State of UOAP & General Theme Park Fandom

[JoeCamel]

I don't think Uni is doing it, it's the fans who are doing it. Universal is just now catching on.



Posting for pics?

Posting = Posing

 

[Skipper Justin]

The Facebook group Disney Junkies is freaky and cultish. I got banned for saying the owners of the group were just normal people and asking why people wanted to photos. The UOAP reminded me of that with Matt.

 

[Lucky Planet]

What is the point of this thread?

I was just curious because of everything that has happened since bill and ted ended.

Stuff like how recently the bill and ted fb group was organizing a meet up at the park ( where everyone dressed as bill or ted) and universal said no because that constitutes as a protest and they didnt want that.

I don't think Uni is doing it, it's the fans who are doing it. Universal is just now catching on.



Posting for pics?

Sorry i was posting from my phone. Tim tracker just cannot stop for fans period.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The irony, they’ll stage a pseudo protest but won’t do a park survey.

 

[Imperius]

And actually expect them to bring it back next year.

 

[Legacy]

What is the point of this thread?

It’s predominantly just discussing observations, concerns, methods Universal can address, and potential causes for a certain sub-section of fans’ “over-zealousness” about Universal. For a couple of decades, the lifestyler/Pixieduster obsessiveness was limited (to great extent) to Disney. In the past about five years, Universal lifestylers have become far more prevalent. Whether it’s something Universal cultivated itself or not will be a matter of opinion. Thus the thread.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing from the parks’ perspective. It can lead to negative perception from more casual fans. I think it’s a valid (and fascinating) topic of discussion because I cannot grasp that sense of ownership in something I don’t actually possess.

 

[WAJAS]

It’s predominantly just discussing observations, concerns, methods Universal can address, and potential causes for a certain sub-section of fans’ “over-zealousness” about Universal. For a couple of decades, the lifestyler/Pixieduster obsessiveness was limited (to great extent) to Disney. In the past about five years, Universal lifestylers have become far more prevalent. Whether it’s something Universal cultivated itself or not will be a matter of opinion. Thus the thread.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing from the parks’ perspective. It can lead to negative perception from more casual fans. I think it’s a valid (and fascinating) topic of discussion because I cannot grasp that sense of ownership in something I don’t actually possess.

I agree completely with that last part. I love the parks and hope to one day work in their creative divisions, but it’s just odd to think of them as most of your life.

 

[SeventyOne]

Not quite. It goes earlier. Waaaay earlier. Disney fandom as it is today starts in the 60s and 70s through Disneyana collectors and fairs. This then translated into a larger fandom with the internet and then splintered off to just theme parks in the late 90s.

It sprung up concurrent of UOAP FB, but the creation of the group did fan the flames. I think the spark that created the current toxic UOAP fandom came from HHN, Potterwatch, and WDW’s years of AP pricing out of a lot of guests.

While I completely agree with your first paragraph, like a lot of things, the rise of cell phone culture (here meaning unlimited photos instantly available to anyone) accelerated the existing movement a hundred-fold. Things like bounding and the purple wall and even the rise of meet & greets among adult fans.

As for HHN, it was around a long time--had its die-hard fanbase, but I think most TMs would agree they were pretty chill outside of nitpicking the event online. IMO, this started with Potter 1.0--the IP that made it "safe" for Disney lifestylers to like UOR. I don't think it's coincidence the big complaints about B&T's worst fans echo the same complaints about the worst Adventurers Club fans.

 

[Bobharlem]

I've done events with the AP group before, but tend to stay far away from the obsessed folk (a lot of the same folk I saw waiting for a spot on the mardi gras floats multiple times by Barney). I am more interested in having fun than going for the almost pathological escapism some of these folk have (It's a very small amount, but they are *very* obvious, and some of them really do have honest mental or physical issues, so I just leave it alone).

Dealing with that on the business side is asking for it, though. What the UOAP folks did over the past year or so is awesome, for sure, but that element is going to ruin it, and I think the Bill & Ted stuff (petition/protest nonsense) is what pushed it over the edge.

I actually ran into Matt Korn at the new Escape Effect escape game on I drive earlier this week (which is really awesome btw), but didn't bother him like I know some of the folks there would have.
.

 

[Imperius]

Yeah people are complaining on the group that the new team isn’t telling them their full names. Get out of here man.

