Universal Orlando Resort Expansion News (Part 2)

[zg44]

@Happytycho

Things are more complex than they appear, CPR Money signed an option contract with Stan Thomas for him to be able to buy back the properties they took from him.


So theoretically, he still has the power to sell those lands to Universal by exercising the option contract. That's why the UCPM parcels are still in play.


I believe those parcels will be sold within the next 4 months based on the option timing around May 2019. If Stan Thomas doesn't receive an offer higher than the option price, then the land will go to CPR Money. If Universal or someone else offers a higher price than the option price, he'll use the option and sell the land.


This is probably Universal's best chance to grab those parcels unless they want to wait to see what CPR Money does with it...

 

[natespf]

My assumption is that this is the land in question: I marked the two major plots that Universal wants with a 1 and 2:

Parcel #1 is more important given how close it is in the resort proper. It could either become a water park along with the parcel just to the east, or it could become another resort.

Universal would use parcel #2 as part of a 3000-4000 room hotel complex with the parcels above/below it similar to Endless Summer Resort.


Those 2 parcels are the main ones that Universal wants. [Ignore the ownership labeling, things are more complex than they appear to be.]

Thanks for this, these are the properties I was trying to point out earlier.

South of 2 would be enough space for a smaller waterpark, but if they got 2 they could make a larger waterpark with a resort on either side. Like I said earlier a road connecting these properties makes them on-site, but putting the waterpark over there would make them feel even more integrated in the action.

Or 1 could be a waterpark and have 3 value resorts out on Universal to compete with International Drive, but it is very showy to have the waterpark out on a main street like VB.

 

[Mike S]

What are the chances of Universal buying up those areas still in use so the can have one big continuous property? Because the skinny bits they own around and in between them seem almost useless otherwise.

 

[natespf]

What are the chances of Universal buying up those areas still in use so the can have one big continuous property? Because the skinny bits they own around and in between them seem almost useless otherwise.

The skinny bit between them is just for a road, water drainage, green space and utilities. It's pretty much going to be that either way.

Mario Andretti, Top Golf, and a large tower Westin hotel are already built. The majority of the remainder of the land is owned by Ripley Entertainment. These would probably all be top dollar to buy now with the hopes of using it far in the future. Then there's a little bit on the northern side intended for an apartment complex, I am not sure of the status of this development, if anyone else has additional information.

But the two parcels being discussed are the best bet while there's no current plans for them and the owners are in a bind.

Edit:
Please excuse the crudity of this model.
I didn't have time to build it to scale or paint it.

Also I didn't draw out the crazy property lines for the hotel but it's three parcels of the same owner, I suppose if they do get that 1 plot it could be worth it to also get the unused portion(s) from the Westin.

 

[tielo]

So an interesting little tidbit was recently brought to our attention. It seems that Warner Brothers might be trying to prevent Universal from registering the "Fantastic Worlds" mark.

After a trademark is filed and its application is reviewed and approved by the USPTO, there's a 30 day period where the mark is published in the Official Gazette to notify the public of the intent to register the mark. During this period, any party can file for opposition for any number of reasons, but typically, the most common reason is if they believe the mark is too close to one of their own and may cause confusion.

The Fantastic Worlds mark was published on November 6th 2018, and less than a month later on December 4th, Warner Brothers filed a 30 day Request for Extension of Time to Oppose:

This request was granted, so Warner Brothers then had until January 5th, 2019 to get their case together to file their opposition. However, it seems that the additional 30 days still wasn't enough time, because on January 3rd they filed yet another Request for Extension of Time to Oppose - this time for 60 days and this time with the added language of "for Good Cause" specifically citing the need for "additional time to confer with counsel":

It should be noted that this case is being handled through the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (TTAB), which is a a "kinder, gentler form of litigation. There are no court hearings in TTAB actions, as nearly all matters are handled in writing. The Board does not have authority to impose any monetary sanctions." So Warner Brothers isn't suing Universal or anything serious like that. They now have until March 6th to file their Notice of Opposition which will outline their case for why they believe "Fantastic Worlds" might infringe on their existing marks.

I think it's pretty obvious which mark(s) Warner Brothers thinks the name is too similar to, based on the initial knee-jerk reactions when the Fantastic Worlds mark was first filed.

What's most interesting to me, however, is the fact that any of this is necessary at all. You'd think that if Uni and WB were in discussions about the inclusion of Fantastic Beasts attractions in their new third park that the name of that third park might have come up. I guess it's possible Universal is really that secretive even when working with their largest IP partner, but it just seems like somewhat of an obvious discussion to have considering how similar the name is.

