Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Happytycho]

Does anyone have an estimate of how quickly Universal could acquire and clean up the remaining Stan Thomas foreclosure land if they wanted to develop one of the parcels right away?

 

[zg44]

Speaking hypothetically because Lockheed may never decide to move. Do you think Uni will design the south property in a way that could seamlessly integrate the Lockheed property if they were to acquire it?

Yeah, I think they'll plan on that. I can't imagine Universal letting anybody else get the main Lockheed plant (340 acres) if they ever decide to leave.

So I'd assume that they'll leave themselves ways of connecting the Lockheed land to the south resort naturally.

Does anyone have an estimate of how quickly Universal could acquire and clean up the remaining Stan Thomas foreclosure land if they wanted to develop one of the parcels right away?

It sounds like most of the cleanup was already done pre-2004, but that there's just environmental checks (making sure quantities of metals isn't above limits, etc.) that need to be done.

So I'd assume that those lands could be ready to build in under 1-2 years.

 

[UniversalCityFL]

So #blessed to be alive when people are throwing around the notion of Uni buying even more land on top of the buttload they recently purchased.

I come from the dark ages of the early 2000's when, after Vivendi sold off the Lockheed land, future expansion was completely and totally ruled out.

It's a one-in-a-million chance that the resort would get rich again, and land would become available again for an affordable price. Truly unbelievable.

 

[zg44]

So #blessed to be alive when people are throwing around the notion of Uni buying even more land on top of the shitload they recently purchased.

I come from the dark ages of the early 2000's when, after Vivendi sold off the Lockheed land, future expansion was completely and totally ruled out.

It's a one-in-a-million chance that the resort would get rich again, and land would become available again for an affordable price. Truly unbelievable.

Yeah, it's astonishing when you consider all the factors at play here over the past 20 years:

1) The land had to be available and the main ~560 acres untouched more than 12-15 years after the initial sale. That basically required the buyer to be a real estate developer that loaded up on debt fueled projects around the US and ran out of money to develop the land resulting in a bankruptcy sale - enter Stan Thomas.

2) The resort needed much higher earnings power to justify any sort of expansion, literally attendance had to be doubled from the average over the 00s decade - enter Harry Potter.

3) Needed a cash rich owner willing to keep Universal's theme park division as well as buying back Blackstone's 50% of UOR and being willing to buy back the land and invest potentially billions more into it - enter Comcast.


The fact that those 3 things all happened is kind of remarkable; any 1 of them not happening would have made the whole issue moot. i.e. If the land was already built on or sold in parcels to be built to others, there's probably not enough land left to build a 2nd resort.

Or if there's no Harry Potter, then it's unlikely the parent corporation would be incentivized to keep and invest in the parks (Comcast originally mentioned selling the theme parks off back in 2009 when they made the GE deal for 51% of NBCU because they were seen as lower growth assets in the pre-Harry Potter/pre-cord cutting era).

Or if there's no Comcast to take over NBCU, there's not likely to be another cash rich owner that could have stepped in to take Blackstone's stake and invest the billions needed over the 2011-2025 period.

 

[Mad Dog]

Yeah, it's astonishing when you consider all the factors at play here over the past 20 years:

1) The land had to be available and the main ~560 acres untouched more than 12-15 years after the initial sale. That basically required the buyer to be a real estate developer that loaded up on debt fueled projects around the US and ran out of money to develop the land resulting in a bankruptcy sale - enter Stan Thomas.

2) The resort needed much higher earnings power to justify any sort of expansion, literally attendance had to be doubled from the average over the 00s decade - enter Harry Potter.

3) Needed a cash rich owner willing to keep Universal's theme park division as well as buying back Blackstone's 50% of UOR and being willing to buy back the land and invest potentially billions more into it - enter Comcast.


The fact that those 3 things all happened is kind of remarkable; any 1 of them not happening would have made the whole issue moot. i.e. If the land was already built on or sold in parcels to be built to others, there's probably not enough land left to build a 2nd resort.

Or if there's no Harry Potter, then it's unlikely the parent corporation would be incentivized to keep and invest in the parks (Comcast originally mentioned selling the theme parks off back in 2009 when they made the GE deal for 51% of NBCU because they were seen as lower growth assets in the pre-Harry Potter/pre-cord cutting era).

Or if there's no Comcast to take over NBCU, there's not likely to be another cash rich owner that could have stepped in to take Blackstone's stake and invest the billions needed over the 2011-2025 period.

A perfect alignment of the celestial bodies. :thumbsup:

 

[AlexanderMBush]

:ban:

So #blessed to be alive when people are throwing around the notion of Uni buying even more land on top of the shitload they recently purchased.

I come from the dark ages of the early 2000's when, after Vivendi sold off the Lockheed land, future expansion was completely and totally ruled out.

It's a one-in-a-million chance that the resort would get rich again, and land would become available again for an affordable price. Truly unbelievable.