 

[Legacy]

Yeah people are complaining on the group that the new team isn’t telling them their full names. Get out of here man.

This is just asinine.

The fact the Universal has gone so long presenting themselves in a way where this sort of “faux relationship” has cultivated into an expectation is incredible. It goes back to the Disney doing an effective job of compartmentalizing this stuff. Universal is going to have rein that sort of stuff quickly. Getting rid of Bill and Ted and not using icons is almost necessary at this point. I’d go so far as doing a complete overhaul of entertainment (though that would never happen). Bring in new faces and establish guidelines that are closer to Disney so that the Unidusters are stripped of the false pretenses.

 

[Frank Drackman]

While I completely agree with your first paragraph, like a lot of things, the rise of cell phone culture (here meaning unlimited photos instantly available to anyone) accelerated the existing movement a hundred-fold. Things like bounding and the purple wall and even the rise of meet & greets among adult fans.

As for HHN, it was around a long time--had its die-hard fanbase, but I think most TMs would agree they were pretty chill outside of nitpicking the event online. IMO, this started with Potter 1.0--the IP that made it "safe" for Disney lifestylers to like UOR. I don't think it's coincidence the big complaints about B&T's worst fans echo the same complaints about the worst Adventurers Club fans.

I always forget about camera phones. I know when photography went digital, well, it is easy to just take pics and not worry about cost anymore....but I was talking to someone who worked at Disney Character Breakfast and he was telling me they can't move tables anymore since the whole family is taking 50 photos each (this was about a year ago).

 

[s8film40]

Universal messed up (either intentionally or not) and blurred that line. I can say, James, Erin, Jason, and PJ, and everyone knows I'm referring to Jack, Chance, Bill, and Ted. Some of it happened because of the designer forums when they introduced the performers as "who plays X." A lot of it happens through Twitter where management congratulates performers on their performances publicly. That would never fly at Disney. Jack the Clown would be MORE effective and scary if we had no idea who played him (which is one of the reasons why Bloody Mary worked so well). Imagine the emotional impact if Bill and Ted calling each other by their real names for the final show was the first time there was any acknowledgement or recognition of who they were as people (and prior to then we didn't know).

I disagree with this, I think this is one area that Universal has a pretty decent approach whereas Disney's is pretty clumsy. Disney started all of this as a way to "preserve the magic" for children. In much the same way we don't go to a mall and ask who's performing Santa in front of a bunch of kids they realized that the same principle applies to Mickey. The problem is this basic entertainment principle has become hard policy even when it doesn't apply. If you go to a standard theatrical presentation outside of theme parks you're going to be handed a program listing who is playing what parts. If you further go to a green room meet and greet after the show, the actors are going to be acknowledged by their names and you are given an opportunity to meet them, take a photo and compliment them on their performance. No one thinks this is weird or creepy. It's completely normal. Now while this often doesn't apply to theme parks mostly because they are targeted towards children, if you as an adult go to HHN (an adult event) and watch an adult show and are told by an adult employee that "no those aren't actors, it's the real Bill and Ted" THAT is truly creepy.

What we are starting to see are fans obsessing over the people who play the characters. Dudes aren't stalking Chance the murderous clown; they're stalking Erin. They're seeing her when she's playing Lucy Ricardo and staring at her for uncomfortably long periods of time. With fans looking for PJ at Disney, it's extended beyond an appreciation of the character to an unnecessary degree. In the case of them stalking Matt, they're literally stalking some random dude who was doing his job. There is no cognitive connection to justify that sort of behavior. It's just friggin' creepy.

This is where I agree with you. There is a difference in appreciating the actors work, finding that their performing something else of interest and deciding to watch that because they're a "good actor" and seeking out that actor just to see THEM with little or no interest in the role they're playing.