Anyway, we'll be sure to keep an eye on the TTAB side of things for any updates - but I figured this might spark some new, exciting discussion in the meantime!

Great piece of investigation. The whole dispute thing is very common in the business and won't result in a bad relationship. In the end it's just business.
I know when JK filed a Trademark for Fantastical Beasts and where to find them I objected because of my adult movie I had in production (Fantestical Balls and where to fumble them). Eventually the court decided there where hardly any similarities between the 2 movies.

 

[Happytycho]

@Happytycho

Things are more complex than they appear, CPR Money signed an option contract with Stan Thomas for him to be able to buy back the properties they took from him.


So theoretically, he still has the power to sell those lands to Universal by exercising the option contract. That's why the UCPM parcels are still in play.


I believe those parcels will be sold within the next 4 months based on the option timing around May 2019. If Stan Thomas doesn't receive an offer higher than the option price, then the land will go to CPR Money. If Universal or someone else offers a higher price than the option price, he'll use the option and sell the land.


This is probably Universal's best chance to grab those parcels unless they want to wait to see what CPR Money does with it...

I appreciate the clarification on the option situation. I knew that something along those lines existed, but given that deeds to CPR Money have already been filed, I was unsure whether Stan would still be able to sell those parcels, or more importantly, sell them for a profit. We should also remember that the GRE Delta foreclosure lawsuit is still out there and will have to be dealt with for Universal to hold a clear title.

Also, on your colored map, I was under the impression that UCPM III still held the two green parcels, not CPR Money. (I don't recall seeing any deeds for them.)

I definitely agree that Universal basically needs the parcels labeled 1 and 2, but overpaying for them now would make any possible future purchases that much more expensive. I would also think that it would be in Universal's best interest to just buy all of the red bankruptcy properties, rather than allowing them someone else to buy them and build hotels there?

 

[zg44]

I appreciate the clarification on the option situation. I knew that something along those lines existed, but given that deeds to CPR Money have already been filed, I was unsure whether Stan would still be able to sell those parcels, or more importantly, sell them for a profit. We should also remember that the GRE Delta foreclosure lawsuit is still out there and will have to be dealt with for Universal to hold a clear title.

Also, on your colored map, I was under the impression that UCPM III still held the two green parcels, not CPR Money. (I don't recall seeing any deeds for them.)

I definitely agree that Universal basically needs the parcels labeled 1 and 2, but overpaying for them now would make any possible future purchases that much more expensive. I would also think that it would be in Universal's best interest to just buy all of the red bankruptcy properties, rather than allowing them someone else to buy them and build hotels there?

Yeah you're right that UCPM III still holds those 2 green parcels, that's a map I made before it was clear that they only took the bankruptcy parcels.

At this point, I guess that Universal probably doesn't care about overpaying because this is the "end" of the major land buying process until/unless Lockheed decides to move.


Realistically, the only other important (non-Stan Thomas/CPR Money) parcels that aren't built yet appear to be those 2 parcels on Destination to the east of the southernmost part of the Kirkman Extension, the 14 acre Sb Uniorlando LLC plot and 1.8 acre Tax Deed Enterprises II LLC parcels if Universal wants to build a big ~40 acre resort there by combining that with their current parcels and CPR Money/Stan Thomas parcels.

[But we already saw Universal pass on buying that 14 acre plot earlier when it was for sale. I think that was a mistake at the time and they should grab the plot again if possible.]


It feels like they've already decided that they don't want to purchase much more land and have planned out a full resort on the current lands plus those extra parcels they might get soon. That's why we're likely to see an "overpay" here. That's especially because I don't think CPR Money (or GRE Delta) is likely to sell; they're associated with their own developers and might want to have a go at building their own hotels there.

 

[Happytycho]

Yeah you're right that UCPM III still holds those 2 green parcels, that's a map I made before it was clear that they only took the bankruptcy parcels.

At this point, I guess that Universal probably doesn't care about overpaying because this is the "end" of the major land buying process until/unless Lockheed decides to move.


Realistically, the only other important (non-Stan Thomas/CPR Money) parcels that aren't built yet appear to be those 2 parcels on Destination to the east of the southernmost part of the Kirkman Extension, the 14 acre Sb Uniorlando LLC plot and 1.8 acre Tax Deed Enterprises II LLC parcels if Universal wants to build a big ~40 acre resort there by combining that with their current parcels and CPR Money/Stan Thomas parcels.

