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HHN Operations

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Nov 3, 2015
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Cabana Bae
The quality of HHN Houses (excluding Chucky), shows, scare zones (to an extent), merchandise, and food & beverage continue to exceed expectations each year... yet the event itself keeps getting held back by their operations. I've gone every year since 2013, and by no means does the event suck, it's just not as enjoyable with the ridiculous overcrowding this year.

I think it's time, as fans, to have a healthy discussion on what we've seen/issues and what solutions Universal needs to consider for next year's event.

Cons/Negative Observations:
  • TMs not properly trained (not knowing the menu, where something is located, etc.) - blame on management
  • House Exits (specifically sprung tents & parade building) - the walking isn't the problem, the tight pinch points causing bottlenecks is
  • Lack of shade/protection from elements for guests and team members in queues/stay & scream (almost like they're surprised each year that its hot and it rains in September in Florida)
  • Capacity reduction (I understand there are constraints this year... but there are solutions)
  • Queue wait times exaggerated (resulting in DAS users having to wait in line much longer)
  • Lack of queue entertainment/shade/fans (lots of exhausted guests this year)
  • Horrendous food service

Positive Changes/Additions:
  • No more rushing/screaming at guests to keep up with the party in front of you
  • Strict enforcement of no touching actors/flash lighting in zones
  • Staffing somewhat back to pre-pandemic levels
  • Peacock Bar (more of this please)

I don't want to sound pessimistic, still love the event, but I just think the event's artists'/actors' insane creations/talents are being restricted by ops.

Feel free to move this thread elsewhere, or if it belongs somewhere else, but it's time to address this issue as HHN is at a tipping point.
 
Reaaaally don't even want to dip my toe into this one, but here we go. I think this is a multi-faceted issue and one that fans don't have the full insight to properly discuss tbh.

1) For one, I think this is an issue that goes beyond HHN Orlando and beyond theme parks as a whole. We can discuss how this same capacity issue is starting to arise in HHN Hollywood, but we can take it one step further and look at tourism as a whole.

Wendover Productions on YouTube put out a phenomenal and in-depth video several months ago (here) about the crowding issue national parks around the country have been seeing in recent years and how it's increasingly hard to find a real solution to the whole thing. The same discussion is actively being had in regards to the concert industry right now. It's increasingly hard to get tickets before they sell out and there's no easy fix unfortunately.

It was discussed during COVID that it was likely that we'd see a travel/entertainment boom once people could start participating in society again and we've reached that stage.

---

2) It's easy for fans on a theme park board to simply go "management bad because lines bad", but it's never that simple and it's hard to fully dive into the issue when the actual logistics behind operations year-to-year are known by very few on here.

The "exaggerated wait times" comment that keeps cycling around is one of those key examples. It's hard to seriously discuss the complexity of that topic when in the past week alone, several users have insisted that it's a conspiracy done intentionally to sell more express passes. It's also hard when it's pointed out as something that's "worse than usual" this year when I've had multiple house management members tell me that higher-ups are pushing them much, much harder than in past years to ensure that those wait times are as accurate as possible.

We also have had endless speculation on adding a show to this venue or that venue with absolute no knowledge on how doable those actually are. There were concerns brought up in the past about the logistics of making use of the Bourne building and Horror Make Up is actively used for a multitude of things from Media Events to RIP Tours and more. It's never as simple as "more, more, more".

We also delve into "sell outs" as if it's an exact science when the unfortunate truth is that there are a lot of predictions at play due to things such as multi-night passes, comps, TM tickets, etc. We judge the event's capacity based on these sold out nights and then end up discussing the fact that it feels less busy than non-sell outs half of the time. We get mad at the overflow of capacity, but then simultaneously judge the event when it sells out, but feels manageable. In a world where capacity is fixed, we likely would see more sell outs to ease the congestion of things inside the park.

---

3) The event is in a rough spot this year for a multitude of reasons. Kidzone construction messed with a sizeable chunk of regular event operations, the lagoon show was effectively destroyed, TLOU/ST combo is an insane crowd draw, etc. A lot of things that will be short term issues fortunately.

---

4) Multi-night passes are absolutely a factor that has to change and to an extent, already has with the massive price increases. There are simply too many bodies in the park at this point and lines are going to have to start being drawn unfortunately.

---

5) Operationally, there are certainly a few simple fixes that can be made such as the addition of umbrellas in certain key locations, not forcing people to "fill in all the gaps" in S&S lines when said queues have already closed to any additional guests, etc.

The queue videos are an every year issue at this point for whatever reason where they don't start being added in some spots until nearly halfway through the event which is fairly baffling. The projector stand near DD didn't go up until like last weekend from what I noticed.

