Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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Oh, I agree he 100% will be back as a force-ghost. I just think it would've made for a more powerful ending for Kylo, which I think is more important going forward as Kylo is a vital character to the current trilogy whereas Luke is seen more-so just as a legend in this trilogy.
I feel like I should fear Kylo and that I should see him as a total badass going into Episode 9. Right now, after 2 full movies, I sort of see him as a wannabe bad guy that's still semi-conflicted. His only motivation at this point is to get rid of everything that is connected to him and that came before him as evidenced by the line he says to Rey: "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I feel like I should fear Kylo and that I should see him as a total badass going into Episode 9. Right now, after 2 full movies, I sort of see him as a wannabe bad guy that's still semi-conflicted. His only motivation at this point is to get rid of everything that is connected to him and that came before him as evidenced by the line he says to Rey: "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
This guy gets it (why audience scores on RT are so low compared to critic score). Don't watch if you haven't seen the movie yet:
And this article is a good read about the disparity between critic score and audience score on RT. Some of it has to do with FB groups creating fake accounts and constantly downvoting, but other fans were sort of given permission to crap all over the film by Luke Skywalker himself when Hamill said he didn't agree with Rian Johnson's vision for the character.
Just How Seriously Should We Take This Star Wars: The Last Jedi Backlash? | Vanity Fair
And this article is a good read about the disparity between critic score and audience score on RT. Some of it has to do with FB groups creating fake accounts and constantly downvoting, but other fans were sort of given permission to crap all over the film by Luke Skywalker himself when Hamill said he didn't agree with Rian Johnson's vision for the character.
Just How Seriously Should We Take This Star Wars: The Last Jedi Backlash? | Vanity Fair
That's a one sided type of article. He even noted he is not a major fan... And that's the whole point here. We are dealing with 2 different type of fans and 3 generations. One side rates by the amount of pew, pews, and the other side rates it by the depth of the plot. So yes! This is a great action movie and I bet it felt like Christmas, but for people like me that are following the plot that started on Episode I (yes, I do like the prequels. Issues? Yeah but vital to the saga) this movie just disrespected the main storyline, it's true meaning (Yin-Yang), and just the human, almost spiritual side of it. As dumb that might sound to some, still a fact. While some get goosebumps with the battle of Hoth, I'm getting goosebumps by Yoda's words in Dagobah. That's doesn't make me a better fan. It only says that even SW needs to find a balance between the action and the heart.... Unfortunately Rian took the heart put it on a blender and flush it down the toilet. He even disrespected JJs TFA, so at this point what's the point of 9. This movie brought main story to a complete stall and what was left of the plot, I personally down care for. Not even Rey, or her future. So that's that, but for the pew pew fans, I think the movie has plenty of action, adventure, great visuals, go watch it right now, you'll love it.
Look, I recognize that TLJ has quite a few flaws, but it's still a solid movie for the most part, despite my issues with it. Yeah i've brought up a lot of things here myself, but most of those are just nit-picking. The major thing that could've made this movie better was fixing the pacing in the second act.
I just think a lot of fans had an idea of what this film was going to be like and when Rian took it in a completely different direction, it sort of rubbed them the wrong way. It made it so you didn't know how to react almost. This was why a second viewing really helped me process the movie better. I came out of it on Thursday night almost stunned, I couldn't describe what I felt because the good parts were GREAT, but there were still quite a few parts I didn't like, yet I didn't fully understand WHY I didn't like them.
- Mar 25, 2010
- 719
- 521
That video is just plain offensive. "If you don't like it you are an unbalanced fanatic". I'd certainly consider myself a fan of Star Wars, But I'm not going to a fan convention or anything. I have a shirt or two, and a few star wars desk ornaments that were gifts. I read a couple of the novels as a kid. I probably lean on the more hardcore side of "casual".
Forgive me for not taking the time to write a more serious review previously, but allow me to strike down this budding narrative that everyone that doesn't like this movie is a crazy.
As a cinephile I am tired of a recent trend in TV programming where we are expected to hold on to nothing established in previous episodes. In some cases it works, but as of late it seems it's used to cover up bad storytelling and to retcon problems out of a series. It doesn't always work.
The film is beautifully shot. The technical bar is really high, as you would expect from a Disney/Lucasfilm production. I will ignore all those things for the review.
Star Wars is a vast universe spanning 8 films and a few TV Series. As I consider myself a fan, my expectations are simply the story continues on from the previous installments of film. This film has some powerful moments and some great storytelling in there somewhere, but It also has a ton of narrative problems and a few pacing issues. I think, the films biggest problem is it does away with a lot of established lore, and reaches in places just cause... And to mess with people.