I think it's worth looking at the other side of this situation. EVERY fandom creates followings. This isn't unique to theme parks. I think some of what we're calling creepy would be considered perfectly normal in other fandoms, and maybe it shouldn't be and/or maybe we're taking things a little too far here. For example for the vast majority of the population if they were walking down a public street and saw their favorite celebrity, actor, musician, athlete etc. most would uncontrollably want to meet them and ask for a photo and compliment their work. If someone did this with Erin in lets say the Magic Kingdom most of us would be extremely creeped out by this. The question is why, and why not when it's not when it's a "true" celebrity. I think a large part of this is because the overwhelming majority don't see these fandoms as mainstream and normal. It's definitely more of a niche thing. Much like Star Trek fans being called geeks I think to some degree we're judging the people who are the fans and not the fandom itself. In a sense when this is acted on it really becomes more of a bullying type thing because these people aren't "normal". Now don't get me wrong as a Bill and Ted and theme park fan I've seen way more than a fair share of things that creeped me out. It's also worth pointing out most people don't get into acting saying "I want to be anonymous and don't want anyone to know who I really am". Personally I draw the line at delving into their personal lives. If there's an actor I like I will occasionally meet them compliment their work get one photo that sort of thing and if they perform another role that interest me I might be more inclined to check it out. I think with the theme park actors they are way more accessible and so some people see the very real potential that they could become friends with that person. That's when things get a little out of hand. For me as long as someone isn't crossing that line I'll just cringe on the inside and appreciate that they are enjoying themselves. I think everyone is far more creepy than they realize, if you don't believe me think of your favorite actor, musician, athlete etc. and think about how much you know about their personal life.

 

[Lucky Planet]

What do you guys think about people bringing gifts to actors in the shows or scareactors? Is that a nice harmless gesture of appreciation? Or does it cross a line?

 

[s8film40]

What do you guys think about people bringing gifts to actors in the shows or scareactors? Is that a nice harmless gesture of appreciation? Or does it cross a line?

I think it’s harmless and nice. It’s not exactly something I would be comfortable with and at times is one of the things that’s made me cringe a little inside.

Also on this subject I’ve seen this happen with just regular employees. In fact I’ve gotten some of these things myself during my time working in parks. I’ve honestly never really liked it, almost feels more about the person giving it trying to get extra attention. Again though if it makes someone happy and doesn’t really interfere with others than I’m happy for them and I’ll happily ignore it.

 

[Legacy]

I disagree with this, I think this is one area that Universal has a pretty decent approach whereas Disney's is pretty clumsy. Disney started all of this as a way to "preserve the magic" for children. In much the same way we don't go to a mall and ask who's performing Santa in front of a bunch of kids they realized that the same principle applies to Mickey. The problem is this basic entertainment principle has become hard policy even when it doesn't apply. If you go to a standard theatrical presentation outside of theme parks you're going to be handed a program listing who is playing what parts. If you further go to a green room meet and greet after the show, the actors are going to be acknowledged by their names and you are given an opportunity to meet them, take a photo and compliment them on their performance. No one thinks this is weird or creepy. It's completely normal. Now while this often doesn't apply to theme parks mostly because they are targeted towards children, if you as an adult go to HHN (an adult event) and watch an adult show and are told by an adult employee that "no those aren't actors, it's the real Bill and Ted" THAT is truly creepy.

I can understand this point. I think it’s a difference of Granny Smith and Red Delicious apples; they’re both performances but still different.

In traditional theater, the acknowledgement of performers is presented at the outset. You are given a playbill, there’s a performer board, and (for certain performers) it’s advertised as a way to draw attendees. It’s part of the agreement going in. That’s not done in theme parks or amusement parks. At all. Period. Anywhere. You can’t find official “Cast List” at guest relations or on the website. When these performers address the media or guests, they do it as their characters. The agreement that “I’m a performer and this is a show” isn’t present.

The agreement presented by theme parks to guests is “This is real.” If the agreement were anything else, every single meet and greet would have no line and every single show would be empty. The way theme parks, including Universal, presents those things is “Come meet Scooby Doo,” “Come see the Terminator.” It isn’t “Come meet the college kid who wears a costume for your entertainment.”

Disney is fully bought into their agreement. The problem (my issue) with Universal is that they’ve tried to play it both ways for too long. They need to pick an agreement: “This is real” so we won’t acknowledge the people behind the masks, or “This is a show,” so we’ll adjust our offerings accordingly.

This is where I agree with you. There is a difference in appreciating the actors work, finding that their performing something else of interest and deciding to watch that because they're a "good actor" and seeking out that actor just to see THEM with little or no interest in the role they're playing.