Food service would benefit greatly from more steps in the Minion Cafe esque direction in terms of operations.

---

Conclusion: I don't have the answers, but I also think this discussion brings a lot of snap judgements and armchair engineering. Most of us don't know the inner-workings of the management teams, operational teams, or even the regular ole' house teams.

I'll end by saying it's funny that this discussion happens every single year and has for over 15 years now. These old comments all begged for more event nights (23 nights then, 48 now), more houses (8 then, 10 now), more hours (12 am non-peak/1 am peak to 2 am every single night now), etc. There were oddly familiar complaints such as "Universal has lost sight of what HHN is all about, and now all about $$$$" and "Gate opening is not good enough anymore, you should have sprung for the 10 dollar ticket to get into the "Stay and Scream" area."

Not to say that the event isn't facing a capacity issue, but it is to say that these issues aren't unique to current management and it's not as simple as "more, more, more". I'll probably avoid much more in this discussion, but those are my two cents.
 
Reaaaally don't even want to dip my toe into this one, but here we go. I think this is a multi-faceted issue and one that fans don't have the full insight to properly discuss tbh.

1) For one, I think this is an issue that goes beyond HHN Orlando and beyond theme parks as a whole. We can discuss how this same capacity issue is starting to arise in HHN Hollywood, but we can take it one step further and look at tourism as a whole.

Wendover Productions on YouTube put out a phenomenal and in-depth video several months ago (here) about the crowding issue national parks around the country have been seeing in recent years and how it's increasingly hard to find a real solution to the whole thing. The same discussion is actively being had in regards to the concert industry right now. It's increasingly hard to get tickets before they sell out and there's no easy fix unfortunately.

It was discussed during COVID that it was likely that we'd see a travel/entertainment boom once people could start participating in society again and we've reached that stage.

---

2) It's easy for fans on a theme park board to simply go "management bad because lines bad", but it's never that simple and it's hard to fully dive into the issue when the actual logistics behind operations year-to-year are known by very few on here.

The "exaggerated wait times" comment that keeps cycling around is one of those key examples. It's hard to seriously discuss the complexity of that topic when in the past week alone, several users have insisted that it's a conspiracy done intentionally to sell more express passes. It's also hard when it's pointed out as something that's "worse than usual" this year when I've had multiple house management members tell me that higher-ups are pushing them much, much harder than in past years to ensure that those wait times are as accurate as possible.

We also have had endless speculation on adding a show to this venue or that venue with absolute no knowledge on how doable those actually are. There were concerns brought up in the past about the logistics of making use of the Bourne building and Horror Make Up is actively used for a multitude of things from Media Events to RIP Tours and more. It's never as simple as "more, more, more".

We also delve into "sell outs" as if it's an exact science when the unfortunate truth is that there are a lot of predictions at play due to things such as multi-night passes, comps, TM tickets, etc. We judge the event's capacity based on these sold out nights and then end up discussing the fact that it feels less busy than non-sell outs half of the time. We get mad at the overflow of capacity, but then simultaneously judge the event when it sells out, but feels manageable. In a world where capacity is fixed, we likely would see more sell outs to ease the congestion of things inside the park.

---

3) The event is in a rough spot this year for a multitude of reasons. Kidzone construction messed with a sizeable chunk of regular event operations, the lagoon show was effectively destroyed, TLOU/ST combo is an insane crowd draw, etc. A lot of things that will be short term issues fortunately.

---

4) Multi-night passes are absolutely a factor that has to change and to an extent, already has with the massive price increases. There are simply too many bodies in the park at this point and lines are going to have to start being drawn unfortunately.

---

5) Operationally, there are certainly a few simple fixes that can be made such as the addition of umbrellas in certain key locations, not forcing people to "fill in all the gaps" in S&S lines when said queues have already closed to any additional guests, etc.

The queue videos are an every year issue at this point for whatever reason where they don't start being added in some spots until nearly halfway through the event which is fairly baffling. The projector stand near DD didn't go up until like last weekend from what I noticed.

Food service would benefit greatly from more steps in the Minion Cafe esque direction in terms of operations.

---

Conclusion: I don't have the answers, but I also think this discussion brings a lot of snap judgements and armchair engineering. Most of us don't know the inner-workings of the management teams, operational teams, or even the regular ole' house teams.

I'll end by saying it's funny that this discussion happens every single year and has for over 15 years now. These old comments all begged for more event nights (23 nights then, 48 now), more houses (8 then, 10 now), more hours (12 am non-peak/1 am peak to 2 am every single night now), etc. There were oddly familiar complaints such as "Universal has lost sight of what HHN is all about, and now all about $$$$" and "Gate opening is not good enough anymore, you should have sprung for the 10 dollar ticket to get into the "Stay and Scream" area."