As a cinephile, I'm not naive to when a film is messing with the audience members who are particularly invested in a franchise or a sequel. I'm 85% certain we got that Leia scene, just because of the Mary Sue arguments against Rey... And it's a real smart slap in the face because it can be explained away with one word, "Skywalker"... My problem is when that is expanded upon further into the plot. When I look at the whole of TLJ, it seems Mr. Johnson was entirely committed to help deliver a film that pissed off and messed with the whole Anti-SJW crowd and all the Alt-righters etc. I'm personally fine with that... But it comes off a little tone deaf to the cause when you take the two main POC characters and have them run off together on a side mission that goes nowhere, and introduce a lapse in the budding romance between Rey and Finn. Not to mention, Rose is a fairly weak character. Her Arc exist only to show Finn why the resistance is a resistance. Something he had more or less figured out when he decided to sacrifice himself to attempt to destroy the battering ram laser. Without Finn and Rose in the film, The story could have still advanced exactly the way it did. They had a plot of zero consequence, other than to deliver a couple of action scenes... And introduce a fairly weak romance.
Luke. I get it's in vogue to be a smarty who explains away anything by putting yourself above someone. That's fine I suppose. We all realize this character was always going to fade away and disappear from some robes eventually, It was inevitable. But the headline, "Mark Hamill gave superfans the ability to dislike TLJ"... That sounds like someone at Disney coming up with a creative spin on the negative press. Luke Skywalker being an unrelenting hero and believer in the force, who fought against all odds over the span of 3 films is reintroduced as a weak old man who has blocked himself off from the force and tried to kill a student... I disagree fundamentally with the direction they took with Luke. I can "understand" what they were doing and what they did, but sometimes some things are better left unshaken. Unfortunately the direction they took with Luke also serves to further undermine the plot...
Snoke. They treated him as a complete throw away villain, like much of the villains in the MCU, Just as he was showing us why he's "The" big bad, they kill him. Snoke + Luke's failure is underlined as the turning point for Kylo Ren. By throwing away Snoke, even by the hand of Ren, and failing to explain or show just how Snoke was important to Ren being turned, were left with a major plot point explained in a few lines of dialogue. Ren's turn towards the being the big, big bad is undermined by him ultimately being a victim of circumstance who has been manipulated towards the dark side. They showed us in the first 30 minutes of the film he was conflicted when he did not kill Leia (They also showed us this in TFA when he hesitated to kill Solo), Then all of a sudden, he's "Let the past die". Make up your mind, and clarify the plot points. Snoke and Ren's part of the story is a mess, and unfortunately it creates problems with Luke's.
There are more problems with the film. "We only have 18 hours of fuel, though Rey has spent days with skywalker". For the life of me the Leia resurrection scene. She survived an explosion and getting sucked out into space... Jesus. I was actually shocked that her death was being played with in the first place. And unfortunately the movie could have gone on without her at that point too, and her living
Overall, I'm highly disappointed with the film. It goes off and does it's own thing without much respect to the franchise. The franchise and previous films are why I purchased a ticket in the first place, and the fans are the one who drive the mania behind the franchise. I didn't want a rehash of previous films. Rey, Kylo, Finn and what they bring to the table, and the story established in TFA is different enough for me already. We are already charting new territory. Let's calm it down and focus on diving deep into the story of the individual characters, and lets not waste established plot strings for shock value.
I rate the move 4 out of 10.
I rank the movie on list of Franchise Films:
1. A New Hope
2.Empire Strikes Back
3.The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. The Last Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
8.Attack of the Clones
The film is beautifully shot. The technical bar is really high, as you would expect from a Disney/Lucasfilm production. I will ignore all those things for the review.
Star Wars is a vast universe spanning 8 films and a few TV Series. As I consider myself a fan, my expectations are simply the story continues on from the previous installments of film. This film has some powerful moments and some great storytelling in there somewhere, but It also has a ton of narrative problems and a few pacing issues. I think, the films biggest problem is it does away with a lot of established lore, and reaches in places just cause... And to mess with people.
As a cinephile, I'm not naive to when a film is messing with the audience members who are particularly invested in a franchise or a sequel. I'm 85% certain we got that Leia scene, just because of the Mary Sue arguments against Rey... And it's a real smart slap in the face because it can be explained away with one word, "Skywalker"... My problem is when that is expanded upon further into the plot. When I look at the whole of TLJ, it seems Mr. Johnson was entirely committed to help deliver a film that pissed off and messed with the whole Anti-SJW crowd and all the Alt-righters etc. I'm personally fine with that... But it comes off a little tone deaf to the cause when you take the two main POC characters and have them run off together on a side mission that goes nowhere, and introduce a lapse in the budding romance between Rey and Finn. Not to mention, Rose is a fairly weak character. Her Arc exist only to show Finn why the resistance is a resistance. Something he had more or less figured out when he decided to sacrifice himself to attempt to destroy the battering ram laser. Without Finn and Rose in the film, The story could have still advanced exactly the way it did. They had a plot of zero consequence, other than to deliver a couple of action scenes... And introduce a fairly weak romance.
