Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind - General Discussion

[Mr. EPCOT]

:doh:

Warning. This post will trigger Disney purists. Pursue at your own risk.

Am I the only one who doesn't think whether or not GotG "fits in with Epcot's original vision" isn't really that big of a deal? Look, it's in Future World, a land where the future now means, "A future that will never be but would be cool to be in". Disney made that mistake in the past of making a whole land based on future tech and look how it's turned out. GotG kinda fits in with that sci-fi fantasized future that Future World implies now.

As long as the ride is great, I'm really not concerned about the original vision for Epcot. If they were strictly trying to make it like it was in the past, it would be boring as crap. Epcot needs more exciting rides.

Oh, and I think Frozen fits fine with Norway. So will Rat.

It's not a big deal if you don't have any standards. If you don't care about the high quality and thoughtfulness and Disney used to be known for. If you have no respect for the lofty goals of Walt's organization to produce a meaningful entertainment experience that could make the world a better place. There are MANY other places Guardians and Frozen and stuff like that would fit better. There are absolutely NO other places like EPCOT Center. If you think EPCOT Center as it was is boring, there's a hundred other parks you could go to. There's a specific place for science fantasy now, and that's Tomorrowland. Future World should be about science potential. Personally, I find that way more exciting, and I'm far from being the only one. There's not really anywhere now that scratches that itch the way EPCOT used to. One of the Disney parks greatest strengths has been how diverse the themes for each park are and how they strictly cohered to those themes, and they are just absolutely eroding that away now in an effort to make the quickest, easiest buck possible by appealing to the lowest common denominator. You can either choose to be the lowest common denominator, or you choose to want something more meaningful. I can't help but want something meaningful, and it makes me sad that so many not only just want to consume brainless entertainment but seek to impose that brainlessness on everyone else.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Everyone seems to forget Journey into Imagination, Food Rocks, and the concept for the Precursor to Great Movie Ride.

Epcot is not "technology here, countries here."

It's "humanity - this is what we can make" and amid that the "hard sciences" up front for the most part and then art/design/culture in World Showcase.

From there each pavilion picks a sort of vantage point to explore thing. Horizons was "futuristic" but to the ends of expressing its thesis concept of "If we can dream it, we can do it." In theory the whole ride could have been landmark innovations and such - sort of like SSE but less narrowly focused on communications - but went with plausible futurism to evoke the idea.

World of Motion was "fun to be free" in how we made it so we can go all over the globe and even into space.

So Epcot typically speaks to broad human themes. While MK plays up the idea of wishes and dreams come true and the little guy winning over the brute - epcot says you can do stuff with hard work.

Even Ellen's big thematic statement was the endlessness of brain power.

And Ellen was an IP (she still is by herself, but not the same one the ride purchased the rights to use.) That ride still went for an Epcot statement.

So as long as GotG strives to make a proper statement it'll be ok in Future World.

And for anyone playing along at home - the themes of the Transportation pavilion:

1. It's fun to be free exploring the world - in our automobiles.
2. Our advancements have made us so safe - in our automobiles.
3. We have endless freedom of choice and design - in our automobiles.

 

[belloq87]

Warning. This post will trigger Disney purists. Pursue at your own risk.

Am I the only one who doesn't think whether or not GotG "fits in with Epcot's original vision" isn't really that big of a deal? Look, it's in Future World, a land where the future now means, "A future that will never be but would be cool to be in". Disney made that mistake in the past of making a whole land based on future tech and look how it's turned out. GotG kinda fits in with that sci-fi fantasized future that Future World implies now.

As long as the ride is great, I'm really not concerned about the original vision for Epcot. If they were strictly trying to make it like it was in the past, it would be boring as crap. Epcot needs more exciting rides.

Oh, and I think Frozen fits fine with Norway. So will Rat.

Questions: what differentiates - if anything, at this point - Future World from Tomorrowland? And why should these parks even bother having distinct themes if everybody seems so willing to settle for Magic Kingdom: The Sequel? Should not the attractions at these parks feel as though they could belong nowhere else, if at all possible?

I fell in love with Epcot because it was different from Magic Kingdom, not because it’s a dumping ground for concepts for which there isn’t enough room in the Magic Kingdom (or Hollywood Studios). I fell in love with Epcot because it was a positive ode to human endeavor and achievement. I can get young kids thinking elements of Epcot (past or present) are boring, but a die hard, adult theme park fan calling the Epcot of the past “boring as crap” is an opinion I just cannot understand in any way.

