Epcot (General Discussion)

[Nick]

I think Epcot is already irrecoverable. Honestly I would be happy to see the name Future World go as it's really an insult to what used to be called Future World.

I think Future World is "irrecoverable" (meaning will never be like it was in the 80's), World Showcase on the other hand has still held to it's original vision for the most part. The only blemish is Frozen, imo.

 

[s8film40]

It still educates, informs, and inspires. The brass plaque isn't cracked yet.

Only the things that haven't been changed yet. It took me a long time to accept that Epcot is dead. I think many of us can still see the good. The average guest see Finding Nemo and a fast car ride. There was a whole generation of us who were young when we went to EPCOT in the 80's and 90's who were inspired by it. For many it inspired their lives and career choices and made us want to contribute to the future of humanity. For todays youth Epcot is no different than any other ride in any of the other Disney parks, it's fun and enjoyable and not much else.

 

[epcyclopedia]

I think Future World is "irrecoverable" (meaning will never be like it was in the 80's), World Showcase on the other hand has still held to it's original vision for the most part. The only blemish is Frozen, imo.

Change isn't death.

Epcot pavilions were installed with 10 year contracts. They are designed to change.

 

[s8film40]

I think Future World is "irrecoverable" (meaning will never be like it was in the 80's), World Showcase on the other hand has still held to it's original vision for the most part. The only blemish is Frozen, imo.

True, I've just always viewed Future World as the heart of Epcot. World Showcase is as you say mostly unchanged.

 

[epcyclopedia]

True, I've just always viewed Future World as the heart of Epcot. World Showcase is as you say mostly unchanged.

I've literally spent a decade convincing people (and apparently finally enough people to tip the scale) that World Showcase wasn't meant to static either and needed rides and expansions. Go back just a few years ago and you'll see people getting all prickly at the idea of anything other than a restaurant being added.

 

[Nick]

Change isn't death.

Epcot pavilions were installed with 10 year contracts. They are designed to change.

The issue is after those original contracts, a lot of change stopped happening. Sponsors started dropping out. We're down to only two left in FW after Siemen's leaves.

It's up to Disney to update rides now and they've been unwilling to do that over the years.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The issue is after those original contracts, a lot of change stopped happening. Sponsors started dropping out. We're down to only two left in FW after Siemen's leaves.

It's up to Disney to update rides now and they've been unwilling to do that over the years.

Which brings us to now, where there's 3 pavilions in the process of updates.

 

[Nick]

I've literally spent a decade convincing people (and apparently finally enough people to tip the scale) that World Showcase wasn't meant to static either and needed rides and expansions. Go back just a few years ago and you'll see people getting all prickly at the idea of anything other than a restaurant being added.

But now that rides are finally starting to happen, all people do is complain. I know it's because of IP's and there were a lot of rides drawn up as originals for the pavilions, but you can't have it both ways. If you say you want rides and they start giving them to you, complaining after that point is very hypocritical and it's what a lot of "purists" are doing even over Rat which fits fairly well.

 

[s8film40]

I've literally spent a decade convincing people (and apparently finally enough people to tip the scale) that World Showcase wasn't meant to static either and needed rides and expansions. Go back just a few years ago and you'll see people getting all prickly at the idea of anything other than a restaurant being added.

Neither FW or WS were meant to be static. Epcot was a park built with the intention of change. WS pavilions were built to be more timeless but were built with expansion in mind. FW was meant to change to adapt to the current views of the future. The problem there is they have changed it to reflect a different vision of the park, moving away from a promising vision of the future to a fantasy vision grounded in the present popular IP's and "fun" rides.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Neither FW or WS were meant to be static. Epcot was a park built with the intention of change. WS pavilions were built to be more timeless but were built with expansion in mind. FW was meant to change to adapt to the current views of the future. The problem there is they have changed it to reflect a different vision of the park, moving away from a promising vision of the future to a fantasy vision grounded in the present popular IP's and "fun" rides.

One IP ride is replacing one IP ride. Test Track still rambles on about the art of design. The Land still puts boats of tourists through a greenhouse and talks about futuristic growing techniques. Even though we lament the Seas it gets people in to see the tanks and they offer educational tours and information. I might even agree more if people did the ride at Seas and left the pavilion but most see the tanks and explore a bit.

But now that rides are finally starting to happen, all people do is complain. I know it's because of IP's and there were a lot of rides drawn up as originals for the pavilions, but you can't have it both ways. If you say you want rides and they start giving them to you, complaining after that point is very hypocritical and it's what a lot of "purists" are doing even over Rat which fits fairly well.

People always complain. Storm and norm or something is the corporate phrase. Right now they're storming.

