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Thought I’d break some of this down by character rather than chronologically. Jump to the end if you want to skip the ramblings.

Daenerys — Suffered some of the biggest plot hole / plot armour issues, which initially made me feel pretty mad at this episode. Destroying the Iron Fleet in the space of mere minutes, where only last episode she flew over them without a word to say about it. Likewise sacking the entire defences of King’s Landing with a few breaths of fire, when the whole point of the first two dragons being killed was to introduce some tension because it might have evened up the fight? Weird choice. Overall I think her actions in the rest of the episode did make sense, but would have been much more understandable if there’d been a bit more breathing space in how long it took her to turn. All the things happened to justify her turning like this — losing Missandei, her dragons, claim to the throne etc — but it happened too quickly. That’s why when the episode went into full-blown callous civilian-killing, I initially felt like it was really motivated by a mere sick desire for carnage on the part of the writers, playing up to the brutality that GoT became famous for, rather than being motivated by her character (@Andysol this was the "pathetic" moment). But, on the other hand, I think overall by the end it just about qualified as ‘good’ uncomfortable rather than sick. I can see why some people think it’s a desertion of character for her to have gone full-on butcher and at the time of watching I agreed, but thinking more deeply it’s understandable that she would see the city’s surrender and not be able to stop herself feeling that Cersei hadn’t suffered enough yet. It was certainly moving. And, for the first time in a while, I felt EC’s acting was really noteworthy and very good. Final question — where the bloody hell did the Dothraki reappear from. I mean come on. They got butchered.

Cersei — Again very well acted by Lena. The death was a bit of a let-down perhaps, but again as with the Night King, I think almost anything would have been a let-down after the years of build-up. Realistically some fans would only have been satisfied if she’d been gratuitously tortured, but apart from maybe Daenerys this would have been a huge mistake to write for anyone else.

Euron and Jaime — Euron turned out a bit wet and useless didn’t he? Wasn’t mad about his end but it did slightly smack of the convenient washing-up-right-where-we-want-you-to as with the attack on Dany’s fleet, when he got blown to kingdom come by dragon fire and happened to turn up at Jaime’s feet. Jaime’s death I wasn’t that fussed about, bit of a shame, but I think most people will have been distracted by being mad about Cersei so they’ll get away with it.

Arya — Actually well handled I thought. I was worried that her end would be an issue because when she went after Cersei, I thought the only options were for her to be the one to end Cersei (predictable and unsatisfying) or get killed trying (also unsatisfying). The sequence with her seeing the very real effects of Dany’s attack was very effective and one of my favourite parts, and the visual echo of her trying to escape King’s Landing way back in the day was poignant and very neat. The horse was questionable at best but by this point it was kind of the least of several evils so let’s go with it.

Jon — Had a good episode for finally being allowed out of his “You are my queen” schtick. I was also glad they gave him the beat saving the civilian lady from the soldier abducting her before the writers fell into another really-not-ok set piece of gratuitousness, which I thought it was heading for.


Overall I did enjoy this episode — a lot of it genuinely did have me holding my breath. And, it goes without saying the production and cinematography were awe-inspiring and genuinely incredible (the redesign of King’s Landing made more sense this episode and both the wide shots and the closeup ground-level set design were excellent). There were moments I thought it was going really, really wrong — but it just about avoided completely falling into those major traps for the most part. The plot holes early on perhaps set me off on the wrong foot for viewing it sympathetically, but I’m inclined to agree with @rhino4evr that overall the ‘shock’ moments that people didn’t necessarily want were good for keeping it fresh rather than being ‘disappointments’. And this also speaks to something wider: it’s easy to be unpredictable and in character at an early stage of shows like GoT, but gets progressively harder when people think they know more about the characters so in a sense the unpredictable becomes predictable, and it’s much harder to tread the line between surprise and being true to character.
 
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I'm on the fence for this one, I enjoyed the spectacle, it was visually stunning at times but I do have some gripes with it...