Do not agree at all. Family and friends appreciate Epcot for a more mature atmosphere and a DIFFERENT one. I wont even get into the aspirational aspects.

All you've described is Tomorrowland at MK.

When evening becomes MK there's going to be less of a reason for those seeking differentiating experiences to go to MK-lite.

This. 100%.

:doh:

It's not a big deal if you don't have any standards. If you don't care about the high quality and thoughtfulness and Disney used to be known for. If you have no respect for the lofty goals of Walt's organization to produce a meaningful entertainment experience that could make the world a better place. There are MANY other places Guardians and Frozen and stuff like that would fit better. There are absolutely NO other places like EPCOT Center. If you think EPCOT Center as it was is boring, there's a hundred other parks you could go to. There's a specific place for science fantasy now, and that's Tomorrowland. Future World should be about science potential. Personally, I find that way more exciting, and I'm far from being the only one. There's not really anywhere now that scratches that itch the way EPCOT used to. One of the Disney parks greatest strengths has been how diverse the themes for each park are and how they strictly cohered to those themes, and they are just absolutely eroding that away now in an effort to make the quickest, easiest buck possible by appealing to the lowest common denominator. You can either choose to be the lowest common denominator, or you choose to want something more meaningful. I can't help but want something meaningful, and it makes me sad that so many not only just want to consume brainless entertainment but seek to impose that brainlessness on everyone else.

You're much more harsh than I am! But yeah...

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

You're much more harsh than I am! But yeah...

I have... strong feelings. And no more patience.

 

[Freak]

I'm glad to see that although people agree and strongly disagree with my post, it's creating some healthy discussion. That's what it's all about, right? Since there's too many quotes to address, I'll just take everything I've read and incorporate that into my post as best I can.

Questions: what differentiates - if anything, at this point - Future World from Tomorrowland? And why should these parks even bother having distinct themes if everybody seems so willing to settle for Magic Kingdom: The Sequel? Should not the attractions at these parks feel as though they could belong nowhere else, if at all possible?

I fell in love with Epcot because it was different from Magic Kingdom, not because it’s a dumping ground for concepts for which there isn’t enough room in the Magic Kingdom (or Hollywood Studios). I fell in love with Epcot because it was a positive ode to human endeavor and achievement. I can get young kids thinking elements of Epcot (past or present) are boring, but a die hard, adult theme park fan calling the Epcot of the past “boring as crap” is an opinion I just cannot understand in any way.

Allow me to clarify when I say that Epcot would be "boring as crap" if they stuck with the original vision for the park. I understand it was meant as a world's fair style park that would showcase parts of the world and nod to human endeavors to advancing the future. I understand that the park is also very helpful in educating people about history and the advancements of mankind. The problem is, the goal of the park was so focused on the education side if it, that it turned out to be uninteresting in several areas; that is why they have addressed that over the years. That is also why it would not bode well for a modern audience that are used to thrill rides.

Now, there were GREAT things in Epcot's past. I LOVED the old Journey and got the privilege to see that at age 4. I loved and still love Spaceship Earth. They all were great rides and helped give an ode to human achievement and technology. They weren't boring as crap in the least. However, when you have a park that only has a bunch of slow omnimovers to offer, you have to make some changes to bring in more excitement. If they were still around today, people would yawn after going on half of them.

Now does GotG fit in with the vision of the potential technology and advancement for the future? I don't think Disney wants that anymore. Especially now when technology is advancing so quickly, it would become dated by the time the next new attraction opens when it would bring it up. Theme parks don't want to focus on the "real" future when it doesn't look so bright with current events and tech advances too quickly.

Does GotG fit with an ode to human achievement? I'm not going to rack my brain to look for reasons. Look, I care about the theme of the park, but there's a point to where it's just not worth loosing sleep over. It's futuristic. It's close enough. Just gimmie a great ride at Epcot. I would dare say some if you are obsessing way more about theming that Walt ever would.

 

[rhino4evr]

the original "concept" of EPCOT, is long dead and buried. It's become a large shopping mall/pub crawl with a tacked on science museum theme park to a big portion of its visitors. "Future World" is basically an afterthought, and just feels old and outdated compared. It's funny how the countries seem to feel more modern these days. I've personally given up on the dream. Disney made way too many bad decisions at this park. Just give me new rides at this point.

