaced by a team rather than an individual tells us the real reason. I really liked the way he handled things though. He kept things fun and engaging. The following that was building around him was beginning to get a little creepy though.
 
Someone on fb said matt korn was so upset hes leaving universal? I dont mean to gossip but, wow. ( unless it was a joke but all the comments to that post were serious)

That's complete BS. Why would he care this much about Bill & Ted to leave this job? Seriously? Which leads me to....

I’m noticing that trend among lifers.

There's a UOR lifestyler group forming that's gossiping, creating drama, and forming the same shitty cliques that annoys us about Disney. I'm also not happy about the cult of personality around Matt Korn.
 
There's a UOR lifestyler group forming that's gossiping, creating drama, and forming the same shitty cliques that annoys us about Disney. I'm also not happy about the cult of personality around Matt Korn.
I think UOR in part started it when they created the Facebook group and UOAP exclusive events. By bringing all the fans together they created a significant (yet at times creepy) community.
 
It was forming prior to that.
It seemed that way. I don't know when the UOAP exclusive stuff started, but I remember a few years back an AP holder getting banned from the park because he started a massive fight with a Manager over "call-backs" during Beetlejuice.

The more successful Universal becomes, the more people start to believe it's their own personal playground. Disney, as a corporation, does a fairly good job of leveraging the profitability of their lifestylers while keeping a safe barrier between fans and employees. Universal, by replacing Matt Korn with a committee, seems to following that lead. They're not a Mom and Pop shop where devotion to individual employees and performers can be a feature. It's a bug now.

Anyone who has stated they're "Never going back to Universal because they got rid of Bill and Ted" (and I've seen them), never grasped what the park was about in the first place.
 
It seemed that way. I don't know when the UOAP exclusive stuff started, but I remember a few years back an AP holder getting banned from the park because he started a massive fight with a Manager over "call-backs" during Beetlejuice.

The more successful Universal becomes, the more people start to believe it's their own personal playground. Disney, as a corporation, does a fairly good job of leveraging the profitability of their lifestylers while keeping a safe barrier between fans and employees. Universal, by replacing Matt Korn with a committee, seems to following that lead. They're not a Mom and Pop shop where devotion to individual employees and performers can be a feature. It's a bug now.

Anyone who has stated they're "Never going back to Universal because they got rid of Bill and Ted" (and I've seen them), never grasped what the park was about in the first place.

I don’t want to derail this thread too much (thinking of splitting this out if we go much farther) but I completely agree. It’s also not just new fans but older fans who’d rather see a more rag tag UOR with run down parks, old attractions, and cheap APs instead of better parks.
 
I think UOR in part started it when they created the Facebook group and UOAP exclusive events. By bringing all the fans together they created a significant (yet at times creepy) community.
Yes, UOR Marketing seems to have been working towards this for a while now and have reached their goal. They have created a fervent group of fans, die hards, and community that are pushing the product to everyone they can. Unfortunately, they can come across a little creepy and stalker-y and have become very quick to attack anyone with a different opinion.
 
Yes, UOR Marketing seems to have been working towards this for a while now and have reached their goal. They have created a fervent group of fans, die hards, and community that are pushing the product to everyone they can. Unfortunately, they can come across a little creepy and stalker-y and have become very quick to attack anyone with a different opinion.
Hmmm, sounds familiar :pixie:
 
I'm not totally sure but I think that Disney didn't mean to create the Pixiedusters. I feel like Universal had a goal to create this group and thought pattern.
Disney definitely didn't mean to create them... it was the internet that created them. In the late 90's when the internet was becoming widely used, Disney fan forums started popping up as a place to talk with other like-minded fans while you were away from your favorite vacation spot. As the internet grew, this became more of an obsession to people than it really ever should have.

Has Disney fed into it and profited off of it? Absolutely. Hell, D23 is proof. But they didn't set out to create the crazed-dusters that came from all of this. It just sort of organically happened.
 
Disney definitely didn't mean to create them... it was the internet that created them. In the late 90's when the internet was becoming widely used, Disney fan forums started popping up as a place to talk with other like-minded fans while you were away from your favorite vacation spot. As the internet grew, this became more of an obsession to people than it really ever should have.

Has Disney fed into it and profited off of it? Absolutely. Hell, D23 is proof. But they didn't set out to create the crazed-dusters that came from all of this. It just sort of organically happened.

Not quite. It goes earlier. Waaaay earlier. Disney fandom as it is today starts in the 60s and 70s through Disneyana collectors and fairs. This then translated into a larger fandom with the internet and then splintered off to just theme parks in the late 90s.

I'm not totally sure but I think that Disney didn't mean to create the Pixiedusters. I feel like Universal had a goal to create this group and thought pattern.

It sprung up concurrent of UOAP FB, but the creation of the group did fan the flames. I think the spark that created the current toxic UOAP fandom came from HHN, Potterwatch, and WDW’s years of AP pricing out of a lot of guests.
 