1) Varys - The very best secret keeper in Westeros gets caught by the unsullied, seems unlikely to me.
2) Arya - Almost her entire story arc has led to revenge on Cersei and when she comes to the final hurdle, she just takes Clegane's advice and abandons her destiny on a 15 second conversation? Doesn't feel like that's the Arya we've seen for the last 5 years.
3) Jaime/Euron - 'Hey Kingslayer'... Oh come on, what are the chances of him being there, lazy storytelling.
4) Cersei/Jaime death - I'm a bit torn on this, I really wanted someone to kill her to have that satisfaction, but I can see why they did it and teasing that Jaime face turn for so long worked well, he was always a Lannister at heart.
5) Cleganebowl - By the time this showdown happened there was no future consequence for either loser so it meant nothing and I couldn't be emotionally invested in it.

I don't want to be too negative as I did enjoy the episode but there were some things I couldn't look past. If just feels like they don't have enough time to tell the story they want to and I'd rather they approached this series with x10 60 minute episodes.
 
Good synopsis
Daenerys — Suffered some of the biggest plot hole / plot armour issues, which initially made me feel pretty mad at this episode. Destroying the Iron Fleet in the space of mere minutes, where only last episode she flew over them without a word to say about it. Likewise sacking the entire defences of King’s Landing with a few breaths of fire, when the whole point of the first two dragons being killed was to introduce some tension because it might have evened up the fight? Weird choice.

As I said earlier, the real travesty was how easy the last dragon was killed. The defenses of Kings Landing and the fleet never had a chance in reality. Again, going back to Harrenhal- one dragon wiped it into ruins. And it’s the biggest castle in the realm by a large margin.
It was ridiculous for them to have ever killed the other dragon to begin with. That whole scene last episode was dumb and insulting.

All the things happened to justify her turning like this — losing Missandei, her dragons, claim to the throne etc — but it happened too quickly.
Keep in mind her biggest turn was due to Jon’s betrayal by telling Sansa and by default everyone; and then the subsequent snubbing of her in a sexual or desirous way. That’s where she truly lost it.
But yes- far too quickly. The fault of the condensed episodes for sure.

Regarding Euron- has there been a less compelling character? All he was missing was the “bad guy” music during his scenes. That’s what I mean with one dimensional characters. He was a caricature of a “bad guy” more than an actual character.

I agree with you about Arya too. I thought she was handled perfectly. If she killed Cersei it would have been God awful.

Speaking of Cersei, they handled it well. She loved Jamie and she loved her kids. That was a redeeming quality about her. The early seasons really painted that picture well, and even her shame March was (or should have been) heartbreaking. People who just wanted her to die with vengeance a la the psychopath and unredeemable Ramsey Bolton were missing the point. She had positive qualities and she deserved more than some painful and gruesome death.
And the irony of it all? Westeros clearly would be better off with her in the seat. And I love that aspect. “The grass isn't always greener” or “careful what you wish for” are perfectly suited here.
 
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It was fine. Nothing great about it for me. Dany making full heel is super lazy writing and seen from a mile away. So now the show ends as the show started with a king/queen slayer with I’m sure Jon killing Dany. Arya serves no purpose, the Euron and Jamie fight was hilariously bad, the once dead shot scorpions are actually useless.
 
Dany's always had a propensity for violence, though. It's been easy to forgive because she usually takes out pretty horrible people, and also saves/liberates others. But she ultimately believes the throne is her destiny, and she's made statements and done things throughout the seasons that show just how far she'll go to get there: "I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their city to the dirt." (Mereen) "We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." She didn't just execute the masters or throw them in jail - she crucified them. Same with the Tarlys. She could've taken them prisoner, but she made an example of them.

And looking back on the house of the undying vision from S2, it wasn't snow falling on the iron throne - it was ash. She's queen of the ashes, and fulfilled her own prophecy.