 

[Nick]

the original "concept" of EPCOT, is long dead and buried. It's become a large shopping mall/pub crawl with a tacked on science museum theme park to a big portion of its visitors. "Future World" is basically an afterthought, and just feels old and outdated compared. It's funny how the countries seem to feel more modern these days. I've personally given up on the dream. Disney made way too many bad decisions at this park. Just give me new rides at this point.

It's always funny to me how Iger gets blamed for "killing Epcot" when Eisner was the one who really jumped the shark with the park.

Under Eisner, EPCOT Center died and pretty much everything went. Motion was replaced by Test Track, Horizons replaced by Mission: Space, Original Imagination killed off, Wonders of Life opened and closed, Original UoE replaced by the horrible version that's about to bite the dust, entry plaza ruined, etc, etc.

Eisner killed EPCOT Center 20+ years ago and it's not coming back.

 

[UNIrd]

It's always funny to me how Iger gets blamed for "killing Epcot" when Eisner was the one who really jumped the shark with the park.

Under Eisner, EPCOT Center died and pretty much everything went. Wonders of Life replaced by Test Track, Horizons replaced by Mission: Space, Original Imagination killed off, Wonders of Life opened and closed, Original UoE replaced by the horrible version that's about to bite the dust, entry plaza ruined, etc, etc.

Eisner killed EPCOT Center 20+ years ago and it's not coming back.

EXACTLY, which is why I always wonder what people are referring to when they bitch about Guardians of the Galaxy falling in line with Epcot's vision. Um.. what year do you think it actually is?

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I'm glad to see that although people agree and strongly disagree with my post, it's creating some healthy discussion. That's what it's all about, right? Since there's too many quotes to address, I'll just take everything I've read and incorporate that into my post as best I can.

Allow me to clarify when I say that Epcot would be "boring as crap" if they stuck with the original vision for the park. I understand it was meant as a world's fair style park that would showcase parts of the world and nod to human endeavors to advancing the future. I understand that the park is also very helpful in educating people about history and the advancements of mankind. The problem is, the goal of the park was so focused on the education side if it, that it turned out to be uninteresting in several areas; that is why they have addressed that over the years. That is also why it would not bode well for a modern audience that are used to thrill rides.

Now, there were GREAT things in Epcot's past. I LOVED the old Journey and got the privilege to see that at age 4. I loved and still love Spaceship Earth. They all were great rides and helped give an ode to human achievement and technology. They weren't boring as crap in the least. However, when you have a park that only has a bunch of slow omnimovers to offer, you have to make some changes to bring in more excitement. If they were still around today, people would yawn after going on half of them.

Now does GotG fit in with the vision of the potential technology and advancement for the future? I don't think Disney wants that anymore. Especially now when technology is advancing so quickly, it would become dated by the time the next new attraction opens when it would bring it up. Theme parks don't want to focus on the "real" future when it doesn't look so bright with current events and tech advances too quickly.

Does GotG fit with an ode to human achievement? I'm not going to rack my brain to look for reasons. Look, I care about the theme of the park, but there's a point to where it's just not worth loosing sleep over. It's futuristic. It's close enough. Just gimmie a great ride at Epcot. I would dare say some if you are obsessing way more about theming that Walt ever would.

Yes, it's good to have a healthy debate about this. Lots of passion about something many people feel deeply about. When I'm taking about Epcot I'm also talking about spending time with my parents at Tuto Gusto, who may never be able to make a trip to WDW again.

One criticism I have of the "the park isn't what it used to be" is the baby with the bath water approach. Just because the park didn't get the necessary updates over the years (and WDI tried) doesn't mean the main theme of optimism in mankinds humanitarian and technological progress should be tossed out. As I discussed on our podcast there is a way to make a rollercoaster about energy, showing off different types energy with the final coaster segment showing off potential energy and more.

Sum of All Thrills was another great example of this.

What EPCOT Center and Epcot were going for does make for entertaining, thrilling attractions. Let's not forget Body Wars, which Disney closed in the early 2000s.

 

[Nick]

Let's not forget Body Wars, which Disney closed in the early 2000s.

Seasonal in 2001-2002 and last operated to the public in 2007 I believe. Same for Cranium Command, obviously.

 

[rhino4evr]

It's always funny to me how Iger gets blamed for "killing Epcot" when Eisner was the one who really jumped the shark with the park.