Not to say that the event isn't facing a capacity issue, but it is to say that these issues aren't unique to current management and it's not as simple as "more, more, more". I'll probably avoid much more in this discussion, but those are my two cents.
That was a lot more than two cents
 
Reaaaally don't even want to dip my toe into this one, but here we go. I think this is a multi-faceted issue and one that fans don't have the full insight to properly discuss tbh.

1) For one, I think this is an issue that goes beyond HHN Orlando and beyond theme parks as a whole. We can discuss how this same capacity issue is starting to arise in HHN Hollywood, but we can take it one step further and look at tourism as a whole.

Wendover Productions on YouTube put out a phenomenal and in-depth video several months ago (here) about the crowding issue national parks around the country have been seeing in recent years and how it's increasingly hard to find a real solution to the whole thing. The same discussion is actively being had in regards to the concert industry right now. It's increasingly hard to get tickets before they sell out and there's no easy fix unfortunately.

It was discussed during COVID that it was likely that we'd see a travel/entertainment boom once people could start participating in society again and we've reached that stage.

---

2) It's easy for fans on a theme park board to simply go "management bad because lines bad", but it's never that simple and it's hard to fully dive into the issue when the actual logistics behind operations year-to-year are known by very few on here.

The "exaggerated wait times" comment that keeps cycling around is one of those key examples. It's hard to seriously discuss the complexity of that topic when in the past week alone, several users have insisted that it's a conspiracy done intentionally to sell more express passes. It's also hard when it's pointed out as something that's "worse than usual" this year when I've had multiple house management members tell me that higher-ups are pushing them much, much harder than in past years to ensure that those wait times are as accurate as possible.

We also have had endless speculation on adding a show to this venue or that venue with absolute no knowledge on how doable those actually are. There were concerns brought up in the past about the logistics of making use of the Bourne building and Horror Make Up is actively used for a multitude of things from Media Events to RIP Tours and more. It's never as simple as "more, more, more".

We also delve into "sell outs" as if it's an exact science when the unfortunate truth is that there are a lot of predictions at play due to things such as multi-night passes, comps, TM tickets, etc. We judge the event's capacity based on these sold out nights and then end up discussing the fact that it feels less busy than non-sell outs half of the time. We get mad at the overflow of capacity, but then simultaneously judge the event when it sells out, but feels manageable. In a world where capacity is fixed, we likely would see more sell outs to ease the congestion of things inside the park.

---

3) The event is in a rough spot this year for a multitude of reasons. Kidzone construction messed with a sizeable chunk of regular event operations, the lagoon show was effectively destroyed, TLOU/ST combo is an insane crowd draw, etc. A lot of things that will be short term issues fortunately.

---

4) Multi-night passes are absolutely a factor that has to change and to an extent, already has with the massive price increases. There are simply too many bodies in the park at this point and lines are going to have to start being drawn unfortunately.

---

5) Operationally, there are certainly a few simple fixes that can be made such as the addition of umbrellas in certain key locations, not forcing people to "fill in all the gaps" in S&S lines when said queues have already closed to any additional guests, etc.

The queue videos are an every year issue at this point for whatever reason where they don't start being added in some spots until nearly halfway through the event which is fairly baffling. The projector stand near DD didn't go up until like last weekend from what I noticed.

Food service would benefit greatly from more steps in the Minion Cafe esque direction in terms of operations.

---

Conclusion: I don't have the answers, but I also think this discussion brings a lot of snap judgements and armchair engineering. Most of us don't know the inner-workings of the management teams, operational teams, or even the regular ole' house teams.

I'll end by saying it's funny that this discussion happens every single year and has for over 15 years now. These old comments all begged for more event nights (23 nights then, 48 now), more houses (8 then, 10 now), more hours (12 am non-peak/1 am peak to 2 am every single night now), etc. There were oddly familiar complaints such as "Universal has lost sight of what HHN is all about, and now all about $$$$" and "Gate opening is not good enough anymore, you should have sprung for the 10 dollar ticket to get into the "Stay and Scream" area."

Not to say that the event isn't facing a capacity issue, but it is to say that these issues aren't unique to current management and it's not as simple as "more, more, more". I'll probably avoid much more in this discussion, but those are my two cents.

I know the conversation can be exaggerated at times, but thanks for the insight.

Will say that bringing up the comparison between 2007 and now shows how much HHN hasn't actually expanded in comparison to crowds. 2007 had 8 houses, 5 zones and 4 shows... we have 10 houses, 5 zones and 1 show now.

1) I do agree that tourism as a whole somewhat benefitted from Covid a bit - but I also think Universal hasn't adjusted properly to their demand. To this day they still only staff 2 cashiers at Krusty Burger on busy days. It shouldn't be taking 40+ minutes to order/pay for a cafeteria burger.