It's crazy, to see the level of growth for UPR. Especially on a domestic level, it's highly impressive to see Universal this committed for the two coasts. And this, is huge just on the Orlando merits..

 

[quinnmac000]

TPI put out an article about how great Universal is because people can walk to everything compared to all the other parks creating a stronger sense of immersion. If Universal does buses, do you think they will do something like this to create an new sense of immersion?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

TPI put out an article about how great Universal is because people can walk to everything compared to all the other parks creating a stronger sense of immersion. If Universal does buses, do you think they will do something like this to create an new sense of immersion?

I'd say they do that if they can use the screens for advertisements instead lol.

 

[nickwilde]

TPI put out an article about how great Universal is because people can walk to everything compared to all the other parks creating a stronger sense of immersion. If Universal does buses, do you think they will do something like this to create an new sense of immersion?

That's why I think it's super, super likely Universal doesn't do buses. Especially not down Universal Blvd, filled with other attractions... imagine, "Mommy! I want to go on the big ferris wheel! Look at the giant roller coaster! WOW, TOPGOLF WTF GET ME OUT OF THIS BUS WHY DOESN'T IT STOP"

Which then leads us to the fact that Universal will be building a fixed link to escape traffic/distractions. So I'm really excited to see how they do that part, moreso than the park itself.

Also, while we're talking about land, why the didn't they get the Top Golf land/ Ripley's/ those new apartments? It seems like they will really be hamstrung by a few developments in the wrong place. Especially new apartments *that* close to their potential parks/fireworks/whatever annoying noise stuff...

 

[Happytycho]

That's why I think it's super, super likely Universal doesn't do buses. Especially not down Universal Blvd, filled with other attractions... imagine, "Mommy! I want to go on the big ferris wheel! Look at the giant roller coaster! WOW, TOPGOLF WTF GET ME OUT OF THIS BUS WHY DOESN'T IT STOP"

Which then leads us to the fact that Universal will be building a fixed link to escape traffic/distractions. So I'm really excited to see how they do that part, moreso than the park itself.

Also, while we're talking about land, why the didn't they get the Top Golf land/ Ripley's/ those new apartments? It seems like they will really be hamstrung by a few developments in the wrong place. Especially new apartments *that* close to their potential parks/fireworks/whatever annoying noise stuff...

I've been feeling really conflicted about the transportation issue.

On one hand, buses would be a super easy, simple, and cheap solution to the resort's transportation needs, while any sort of fixed path transit will require massive amounts of money to construct, will be fighting endless red tape to get approved, and will be a many year process to become usable by guests.

On the other hand, the efficiency and connectedness provided by a fixed path transportation system from one Citywalk to the other could be the entire difference between whether or not the new south resort produces the level of success that Comcast desires.

As for land, I don't think those various parcels were ever really being offered to Universal for purchase, and at the time they had no real reason get themselves into a bidding war for what were basically small, random, unconnected pieces of land. Obviously things are little bit different now, and I'm sure that Comcast would happily make an offer if anyone looks to sell. I also assume that someone isn't going to be too happy when they find out that Universal is building a 7+ level parking garage right next to their property line.

 

[TheDarkNiTe]

Another site recently mentioned that the master planning design work for the 4th Gate/South I-Drive resort complex was being done by an external firm, (as is the usual for big Universal projects,) and that it's a company Universal has worked with in the past.

Any chance that it's FORREC? They did the Hollywood section at USF, and Port of Entry at IOA, not to mention their continued work on Beijing?

Has anyone heard anything about who's working on this? Can't remember who did Volcano Bay, so that studio could be involved too?

 

[quinnmac000]

Another site recently mentioned that the master planning design work for the 4th Gate/South I-Drive resort complex was being done by an external firm, (as is the usual for big Universal projects,) and that it's a company Universal has worked with in the past.

Any chance that it's FORREC? They did the Hollywood section at USF, and Port of Entry at IOA, not to mention their continued work on Beijing?

Has anyone heard anything about who's working on this? Can't remember who did Volcano Bay, so that studio could be involved too?

I hope not....they kinda are weak on theme park design and mixed use entertainment spaces with nothing unique and out there (their designs lead to so much dead space and wide open spaces). And last I checked they didn't have input for USB just continued for USS.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I'm more curious how many more parcels won't be developed by Universal?

Seems to be more space for apartments and attractions alike

 

[Happytycho]

Another site recently mentioned that the master planning design work for the 4th Gate/South I-Drive resort complex was being done by an external firm, (as is the usual for big Universal projects,) and that it's a company Universal has worked with in the past.

Any chance that it's FORREC? They did the Hollywood section at USF, and Port of Entry at IOA, not to mention their continued work on Beijing?

Has anyone heard anything about who's working on this? Can't remember who did Volcano Bay, so that studio could be involved too?

After some googling, it appears that a firm named DTJ Design had at least something to do with volcano bay, and sapphire falls as well, but they don't make clear exactly what their role was.