Under Eisner, EPCOT Center died and pretty much everything went. Motion was replaced by Test Track, Horizons replaced by Mission: Space, Original Imagination killed off, Wonders of Life opened and closed, Original UoE replaced by the horrible version that's about to bite the dust, entry plaza ruined, etc, etc.

Eisner killed EPCOT Center 20+ years ago and it's not coming back.

I completely agree. Iger was left with a mess after Eisner. Every single EPCOT revision was for the worse. At least in my opinion.

 

[belloq87]

I'm glad to see that although people agree and strongly disagree with my post, it's creating some healthy discussion. That's what it's all about, right? Since there's too many quotes to address, I'll just take everything I've read and incorporate that into my post as best I can.

Allow me to clarify when I say that Epcot would be "boring as crap" if they stuck with the original vision for the park. I understand it was meant as a world's fair style park that would showcase parts of the world and nod to human endeavors to advancing the future. I understand that the park is also very helpful in educating people about history and the advancements of mankind. The problem is, the goal of the park was so focused on the education side if it, that it turned out to be uninteresting in several areas; that is why they have addressed that over the years. That is also why it would not bode well for a modern audience that are used to thrill rides.

Now, there were GREAT things in Epcot's past. I LOVED the old Journey and got the privilege to see that at age 4. I loved and still love Spaceship Earth. They all were great rides and helped give an ode to human achievement and technology. They weren't boring as crap in the least. However, when you have a park that only has a bunch of slow omnimovers to offer, you have to make some changes to bring in more excitement. If they were still around today, people would yawn after going on half of them.

Now does GotG fit in with the vision of the potential technology and advancement for the future? I don't think Disney wants that anymore. Especially now when technology is advancing so quickly, it would become dated by the time the next new attraction opens when it would bring it up. Theme parks don't want to focus on the "real" future when it doesn't look so bright with current events and tech advances too quickly.

Does GotG fit with an ode to human achievement? I'm not going to rack my brain to look for reasons. Look, I care about the theme of the park, but there's a point to where it's just not worth loosing sleep over. It's futuristic. It's close enough. Just gimmie a great ride at Epcot. I would dare say some if you are obsessing way more about theming that Walt ever would.

I appreciate the thoughtful response. At the end of the day, I guess I'd just say that I don't want these parks to become interchangeable, and if we keep going the way we're going, Animal Kingdom will be the only one with any sort of distinct or unique identity. I'd like them all to be distinct.

It's always funny to me how Iger gets blamed for "killing Epcot" when Eisner was the one who really jumped the shark with the park.

Under Eisner, EPCOT Center died and pretty much everything went. Motion was replaced by Test Track, Horizons replaced by Mission: Space, Original Imagination killed off, Wonders of Life opened and closed, Original UoE replaced by the horrible version that's about to bite the dust, entry plaza ruined, etc, etc.

Eisner killed EPCOT Center 20+ years ago and it's not coming back.

Eisner's handling of Epcot is one of the blackest marks on his (otherwise good, in my opinion) theme parks report card.

However... at least the replacement attractions he oversaw still fit into the original concept of what Future World was supposed to be. Less good than the first generation of attractions? Absolutely. But still in keeping with the theme of the areas in which they were added.

 

[captainmoch]

I think a lot of reasons us younger folk (myself included) are fine with Epcot being IPed up is that we never saw Epcot in it's "full glory." I have absolutely no basis for how good Horizons, original Journey into Imagination, etc are because I can't ride them and can only watch low quality videos. My only basis of the "original Epcot vision" is stuff like UoE and the modern Imagination which are... yikes. So in a way, I'm okay with Guardians coming just because I'm sure it's a great ride and I don't know what I'm missing out on. I can still understand why people are upset, and even I think they should have swapped the locations of Tron and Guardians, but it doesn't upset me too badly.

 

[Alicia]

I love love loved Epcot in the late eighties, early nineties. It was my favorite place in the world. As I've mentioned before countless times on the forum I would ride Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, and Spaceship Earth over and over and over again all day.

But my little brother was bored out of his mind all day. While I may have loved the silly show scenes of World of Motion, it was a walk-on most days because many people found it boring. While I found Horizons fascinating, it was a place for a quick nap for much of the general public before it closed. Heck, even Body Wars was a walk-on towards the end, (even though Star Tours was as popular as ever over at MGM.) I remember riding Body Wars by myself on more than one occasion. Like, just me. Alone. On the ride.