It seemed that way. I don't know when the UOAP exclusive stuff started, but I remember a few years back an AP holder getting banned from the park because he started a massive fight with a Manager over "call-backs" during Beetlejuice.

The more successful Universal becomes, the more people start to believe it's their own personal playground. Disney, as a corporation, does a fairly good job of leveraging the profitability of their lifestylers while keeping a safe barrier between fans and employees. Universal, by replacing Matt Korn with a committee, seems to following that lead. They're not a Mom and Pop shop where devotion to individual employees and performers can be a feature. It's a bug now.

Anyone who has stated they're "Never going back to Universal because they got rid of Bill and Ted" (and I've seen them), never grasped what the park was about in the first place.

I know losing bill and ted sucks and a lot of people are super sad, but some of that fandom started getting out of hand a little. One thing is to watch the show every night or take ONE picture with bill and ted, but some people starting to call them "family" and going to take pics with them every day. It felt like too much. Or quoting the actors' names on fb posts when complaining about problems with security not letting them sit on the reserve seats or the front line when there was no Space.
( or finding out where they work at disney to "visit" them lol.
Im not judging but u can tell when someone knows them personally or someone is just a fan.

You mentioned disney, how do they avoid this?
 
I know losing bill and ted sucks and a lot of people are super sad, but some of that fandom started getting out of hand a little. One thing is to watch the show every night or take ONE picture with bill and ted, but some people starting to call them "family" and going to take pics with them every day. It felt like too much. Or quoting the actors' names on fb posts when complaining about problems with security not letting them sit on the reserve seats or the front line when there was no Space.
( or finding out where they work at disney to "visit" them lol.
Im not judging but u can tell when someone knows them personally or someone is just a fan.

You mentioned disney, how do they avoid this?
Disney used to have a very similar problem to Bill & Ted with certain entertainment offerings around World Showcase, the biggest of course being Off Kilter.

Disney basically did a purge of entertainment that had a creepy following and wasn't worth what they were paying them and now Disney rotates through new, fresh entertainment on a much more frequent schedule. It's actually refreshing to go to Epcot in October and see one band playing and go in November and there's another band in the same venue. Always high quality too. By signing acts to shorter leases and rotating, fans are unable to build much of an emotional connection to them and you don't end up with a situation where people are creepily following where Off Kilter performs around Orlando now.

Similarly, Mulch Sweat and Shears had a bit of a following that was creepy at DHS before they were cut. As much as I loved B&T, I agree, things were getting to be way too much.
 
Now that i think about it, academy of villains had some trouble too. The Last week fans started to go to the park dressed like them and on halloween night some fans tried to go backstage pretending to be part of the group. Then the last night of hhn some girl tried to climb the stage from behind while they were dancing.
 
Yep, it's time to spin this conversation to its own thread. I think it's a valid discussion, just not here.

You mentioned disney, how do they avoid this?
The great entertainment purge was mentioned. Off-Kilter, Four 4 A Dollar/Return 2 Zero, Mulch Sweat and Tears were really the big ones. The short-contract rotations are a big benefit to that end. Also, for most of their other long-term entertainment (like the Dapper Dans and Voices of Liberty), they work by committee. It's not the same core guys for every show, plus a couple of swings. The way it was set up with the same guys every show, guests actually had time to develop specific habits and "relationships" with them that get murky. Variation and "group fronts" (Voices of Liberty aren't several people but just the Voices of Liberty) are the best way to combat this.

Disney is also very strict about role presentation. The characters are the characters and, while we know it's kayfabe, the performers who play them are completely separate from them. You don't really see Pixiedusters say, "Oh, Mike is the crappy Gaston so I'm not going back until Ken, the good Gaston, comes back from vacation." (I know it happens, but it's extremely rare and it breaks the unwritten rule of loving Disney which is "Don't ruin the magic.")

Universal messed up (either intentionally or not) and blurred that line. I can say, James, Erin, Jason, and PJ, and everyone knows I'm referring to Jack, Chance, Bill, and Ted. Some of it happened because of the designer forums when they introduced the performers as "who plays X." A lot of it happens through Twitter where management congratulates performers on their performances publicly. That would never fly at Disney. Jack the Clown would be MORE effective and scary if we had no idea who played him (which is one of the reasons why Bloody Mary worked so well). Imagine the emotional impact if Bill and Ted calling each other by their real names for the final show was the first time there was any acknowledgement or recognition of who they were as people (and prior to then we didn't know).

That's why I'm glad Matt Korn isn't THE guy to talk to for APs anymore. It shouldn't be a specific guy representing the entire company. The company should represent itself. Individual APs can have their specific reps (like season ticket holders for a sports team), but it shouldn't be one person who does EVERYTHING. When you do that, obsessives start to feel entitled because the business transaction starts to feel like a genuine, mutual relationship. That's not what it is.

The same barista takes my order at Starbucks every time I stop in. We know each others' names. We're friendly. We're not friends. That gets lost with a lot of obsessives.
 
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