I think it's worth looking at the other side of this situation. EVERY fandom creates followings. This isn't unique to theme parks. I think some of what we're calling creepy would be considered perfectly normal in other fandoms, and maybe it shouldn't be and/or maybe we're taking things a little too far here. For example for the vast majority of the population if they were walking down a public street and saw their favorite celebrity, actor, musician, athlete etc. most would uncontrollably want to meet them and ask for a photo and compliment their work. If someone did this with Erin in lets say the Magic Kingdom most of us would be extremely creeped out by this. The question is why, and why not when it's not when it's a "true" celebrity. I think a large part of this is because the overwhelming majority don't see these fandoms as mainstream and normal. It's definitely more of a niche thing. Much like Star Trek fans being called geeks I think to some degree we're judging the people who are the fans and not the fandom itself. In a sense when this is acted on it really becomes more of a bullying type thing because these people aren't "normal". Now don't get me wrong as a Bill and Ted and theme park fan I've seen way more than a fair share of things that creeped me out. It's also worth pointing out most people don't get into acting saying "I want to be anonymous and don't want anyone to know who I really am". Personally I draw the line at delving into their personal lives. If there's an actor I like I will occasionally meet them compliment their work get one photo that sort of thing and if they perform another role that interest me I might be more inclined to check it out. I think with the theme park actors they are way more accessible and so some people see the very real potential that they could become friends with that person. That's when things get a little out of hand. For me as long as someone isn't crossing that line I'll just cringe on the inside and appreciate that they are enjoying themselves. I think everyone is far more creepy than they realize, if you don't believe me think of your favorite actor, musician, athlete etc. and think about how much you know about their personal life.

Here, I’d argue that actively seeking “celebrities” out in their everyday lives is creepy regardless of fandom. Finding out a famous person frequents a particular Cracker Barrel and then a fan going to that Cracker Barrel every day to see them, meet them, and “develop a relationship with” them is creepy (I had a friend do that, and I didn’t like it). Catching wind a famous person is staying at a particular hotel for vacation, going to that hotel for expressed purpose of “meeting” them, and then berating them when they ignore you is creepy (Finn Wolfhard). These are people actively going out of their way to encroach on the lives of people they idolize. Regardless of fandom, I don’t think it’s cool.

It’s one thing when they’re at a convention or doing a stage door exit or autograph line. They are choosing to be accessible. It’s one thing when you just randomly have easy access if it’s done maturely.

I was at Winter Park Village seeing a movie one night when Marcin Gortat, who played for the Orlando Magic at the time, came in and sat down in the row in front of me. He was in arm’s reach. Since the Magic were a playoff team at the time, I reached over, tapped him on the shoulder, said “You’re playing great. Good luck in the playoffs,” and shook his hand. No pictures. No requests for autographs. That’s not what he was there for. But I wanted to acknowledge to him that I like him, his performances, and wish him well. I like to think I did it respectfully.

The movie ended, and before the credits hit the screen, he was up and out the door. Five or six guys from a few rows behind us were literally sprinting after him.

I don’t know much about my favorite people’s personal lives. Maybe that’s just me. I might know which celebrity is dating who, but perusing entertainment news headlines will give me that. And you’re right, people don’t go into those fields without some desire for celebrity. That doesn’t mean the fans have any sort of ownership over them. I’m friends with several Disney face characters, one of the Brides of Frankenstein from Beetlejuice, and I know Brooklyn Prince’s (child star of The Florida Project) parents pretty well. They’re people. When they’re not on stage, they’re not thinking about being famous. They’re thinking about finances, what to make for dinner, and where the nearest bathroom is.

What we’re seeing though is a increasing group of people who are completely ignoring that line. Regardless of fandom, I don’t like it at all.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Most of those “gifts” end up in the trash.

People really do not get the concept that CMs and TMs are paid to be nice.

“Everyone is so nice here!”

Ahem..

“Everyone is paid to tolerate your BS and act like you aren’t annoying no matter how many other sides of the street they’d walk on to avoid casual social contact with you in the real world.”

Sometimes you do make a genuine connection with a worker. But it’s rare considering the sheer number of interactions they have. And everyone in life does dumb or annoying things - you have at one point thoroughly pissed off a CM/TM and beeb their horror story in the break room.

Some people fail to realize that whole reality of the situation and these are the people for whom the rabbit hole ends up going too deep.

 

[s8film40]

I can understand this point. I think it’s a difference of Granny Smith and Red Delicious apples; they’re both performances but still different.