So, yea. Reality is what's best for the company. And what makes the most people happy... May not be what I loved most about Epcot. At the end of the day, I just remind myself that this is a business, and not a nature preserve for old rides.

EDIT: They can replace the attractions, but nothing can take my memories away. Now it's time for the youth of today to make their own lasting memories. It feels to me like Disney just wants to make sure they're positive ones. I'm okay with that.

 

[SkiBum]

I have... strong feelings. And no more patience.

Epcot was very interesting and could have remained that way with the proper updates. The plethora of dark rides provided a great way to spend a day and the focus of the rides and pavilions differentiated it from Magic Kingdom.

I get that people may have been bored but that may have been a trigger to start updating instead of replacing. My issue with Frozen is that it was shoehorned when it could easily have been an extremely popular mini-land at DHS, which could have used it.

GoTG will be immensely popular for a while. However, what happens when the movie's popularity has died down? If it is a thrill ride, it will still be popular because of that reason. However, they could have made an adventure ride about space (not even counting Mission Space) or even energy that people would have loved.

If you have no respect for the lofty goals of Walt's organization to produce a meaningful entertainment experience that could make the world a better place.

As a side note (and not related to your comment on this forum), I actually get irked when people use this to say, "no thrill rides at Magic Kingdom". Uh, Walt Disney wanted parks that families could enjoy, beyond the sordid boardwalks at that time. He worked with Arrow Dyn to develop the first steel coaster. I think that he would have loved thrill rides as long as they fit into the premise of the theme.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

The only thing that has left Epcot alive is World Showcase and Test Track.

 

[uiwansonic88]

:doh:

There are absolutely NO other places like EPCOT Center.

There are interactive children's museums and similar places focused on teaching children and adults about science and technology. There are consumer electronics and industry trade shows for various industries that talk about science and technology. There are still places that exhibit cultural artifacts and practices and others that exhibit architectural models. These all have some strong similarities to some aspects of EPCOT.

Children's museum - Wikipedia
List of children's museums in the United States - Wikipedia
Imaginarium - Wikipedia
Technology museum - Wikipedia
Category:Technology museums - Wikipedia
Category:Industry museums - Wikipedia
Arts centre - Wikipedia
Cultural center - Wikipedia
Exhibition of cultural heritage objects - Wikipedia

 

[rhino4evr]

I love love loved Epcot in the late eighties, early nineties. It was my favorite place in the world. As I've mentioned before countless times on the forum I would ride Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, and Spaceship Earth over and over and over again all day.

But my little brother was bored out of his mind all day. While I may have loved the silly show scenes of World of Motion, it was a walk-on most days because many people found it boring. While I found Horizons fascinating, it was a place for a quick nap for much of the general public before it closed. Heck, even Body Wars was a walk-on towards the end, (even though Star Tours was as popular as ever over at MGM.) I remember riding Body Wars by myself on more than one occasion. Like, just me. Alone. On the ride.

So, yea. Reality is what's best for the company. And what makes the most people happy... May not be what I loved most about Epcot. At the end of the day, I just remind myself that this is a business, and not a nature preserve for old rides.

EDIT: They can replace the attractions, but nothing can take my memories away. Now it's time for the youth of today to make their own lasting memories. It feels to me like Disney just wants to make sure they're positive ones. I'm okay with that.

I have similar memories of riding all those rides over and over with little to no wait. I remember when body wars first opened, I think we waited almost an hour to ride, and within a few years it was basically a walk on. Disney people love those old rides, but they forget that the general public did not, and Epcot's attendance was flailing hard. I don't think it really "picked up" again until the Food /Wine fest started. The countries to this day have become the "main draw" of Epcot, as it's become the more "adult" park in the resort. Future World is a shadow of its former self.

 

[UNIrd]

And if Breakout is any indication, the Guardians could sarcastically tie-in the energy theme or Epcot vision somewhere in the attraction. I already love the idea of the reason that they're there is young Peter Quill having visited.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

And if Breakout is any indication, the Guardians could sarcastically tie-in the energy theme or Epcot vision somewhere in the attraction. I already love the idea of the reason that they're there is young Peter Quill having visited.

What if the theme of the ride is to travel back to Epcot in the 80s to save Peter from time travel baddies?