[But we already saw Universal pass on buying that 14 acre plot earlier when it was for sale. I think that was a mistake at the time and they should grab the plot again if possible.]


It feels like they've already decided that they don't want to purchase much more land and have planned out a full resort on the current lands plus those extra parcels they might get soon. That's why we're likely to see an "overpay" here. That's especially because I don't think CPR Money (or GRE Delta) is likely to sell; they're associated with their own developers and might want to have a go at building their own hotels there.

I concur that this seems to be the end of major land buying. If this really is the end, then they are going to need to be building lots of really tall hotels in order to get their room count up to the level they probably want.

I think I can see why universal passed on those 14 acres though, even if they would have been nice to have. Their parcel there is already 23 acres, and buying the CPR Money and UCPM III ones would add another 10 or so acres. That ~33 acres should be ample for whatever type of resort they want to build, especially considering that they can put parking on the 8 acres across Destination Pkwy and can easily build 15-20 stories tall there without needing to worry about the towers being visible from inside the new parks.

I suppose the interesting question then is price . . . will they spend close to one million dollars an acre on the usable land?

 

[Mad Dog]

I concur that this seems to be the end of major land buying. If this really is the end, then they are going to need to be building lots of really tall hotels in order to get their room count up to the level they probably want.

I think I can see why universal passed on those 14 acres though, even if they would have been nice to have. Their parcel there is already 23 acres, and buying the CPR Money and UCPM III ones would add another 10 or so acres. That ~33 acres should be ample for whatever type of resort they want to build, especially considering that they can put parking on the 8 acres across Destination Pkwy and can easily build 15-20 stories tall there without needing to worry about the towers being visible from inside the new parks.

I suppose the interesting question then is price . . . will they spend close to one million dollars an acre on the usable land?

Tall hotels seem to be their trend now anyway. Plus any height issues at the new park site was basically alleviated with those changes a couple of years ago.

 

[zg44]

I concur that this seems to be the end of major land buying. If this really is the end, then they are going to need to be building lots of really tall hotels in order to get their room count up to the level they probably want.

I think I can see why universal passed on those 14 acres though, even if they would have been nice to have. Their parcel there is already 23 acres, and buying the CPR Money and UCPM III ones would add another 10 or so acres. That ~33 acres should be ample for whatever type of resort they want to build, especially considering that they can put parking on the 8 acres across Destination Pkwy and can easily build 15-20 stories tall there without needing to worry about the towers being visible from inside the new parks.

I suppose the interesting question then is price . . . will they spend close to one million dollars an acre on the usable land?

As far as price goes, Universal is going to have to cover GRE Delta's debt to unencumber those parcels as well as give Stan Thomas enough that he can take that money to try to fix his other development projects.


Realistically, I do expect around $1-1.25 million per acre on Parcels 1-2 as well as the developable land around OCCC that would be included.

 

[darkridelover]

I'm becoming a fan of "Laversine."



(Say "Universal" backwards.)

I'm pretty sure that isn't Universal spelled backwards. Or anyway. Lol

 

[Legacy]

I'm pretty sure that isn't Universal spelled backwards. Or anyway. Lol

That's why I said "Say."

 

[natespf]

LasrevinU sounds like a University.

 

[shiekra38]

I'm pretty sure that isn't Universal spelled backwards. Or anyway. Lol

 

[Mike S]

LasrevinU sounds like a University.

Or a weird way to say “lost revenue.”

 

[shiekra38]

Or a weird way to say “lost revenue.”

Or Lots-a-revenue

 

[natespf]

Or a weird way to say “lost revenue.”

Haha, I totally did not realize that. I was putting a break like WhatsamattaU, but saying it straight it definitely sounds like that.

 

[truejonas]

I'm becoming a fan of "Laversine."



(Say "Universal" backwards.)

Not gonna lie, that's sure pretty. I'd name a child Laversine, or at the very least a dog.

 

[tielo]

If I was designing this park, that whole purple strip around Rosen Shingle Creek would be a great garbage dump location. I would probably redesign my plan if the owners wanted to sell it to me.
But in all seriousness, are we looking at future "good neighborhood" hotels?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

If I was designing this park, that whole purple strip around Rosen Shingle Creek would be a great garbage dump location. I would probably redesign my plan if the owners wanted to sell it to me.
But in all seriousness, are we looking at future "good neighborhood" hotels?

My guess is all those really bad looking hotels will remodel themselves and make I-Drive look somewhat nicer with the expected attendance increase. I would not be surprised if Universal and the City "partner up" to make the whole area in between look nice.