In traditional theater, the acknowledgement of performers is presented at the outset. You are given a playbill, there’s a performer board, and (for certain performers) it’s advertised as a way to draw attendees. It’s part of the agreement going in. That’s not done in theme parks or amusement parks. At all. Period. Anywhere. You can’t find official “Cast List” at guest relations or on the website. When these performers address the media or guests, they do it as their characters. The agreement that “I’m a performer and this is a show” isn’t present.

The agreement presented by theme parks to guests is “This is real.” If the agreement were anything else, every single meet and greet would have no line and every single show would be empty. The way theme parks, including Universal, presents those things is “Come meet Scooby Doo,” “Come see the Terminator.” It isn’t “Come meet the college kid who wears a costume for your entertainment.”

Disney is fully bought into their agreement. The problem (my issue) with Universal is that they’ve tried to play it both ways for too long. They need to pick an agreement: “This is real” so we won’t acknowledge the people behind the masks, or “This is a show,” so we’ll adjust our offerings accordingly.

I think Bill and Ted and a few select other things to me seem to rise above the traditional theme park show. I appreciate that Universal allows to a small degree for these actors in some of these cases to be acknowledged in a more traditional way. I think my point is they seem to be able to see it for what it is and ease up on the traditional theme park approach when it doesn't quite fi as well. It is something that should be approached on a case by case basis and they've done a pretty decent job of it. I absolutely love theming especially immersive theming, but it can be taken too far in some cases.

Here, I’d argue that actively seeking “celebrities” out in their everyday lives is creepy regardless of fandom. Finding out a famous person frequents a particular Cracker Barrel and then a fan going to that Cracker Barrel every day to see them, meet them, and “develop a relationship with” them is creepy (I had a friend do that, and I didn’t like it). Catching wind a famous person is staying at a particular hotel for vacation, going to that hotel for expressed purpose of “meeting” them, and then berating them when they ignore you is creepy (Finn Wolfhard). These are people actively going out of their way to encroach on the lives of people they idolize. Regardless of fandom, I don’t think it’s cool.

It’s one thing when they’re at a convention or doing a stage door exit or autograph line. They are choosing to be accessible. It’s one thing when you just randomly have easy access if it’s done maturely.

I was at Winter Park Village seeing a movie one night when Marcin Gortat, who played for the Orlando Magic at the time, came in and sat down in the row in front of me. He was in arm’s reach. Since the Magic were a playoff team at the time, I reached over, tapped him on the shoulder, said “You’re playing great. Good luck in the playoffs,” and shook his hand. No pictures. No requests for autographs. That’s not what he was there for. But I wanted to acknowledge to him that I like him, his performances, and wish him well. I like to think I did it respectfully.

The movie ended, and before the credits hit the screen, he was up and out the door. Five or six guys from a few rows behind us were literally sprinting after him.

I don’t know much about my favorite people’s personal lives. Maybe that’s just me. I might know which celebrity is dating who, but perusing entertainment news headlines will give me that. And you’re right, people don’t go into those fields without some desire for celebrity. That doesn’t mean the fans have any sort of ownership over them. I’m friends with several Disney face characters, one of the Brides of Frankenstein from Beetlejuice, and I know Brooklyn Prince’s (child star of The Florida Project) parents pretty well. They’re people. When they’re not on stage, they’re not thinking about being famous. They’re thinking about finances, what to make for dinner, and where the nearest bathroom is.

What we’re seeing though is a increasing group of people who are completely ignoring that line. Regardless of fandom, I don’t like it at all.

Totally agree with this! I think that was part of what I was trying to point out is this behavior exist just as much, even more so outside of theme parks as well.

Most of those “gifts” end up in the trash.

People really do not get the concept that CMs and TMs are paid to be nice.

Yep. Funny side story I got a real nice looking card with a red and gold Asian design from a wedding party once. Didn't think anything of it and put it on my refrigerator. A couple years later I was moving and took it off and was probably about to throw it away and realized there was cash inside. It was a tip and I never realized it!

 

[King_K.]

That’s not done in theme parks or amusement parks. At all. Period. Anywhere. You can’t find official “Cast List” at guest relations or on the website. When these performers address the media or guests, they do it as their characters. The agreement that “I’m a performer and this is a show” isn’t present.

I agree with everything you mentioned, but USH does have cast postings available for Waterworld.

 

[Mad Dog]

Just so the 'crazy' fans don't get too involved with the Raptor M&G. The Raptor might eat them, as Raptors are wont to do.