I defended Frozen the moment I learned that Norwegians wanted it. It's their pavilion - like how Brazil is allowed to have a "stupid" (my opinion) ride that puts you in a dome screen inside a soccer ball that is kicked around the sites of the country by famous soccer players if that's what they want.

And Frozen also heralded the change in mentality that World Showcase is viable for rides and capacity. We wouldn't get Rat or even the notion of another pavilion of Frozen didn't happen.

 

[Nick]

People always complain. Storm and norm or something is the corporate phrase. Right now they're storming.

I defended Frozen the moment I learned that Norwegians wanted it. It's their pavilion - like how Brazil is allowed to have a "stupid" (my opinion) ride that puts you in a dome screen inside a soccer ball that is kicked around the sites of the country by famous soccer players if that's what they want.

And Frozen also heralded the change in mentality that World Showcase is viable for rides and capacity. We wouldn't get Rat or even the notion of another pavilion of Frozen didn't happen.

That's the one thing I do really like about Frozen is that, probably mostly because of the long waits, they began to look at the other side of WS for a ride to try and balance things out and cut wait times down. And there's still active rumors of a new ride going into the UK too.

 

[s8film40]

One IP ride is replacing one IP ride. Test Track still rambles on about the art of design. The Land still puts boats of tourists through a greenhouse and talks about futuristic growing techniques. Even though we lament the Seas it gets people in to see the tanks and they offer educational tours and information. I might even agree more if people did the ride at Seas and left the pavilion but most see the tanks and explore a bit.

The Land and SSE are the only true remnants of EPCOTS original vision. I'm sure the current leadership has some good ideas for their replacements sooner or later. Seeing a fish tank isn't a bold optimistic view of the future, especially by comparison to visiting an underwater Sea Base. Test Track went from at least showing how present day cars are tested to a giant joke of an attraction thats more fantasy than reality at this point.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The Land and SSE are the only true remnants of EPCOTS original vision. I'm sure the current leadership has some good ideas for their replacements sooner or later. Seeing a fish tank isn't a bold optimistic view of the future, especially by comparison to visiting an underwater Sea Base. Test Track went from at least showing how present day cars are tested to a giant joke of an attraction thats more fantasy than reality at this point.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that.. you just chastised Seas for being only educational in the Epcot mission then tear apart new Test Track for being futuristic and fantastical, lauding the old for being merely educational.

 

[Nick]

The Land and SSE are the only true remnants of EPCOTS original vision. I'm sure the current leadership has some good ideas for their replacements sooner or later. Seeing a fish tank isn't a bold optimistic view of the future, especially by comparison to visiting an underwater Sea Base. Test Track went from at least showing how present day cars are tested to a giant joke of an attraction thats more fantasy than reality at this point.

The Land is getting a big refurb before Epcot's 40th last I heard and i'm going to assume a refurb for SSE sometime soon, but haven't heard much on that yet.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The Land is getting a big refurb before Epcot's 40th last I heard and i'm going to assume a refurb for SSE sometime soon, but haven't heard much on that yet.

Maybe they'll finally put the shop in the old Soarin FP space.

 

[King_K.]

As long as Living with the Land stays, i'll be happy.

 

[Ultranel]

So it looks like the Communicores will be gone. Not sure how I feel about that, but I heard they were going to build a permanent event center there. which I thought it was a great idea, but what now? I really hope they don't take over the WoL pavilion for that. I think a new major attraction belongs there. perhaps the Odyssey will be better place for that kind of stuff

 

[Alicia]

So it looks like the Communicores will be gone. Not sure how I feel about that, but I heard they were going to build a permanent event center there. which I thought it was a great idea, but what now? I really hope they don't take over the WoL pavilion for that. I think a new major attraction belongs there. perhaps the Odyssey will be better place for that kind of stuff

Odyssey is a bit small for Festival stuff, but I do like that they used it for the new Arts Festival.

I'm keeping in mind that the concept art for Future World we saw was very blue sky, and might not mean anything at all. A permanent Festival center besides the WoL pavilion would be a good use for one of the Innoventions buildings for sure.

 

[King_K.]

Odyssey is a bit small for Festival stuff, but I do like that they used it for the new Arts Festival.

I'm keeping in mind that the concept art for Future World we saw was very blue sky, and might not mean anything at all. A permanent Festival center besides the WoL pavilion would be a good use for one of the Innoventions buildings for sure.

I've always wondered why Disney doesn't use the Millennium pavilion more often for some of these events, I know they get good use of it when it comes to special/corporate events. But for their annual events, it's dreadfully under utilized.

 

[shiekra38]

The Land and SSE are the only true remnants of EPCOTS original vision. I'm sure the current leadership has some good ideas for their replacements sooner or later.

Don't be surprised to see The Land with Disney characters eventually...I think SSE is too iconic to have that happen though