I love her character, so this unfolding series of events was a little heartbreaking to me. But it reminded me that GRRM's books were ultimately about the cycle of violence and rule, and that I shouldn't have expected anything else, especially with all the prior telegraphing of this episode. That said, I understand any complaints about the speed of this particular season. I'm taking a huge, uneducated guess that massive production schedules for the two battle episodes might have prevented them from cramming in any others?
 
As I said earlier, the real travesty was how easy the last dragon was killed. The defenses of Kings Landing and the fleet never had a chance in reality. Again, going back to Harrenhal- one dragon wiped it into ruins. And it’s the biggest castle in the realm by a large margin.
It was ridiculous for them to have ever killed the other dragon to begin with. That whole scene last episode was dumb and insulting.


Keep in mind her biggest turn was due to Jon’s betrayal by telling Sansa and by default everyone; and then the subsequent snubbing of her in a sexual or desirous way. That’s where she truly lost it.
But yes- far too quickly. The fault of the condensed episodes for sure.
All very true. I think the problem is just one of consistency really (eg 1 scorpion takes out 1 dragon, then 1 dragon takes out a dozen plus scorpions).

Dany's always had a propensity for violence, though. It's been easy to forgive because she usually takes out pretty horrible people, and also saves/liberates others. But she ultimately believes the throne is her destiny, and she's made statements and done things throughout the seasons that show just how far she'll go to get there: "I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their city to the dirt." (Mereen) "We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." She didn't just execute the masters or throw them in jail - she crucified them. Same with the Tarlys. She could've taken them prisoner, but she made an example of them.

And looking back on the house of the undying vision from S2, it wasn't snow falling on the iron throne - it was ash. She's queen of the ashes, and fulfilled her own prophecy.

I love her character, so this unfolding series of events was a little heartbreaking to me. But it reminded me that GRRM's books were ultimately about the cycle of violence and rule, and that I shouldn't have expected anything else, especially with all the prior telegraphing of this episode. That said, I understand any complaints about the speed of this particular season. I'm taking a huge, uneducated guess that massive production schedules for the two battle episodes might have prevented them from cramming in any others?
These are all very fair points, and there's certainly some rose-tinted Daenerys fans out there talking as if they ruined a vision of her as perfect innocent saviour. You're right that's not been her style. Your last point about circularity is right on the money though -- thinking there would be one, definitive, identifiable 'end' to this would be naïve in many senses. Whether they decide to superficially end it as one such definitive stop, or press more overtly on the idea of repetition, the overall message of the saga underneath that and in an unspoken sense has to pretty much be that we're back where we started. All for nothing, and it'll happen again.
 
I am with everyone that the dragon dispatching everything so neatly was a hard stretch. I think they were going for a “blinded by the sun” moment but it wasn’t well conveyed. I think of the battle of Helms Deep and Gandalf arising in the blazing sunrise.... that was very well depicted and believable.

I also agree that this was going to be a letdown if only because it was the end of a great series.

The good news is we are left with the cleanup now and a bunch of unanswered loose ends. Where is Tyrion? Where is Sansa? Lot’s of satellite characters and relationships still to be accounted for.

Wouldn’t we all love to see the storyboards for the prolonged battle sequence! Dizzying!

Edit: A fun article that contains a fair amount of sarcasm about episode 5:

'Game of Thrones' Season 8, Episode 5 recap: Just one long 80-minute 'AAAAHHH!!!' - CNN
 
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I love her character, so this unfolding series of events was a little heartbreaking to me.
Did you read the books? Her television character was much more endearing. I couldn’t stand the book version of her; she was an immature and whiny twit.
I actually enjoyed her the first few seasons; although she became a bit repetitive at the end and I wish this downward spiral would’ve been a few episodes long with hints here and there.

I also agree that this was going to be a letdown if only because it was the end of a great series.
:eek:O:
Gotta disagree there. Again, maybe that’s why it wasn’t a let down for me as I was let down seasons ago.
 