Luke. I get it's in vogue to be a smarty who explains away anything by putting yourself above someone. That's fine I suppose. We all realize this character was always going to fade away and disappear from some robes eventually, It was inevitable. But the headline, "Mark Hamill gave superfans the ability to dislike TLJ"... That sounds like someone at Disney coming up with a creative spin on the negative press. Luke Skywalker being an unrelenting hero and believer in the force, who fought against all odds over the span of 3 films is reintroduced as a weak old man who has blocked himself off from the force and tried to kill a student... I disagree fundamentally with the direction they took with Luke. I can "understand" what they were doing and what they did, but sometimes some things are better left unshaken. Unfortunately the direction they took with Luke also serves to further undermine the plot...
Snoke. They treated him as a complete throw away villain, like much of the villains in the MCU, Just as he was showing us why he's "The" big bad, they kill him. Snoke + Luke's failure is underlined as the turning point for Kylo Ren. By throwing away Snoke, even by the hand of Ren, and failing to explain or show just how Snoke was important to Ren being turned, were left with a major plot point explained in a few lines of dialogue. Ren's turn towards the being the big, big bad is undermined by him ultimately being a victim of circumstance who has been manipulated towards the dark side. They showed us in the first 30 minutes of the film he was conflicted when he did not kill Leia (They also showed us this in TFA when he hesitated to kill Solo), Then all of a sudden, he's "Let the past die". Make up your mind, and clarify the plot points. Snoke and Ren's part of the story is a mess, and unfortunately it creates problems with Luke's.
There are more problems with the film. "We only have 18 hours of fuel, though Rey has spent days with skywalker". For the life of me the Leia resurrection scene. She survived an explosion and getting sucked out into space... Jesus. I was actually shocked that her death was being played with in the first place. And unfortunately the movie could have gone on without her at that point too, and her living
Overall, I'm highly disappointed with the film. It goes off and does it's own thing without much respect to the franchise. The franchise and previous films are why I purchased a ticket in the first place, and the fans are the one who drive the mania behind the franchise. I didn't want a rehash of previous films. Rey, Kylo, Finn and what they bring to the table, and the story established in TFA is different enough for me already. We are already charting new territory. Let's calm it down and focus on diving deep into the story of the individual characters, and lets not waste established plot strings for shock value.
I rate the move 4 out of 10.
I rank the movie on list of Franchise Films:
1. A New Hope
2.Empire Strikes Back
3.The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. The Last Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
8.Attack of the Clones
Went to see it again, and my opinion of the film remains the same. Actually seeing it again,I really realized how awful the dialogue was. They are literally explaining what they are about to do when they could actually be doing it. Also, Rian Johnson didn't hide the merch marketing in the film (Porgs and crystal foxes) well. I was trying to find a point to them and literally they add nothing to the story whatsoever than being cute.
That's pretty much true true about the merch stuff, but at the same time they didn't detract from the film either. People were worried about them being the second coming of Jar-Jar Binks. They weren't Ewok bad either. Both were harmless. There wasn't an articulated reason for them, but they added to both Achtoo and Crait, making the planets feel like there is other life forms besides just the Resistance or First Order.
Obviously they were there to sell plushes, but they were integrated in a way that wasn't distracting at all.
- Jul 14, 2015
- 1,592
- 2,573
Porgs are probably some of the least sinful "cutesy Star Wars marketing characters" in the series. The take up like, two whole minutes of screen time.
I keep hearing this, but the obvious retort is Chekov's Gun. If you introduce a gun in Act 1, it better damn sure go off in Act 3, or you best have a remarkable explantion why it doesn't.
Abrams set up his "mystery boxes" in TFA. He now seems to admit he had no idea what would go in them, so Johnson basically tossed them and pretends they were never there to begin with. That's fatally flawed storytelling. No matter how pretty the movie was--and I really liked the look of
the Ming the Merciless throne room and the final battle on Planet Salt
Also, everyone so glad Disney acquired Fox so we can get the original versions again.
What was Luke's planet other than an even bigger collection of random CGI animals parading across the screen than Tattooine?
Exactly. While this movie may stand on its own compared to other films, it's still part of a saga. It doesn't need to follow the same tropes, beats, etc - but it still needs to answer whatever took place in each film.