2) Exaggerated wait-times are true, I don't believe it's being used to sell express as I think it is just a people-displacement action. BUT, they need to be better at reporting because at the moment it's causing a negative experience for DAS users who depend on the wait-time to be posted accurately for their return time. I've seen Yeti posted as 45 minutes while being a mere 5-10 minute wait. Basically telling DAS to wait longer than they really need to.

3) Kidzone isn't much of a capacity boost for the event as it was just utilized for queue space. I do agree that TLOU/ST might be lightning in a bottle and HHN will drop off next year attendance-wise if there's no similar IP power.

4) Yes - remove express for any multi-night passes and increase the cost.

5) They finally added umbrellas this week... but it's only 1 per house and you can barely fit more than 2 TMs under it lol. I thought the Weeknd Queue last year would teach them that people wouldn't mind waiting in a queue if they're being entertained.

This year wait-times are spread out somewhat evenly compared to past years, which shows that

I agree that a lot of the issues this year are short-term to a degree, and might just be lightning in a bottle, but I also see op issues during the daytime... so it's not just contained to HHN.
 
We also delve into "sell outs" as if it's an exact science when the unfortunate truth is that there are a lot of predictions at play due to things such as multi-night passes, comps, TM tickets, etc. We judge the event's capacity based on these sold out nights and then end up discussing the fact that it feels less busy than non-sell outs half of the time. We get mad at the overflow of capacity, but then simultaneously judge the event when it sells out, but feels manageable. In a world where capacity is fixed, we likely would see more sell outs to ease the congestion of things inside the park.

Great points and most of what you wrote is spot-on, especially this one. I think it's easy to just look at the wait time for Exorcist at 10PM and have that anecdote be the impression of how busy a night is (especially when one is expecting a 'sellout' night to be breaking wait time records), but ultimately an HHN event lasts for ~8-9 hours and there are likely going to be different stress points for localized periods within that window.
 
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Reaaaally don't even want to dip my toe into this one, but here we go. I think this is a multi-faceted issue and one that fans don't have the full insight to properly discuss tbh.



Not to say that the event isn't facing a capacity issue, but it is to say that these issues aren't unique to current management and it's not as simple as "more, more, more". I'll probably avoid much more in this discussion, but those are my two cents.
I mean, Universal knows about how many people can go into these events and around how long the lines will be

They are over selling the events, that I hope we can all agree on. While Public park's can't always just close, Universal could sell half the tickets and wow like Magic somehow even general ticket holders can do everything.
They are also over selling express, I honestly think that when almost every night the chucky house at USH is 30-50 mins for express you can just stop selling as many.

I understand money wise they want to make as much as they can but I don't like the idea that us fans can't understand whats going on. It's simple raise the prices of the event and sell less ticket, or at least offer some nights as premium nights where tickets cost more but there are less people and you can even have less hours because if lines are only getting to 45 mins then most everyone can get everything done by midnight.

I also think the FFP need to go, I know some love them but it makes these events harder to track how many people are coming and think the Free General Admission should be where you reverse a date online and can upgrade to express then. Then we can also not have any bad feeling about not seeing express pass on the day of, once they sell out they are gone until 11 PM where they can sell them again if it makes sense per the lines and how full the event is.
 
No shade in the stay and scream areas is insane at this point.

Waiting till a month in to have projectors up in lines year after year is baffling.

No fans in the tightly packed switch back lines when the event starts basically at the end of Florida summer is crazy.

Having NO SET LINE for food booths is probably the dumbest thing going on at HHN. The lines snake directly across the path in some areas making a dam. Other lines are so confusing to people it's anarchy. How is food and drink THIS BAD at Universal Studios? I seriously don't understand who is making these decisions but it seems like it's time to step down.
 
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No shade in the stay and scream areas is insane at this point.

Waiting till a month in to have projectors up in lines year after year is baffling.

No fans in the tightly packed switch back lines when the event starts basically at the end of Florida summer is crazy.

Having NO SET LINE for food booths is probably the dumbest thing going on at HHN. The lines snake directly across the path in some areas making a dam. Other lines are so confusing to people it's anarchy. How is food and drink THIS BAD at Universal Studios? I seriously don't understand who is making these decisions but it seems like it's time to step down.

I can live with crowded scare zones, but these 4 points are just mind-boggling to me. I don't know how a company can create stellar food at Minion Cafe/Potter and then botch it with horrendously slow service at HHN with lines for everything.

They finally added 1 umbrella that could fit maybe 2 TMs under it for the 4-5 TMs at each house entrance. Didn't even put one for the poor TMs out in the queue checking express or at the merge point.

Projectors advertising the event that you are currently in are finally up!