Did you read the books? Her television character was much more endearing. I couldn’t stand the book version of her; she was an immature and whiny twit.
I actually enjoyed her the first few seasons; although she became a bit repetitive at the end and I wish this downward spiral would’ve been a few episodes long with hints here and there.

I did! Though I haven't re-read them in a bit, I really should. I have a horrible habit of liking novels and then getting obsessed with film/tv versions (cough-Harry Potter). And I think these are all fair points. It's been a fast 1-2-3-4-punch for her these past few eps
 
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A few gripes about last night:

Dany's heel turn was very rushed. Yes, they've teased it - so it made sense, but they've also shown she had the capability to be different as well. I think there's a good chunk of people who hated last night are because they expected Dany to be all good and ignored the signs from the previous 7 seasons. From that angle, that ain't the show's fault...

Cersei looked weak and it came off as a sympathetic death for a character who didn't deserve that. She was THAT bitch for 2 seasons, especially after last week, and she was relegated to nothing. She didn't need to be given a Ramsay death, but she needed to atone for her cruelty by those she wronged.

Euron ultimately was pointless....

Clegane Bowl didn't feel right, especially since we knew at that point, they both were dying. You lose the stakes, the drama/tension weakens.

Tyrion and Jaime's interactions continued to be excellent but that sure was a rush job for Jaime's final arc..
 
Cersei looked weak and it came off as a sympathetic death for a character who didn't deserve that. She was THAT bitch for 2 seasons, especially after last week, and she was relegated to nothing. She didn't need to be given a Ramsay death, but she needed to atone for her cruelty by those she wronged.

As the resident Cersei defender, it's not her character's fault that the writers can't write complex characters to save their lives without source material. They made her the one dimensional bitch that she's been the last two seasons but that's not who she is. People need to view Seasons 6 and 7 as Fan Service. It's certainly not what GRRM would have developed.
And when viewing it in that lens, she deserved a sympathetic death.
 
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As the resident Cersei defender, it's not her character's fault that the writers can't write complex characters to save their lives without source material. They made her the one dimensional bitch that she's been the last two seasons but that's not who she is. People need to view Seasons 6 and 7 as Fan Service. It's certainly not what GRRM would have developed.
And when viewing it in that lens, she deserved a sympathetic death.

She has done a lot of cruel deeds and blood on her hands before S 6 & 7. Regardless, no matter how you feel about the last 2 seasons, it's still a part of the story and thus, part of her arc.
 
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She has done a lot of cruel deeds and blood on her hands before S 6 & 7. Regardless, no matter how you feel about the last 2 seasons, it's still a part of the story and thus, part of her arc.

I mean... she died knowing her baby and entire lineage died with her. No one suffered more than Cersei in this series. So I don't know what else you would have wanted.
 
I mean... she died knowing her baby and entire lineage died with her. No one suffered more than Cersei in this series. So I don't know what else you would have wanted.

A satisfying conclusion to her arc. :shrug:

Hell, I would have preferred to her to make it out alive and live out as a nobody, knowing that the only one who ever truly loved her, and she loved back, is dead compared to the way she went out.
 
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A satisfying conclusion to her arc. :shrug:

Hell, I would have preferred to her to make it out alive and live out as a nobody, knowing that the only one who ever truly loved her, and she loved back, is dead compared to the way she went out.

Agree to disagree, I suppose. The Lannister lineage ending was the conclusion to her arc. She could still have children alive, as could he. Although, I guess technically Brianne could be pregnant :grin:
 
I think I'm ok with how Cersei died, because it gave Jaime the satisfying death he wanted, which I don't think they could've done had one of the "heroes" killed her.
Clegane Bowl didn't feel right, especially since we knew at that point, they both were dying. You lose the stakes, the drama/tension weakens.
If this is your take on it, I don't see how you were ever looking forward to it.
 