I just keep checking YouTube to see what the Red Letter Media folks have to say about this 
I just keep checking YouTube to see what the Red Letter Media folks have to say about this
Maybe he is still confused and conflicted like me. I'm still in shock and trying to process what happened. Lol
- Apr 7, 2010
- 5,268
- 5,725
I thought it was great, but I see the majority on this board are in the other camp. This movie didn’t “ruin” any legacy to me. It purposely deconstructed it, which I understand hurts some feelings, but I actually found it refreshing.
A lot of people criticized Force Awakens for being too similar, now they create something different and everyone citircizes it for “breaking the rules, assaniating characters, etc”
I just don’t think some people will ever be happy.
Also, my daughter loved the Porgs, Snow Foxes, and the chocobos. So while you may find it all about marketing, it’s actually more about making this more enjoyable for a younger audience.
It’s a pretty dark film otherwise.
A lot of people criticized Force Awakens for being too similar, now they create something different and everyone citircizes it for “breaking the rules, assaniating characters, etc”
I just don’t think some people will ever be happy.
Also, my daughter loved the Porgs, Snow Foxes, and the chocobos. So while you may find it all about marketing, it’s actually more about making this more enjoyable for a younger audience.
It’s a pretty dark film otherwise.
I get where you guys are coming from. I do think this is the issue with having multiple directors involved with the same trilogy. George Lucas directed all six prior Star Wars movies to TFA and, even as bad as the prequels were, the story was solid and made sense within the lore.
Once you start a new trilogy, they really should've picked a director - JJ, Rian, whoever - and given that person the whole trilogy. JJ and Rian's vision of the trilogy and characters was clearly very different from each other. JJ will get 2 of the 3 movies, but it will be broken up by a movie that does mess with his original work a bit and now he has to work to sow it back together. I do think some of those mystery boxes are salvageable, though.
things i didnt like about it
Finns role was a big nothing burger
Kylo Ren still comes across as a total wuss to me
Luke comes across as some weird old dude
If Leia can save herself in space why couldnt palpatine save himself when Vador threw him to his death
things i liked
Rey's story
for whats its worth ive seen every star wars movie in the theater but i wouldnt consider myself a huge fan
Finns role was a big nothing burger
Kylo Ren still comes across as a total wuss to me
Luke comes across as some weird old dude
If Leia can save herself in space why couldnt palpatine save himself when Vador threw him to his death
things i liked
Rey's story
for whats its worth ive seen every star wars movie in the theater but i wouldnt consider myself a huge fan
Something hit me in the face that I didn't realize until a video pointed it out.
I never put much thought into what "The Force Awakens" actually meant. But what if it meant that something was changing with the force as we know it? That it was...awakening...not just in Rey, but across the galaxy. Like the little boy at the end of the film. Was Rey being a force whielding nobody an RJ swerve, or a purposeful direction from day 1 that nobody ever bothered to realize?
I mean, if you're going to keep churning these things out you have to move on from the Skywalker clan at some point. It makes a lot of sense franchise wise to make the force something a lot more achievable to everyone, regardless of bloodline.
I don't know, maybe this is the Star Wars we need right now. One that says you don't need to be special to stand up for what's right.
Yeah this doesn't explain Snoke, but like I said pure evil is boring anyway
I mean, if you're going to keep churning these things out you have to move on from the Skywalker clan at some point. It makes a lot of sense franchise wise to make the force something a lot more achievable to everyone, regardless of bloodline.
I don't know, maybe this is the Star Wars we need right now. One that says you don't need to be special to stand up for what's right.
Yeah this doesn't explain Snoke, but like I said pure evil is boring anyway
This movie is an example of why a story needs to have 1 voice in creation. I have zero interest in a Harry Potter story not told by JK, a Hobbit story not told by Tolkien, a Godfather movie not directed by Coppola, etc. Once many voices tell the story, the story will necessarily change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, but the change alone means the story will not be complete. Directors can change, as that is a style choice, but the basic writing/story needs to be of 1 voice.
My greatest fear as a Stephen King fan was when he almost died before completing the Dark Tower series. Someone would have eventually picked up the pieces if he had, but the story would not have been the same. Regardless of whether I liked where he took the story, it was HIS to tell.
I am sure Rian ran his ideas past JJ, but from the interviews I have seen this week, it seems most of the big ideas were all his, now others need to tell a story they may not have wished to tell, being dealt these cards.
My greatest fear as a Stephen King fan was when he almost died before completing the Dark Tower series. Someone would have eventually picked up the pieces if he had, but the story would not have been the same. Regardless of whether I liked where he took the story, it was HIS to tell.
I am sure Rian ran his ideas past JJ, but from the interviews I have seen this week, it seems most of the big ideas were all his, now others need to tell a story they may not have wished to tell, being dealt these cards.
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