I was also searching for IOA info as well, and came across the firm ima Design who claims to have been involved with both UOR parks, but again I can't really tell what they actually did in those projects.

 

[JungleSkip]

So I thought we had a thread about this, but I can't find it. For lack of a better space, I'm putting it here.

The list of projects Uni said they would be giving more info on this year at the beginning of the year:

• The previously-announced ride replacing Dragon Challenge in The Wizarding World of Harry Potter – Hogsmeade

• A̶n̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶a̶p̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶i̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶H̶o̶g̶w̶a̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶t̶l̶e̶

• Universal’s Cinematic Spectacular being replaced

• Something new going in where Terminator 2: 3D was

• A̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶v̶e̶n̶u̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶U̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶l̶ ̶C̶i̶t̶y̶W̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶E̶l̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶

• O̶u̶r̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶o̶t̶e̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶

• The continued global expansion of our partnership with Nintendo. Our sister park in Japan has already broken ground on Super Nintendo World; I’m sure you can’t wait to hear what’s next.

Now that the F&F opening it mercifully behind us and they didn't give an update on the nighttime show at the media event (for some ungodly reason), that has to be next considering it's opening in like 2 months.

After that the question is what's next: Potter coaster details or the Bourne show. The Bourne show isn't gonna make much of a splash, so I could also see them getting announced at the same time.

The biggest question of course, is Nintendo. It seems all but confirmed SNW is moving to Park 3. Will Uni just ignore that they said they'd be giving an update this year or will they announce the new development at the end of the year and say it will feature Mario and Co? Personally I think the former is more likely than the latter. Or maybe the rumors are true and they'll announce that KidZone is becoming Pokémon or LC is becoming Zelda this year.

 

[Alicia]

So I thought we had a thread about this, but I can't find it. For lack of a better space, I'm putting it here.

The list of projects Uni said they would be giving more info on this year at the beginning of the year:

• The previously-announced ride replacing Dragon Challenge in The Wizarding World of Harry Potter – Hogsmeade

• A̶n̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶a̶p̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶i̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶H̶o̶g̶w̶a̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶t̶l̶e̶

• Universal’s Cinematic Spectacular being replaced

• Something new going in where Terminator 2: 3D was

• A̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶v̶e̶n̶u̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶U̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶l̶ ̶C̶i̶t̶y̶W̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶E̶l̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶

• O̶u̶r̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶o̶t̶e̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶

• The continued global expansion of our partnership with Nintendo. Our sister park in Japan has already broken ground on Super Nintendo World; I’m sure you can’t wait to hear what’s next.

Now that the F&F opening it mercifully behind us and they didn't give an update on the nighttime show at the media event (for some ungodly reason), that has to be next considering it's opening in like 2 months.

After that the question is what's next: Potter coaster details or the Bourne show. The Bourne show isn't gonna make much of a splash, so I could also see them getting announced at the same time.

The biggest question of course, is Nintendo. It seems all but confirmed SNW is moving to Park 3. Will Uni just ignore that they said they'd be giving an update this year or will they announce the new development at the end of the year and say it will feature Mario and Co? Personally I think the former is more likely than the latter. Or maybe the rumors are true and they'll announce that KidZone is becoming Pokémon or LC is becoming Zelda this year.

I could see a big news drop the day Toy Story Land opens down the street. Whether Potter Coaster or SNW, or both, expect Universal to do what they can to dominate the news cycle that week.

 

[JungleSkip]

I could see a big news drop the day Toy Story Land opens down the street. Whether Potter Coaster or SNW, or both, expect Universal to do what they can to dominate the news cycle that week.

I could see that being the Potter coaster, maybe. I don't think we get any Nintendo stuff until the end of the year, at the earliest, if at all.

 

[Scott W.]

TPI put out an article about how great Universal is because people can walk to everything compared to all the other parks creating a stronger sense of immersion. If Universal does buses, do you think they will do something like this to create an new sense of immersion?

I agree, this is one of the reasons why I prefer DL to WDW and the same closeness works perfectly with IOA and USF and now the resorts and VB.

I think this idea was thrown about here a while ago when monorails were discussed. I'm not sure how much computing power would be required for something like this but I can't imagine it would be any where near as much as Disney is using for the Falcon ride plus the buses would be taking the same route about 99% of the time.

Maybe, the HE was just a prototype for something similar down the line.

For the hundreds of millions of dollars needed for a monorail, you'd be far cheaper buying a ton of buses with technology like this and all the fuel and driver costs that come with it plus it's dynamic and will better serve the spread out resorts.

 

[JungleSkip]

Good news everyone, the Chinese are paying for Park 3. #Clones

Bigger Than Disney: Budget Doubles for Universal’s Beijing Park - WSJ

 

[tielo]

There are cheaper options for light-rail then a monorail with concrete beams.
For instance a coaster track system like here proposed for a city in the Netherlands:

Or this thing:

Anyway I hope for something more exciting then a smelly bus.