A few gripes about last night:

Dany's heel turn was very rushed. Yes, they've teased it - so it made sense, but they've also shown she had the capability to be different as well. I think there's a good chunk of people who hated last night are because they expected Dany to be all good and ignored the signs from the previous 7 seasons. From that angle, that ain't the show's fault...

Cersei looked weak and it came off as a sympathetic death for a character who didn't deserve that. She was THAT bitch for 2 seasons, especially after last week, and she was relegated to nothing. She didn't need to be given a Ramsay death, but she needed to atone for her cruelty by those she wronged.

Euron ultimately was pointless....

Clegane Bowl didn't feel right, especially since we knew at that point, they both were dying. You lose the stakes, the drama/tension weakens.

Tyrion and Jaime's interactions continued to be excellent but that sure was a rush job for Jaime's final arc..
This is, to an extent, my gripe. Put more specifically, last night's episode, showed numerous characters - who we have seen learning better - failing to make the earned decisions that highlight growth.

Varys commits treason the moment Jon arrives on the beach in front of everyone.

Tyrion releases his brother despite 1) he's brother's numerous betrayals, 2) no evidence that Jaime could even GET to Cersei in time to stop anything, 3) no reason to actually believe Cersei would surrender.

Dany destroys the fleet (after ANOTHER frontal assault that already killed one dragon), then flies RIGHT PAST THE RED KEEP in order destroy the outer wall. This was the most infuriating thing to me. A smart character - a character who learned something - a character who was more interested in killing the tyrants than the oppressed - would have just destroyed the Red Keep from the water and ended it there. Kill Cersei. End the war. But she doesn't. She flies past the Red Keep, then decides to slowly burn all of King's Landing to the ground like a sadistic child dumping gasoline an anthill instead of going after the person she hates the most (Cersei). All of the other wonton deaths in Dany's wake were, in some sense, justified. She was either freeing the oppressed, rescuing herself, or defending her position (like with the Tarleys). This wasn't that. She actively ignores the Lannisters who killed her father and the person who killed her Missandre. We can talk how it was teased and hinted it, which it was, but the heavy-handed allusions over the last couple of episodes - and then the extent of Dany's actions - made every bit of growth and development they've had for the character went out the window. We're presented with no ACTUAL justification for it, apart from "That's a Targaryan for you."

Grey Worm just disappointed me. He could have gotten justice without committing the war crime of killing an unarmed soldier. I guess his arc is "honorable guard" into furious murderer.

Nearly every aspect of Cleganbowl was telegraphed the moment they met on the stairs. Gregor getting unmasked. Trying to crush Sandor's skull like he did with Oberyn. Both of them falling off the tower. There were no stakes at all. The most effective part was the Gregor killing Qyburn. Probably the best part of the whole episode.

Euron and Jaimie running into each other and fighting was just stilted contrivance, and makes Euron the most pointless character on the show. Friggin' Hot Pie had more relevance.

Arya's escape was just padding.

And Cersei and Jaimie's death just felt oddly sympathetic. Because there isn't even the narrative benefit of Cersei dying, knowing she is dying, ALONE. Even if no one kill her, watching her die - alone - having driven away every in the world would have had a smattering of satisfaction. Watching Jaimie die, alone, futilely trying to get to the only woman he loved would have been equally satisfying. But the don't. Despite Cersei sending Bronn to kill her brother (which means nothing now, I guess), they're able to die in each other's arms.
 
We can all talk about characters doing stupid things which make no sense based on their previous experiences, but humans do stupid things sometimes with no reason, so that's not necessarily lazy writing it's life.

I have mixed feelings, need to watch it again before making my mind up, but in general I liked it. It certainly was spectacular but it didn't have the same effect on me as Battle of the Bastards or Hardhome which is my all time favourite episode.

I'm rooting for Sansa to end up as queen of the seven kingdoms, but that may be too much of a 'happy' ending to wish for.