Universal Orlando Resort Expansion News (Part 2)

[truejonas]

Oh god, imagine driving down the road and turning to see one of those freaky things driving.

Some kids would be going home with new nightmares.

 

[Mad Dog]

Pittsburgh is one of the world centers for the self driving systems, with both Uber & Ford testing centers based here. Initial reports, which is covered in the news here often, is that progress is much slower than anticipated and it's going to be far in he future before these systems are dependable.....With how skittish the lawyers get over a once in a 100 million rider sticking his leg out and getting his ankle twisted, and redoing the ride unload over it, I can't see Universal doing that until it's a long proven system. I can't imagine Universal legal approving something like that where there's so much potential for accidents at this developmental stage.

 

[Scott W.]

Pittsburgh is one of the world centers for the self driving systems, with both Uber & Ford testing centers based here. Initial reports, which is covered in the news here often, is that progress is much slower than anticipated and it's going to be far in he future before these systems are dependable.....With how skittish the lawyers get over a once in a 100 million rider sticking his leg out and getting his ankle twisted, and redoing the ride unload over it, I can't see Universal doing that until it's a long proven system. I can't imagine Universal legal approving something like that where there's so much potential for accidents at this developmental stage.

I feel like progress is being made at an alarming rate as it seems like only a few years ago that self driving cars could actually become a reality. There will be a point where self driving cars are more reliable than a human and already, insurance companies will be getting squeamish at the thought.

If progress is made to the point that the system becomes utterly flawless, I do wonder how this will change attendance and possibly hotel stays. As the technology develops, the basic layout concept of a car will change and if you can end up with something like a small RV where you can sleep behind the wheel, a day trip for people a thousand miles away can become a breeze.

Set off at night, go for a sleep in your car and wake up at the park. Have your fun, get back in your car, fall asleep and wake up at home the next morning, no hotel needed.

 

[Mad Dog]

I feel like progress is being made at an alarming rate as it seems like only a few years ago that self driving cars could actually become a reality. There will be a point where self driving cars are more reliable than a human and already, insurance companies will be getting squeamish at the thought.

If progress is made to the point that the system becomes utterly flawless, I do wonder how this will change attendance and possibly hotel stays. As the technology develops, the basic layout concept of a car will change and if you can end up with something like a small RV where you can sleep behind the wheel, a day trip for people a thousand miles away can become a breeze.

Set off at night, go for a sleep in your car and wake up at the park. Have your fun, get back in your car, fall asleep and wake up at home the next morning, no hotel needed.

The local reports I'm reading are saying progress has really stalled since these systems are having difficulty reading simple road changes, like lines, and reacting to them. It's going to be a long long time until these things are workable, and they're saying they'll still probably require human drivers to be there and awake. One reason they're using Pittsburgh as testing grounds is that the terrain changes rapidly and the roads aren't straight grid patterns, and the self driving vehicles aren't working out very well thus far on these challenges. A couple of years ago the reports were optimistic, but now they're more pessimistic than anything else. Additionally, there's growing resistance from government entities to enact rules disallowing the vehicles from operating due to safety concerns.

 

[bob albert]

I think a place like universal would be fine for use of current driverless tech. They only need to focus on specific routes that they can maintain accordingly so the buses don't get tripped up by not being able to read deteriorating lines or signs. I think we will see a lot of driverless cars on routes like these first before they are approved for broader use.

 

[JoeCamel]

I feel like progress is being made at an alarming rate as it seems like only a few years ago that self driving cars could actually become a reality. There will be a point where self driving cars are more reliable than a human and already, insurance companies will be getting squeamish at the thought.

If progress is made to the point that the system becomes utterly flawless, I do wonder how this will change attendance and possibly hotel stays. As the technology develops, the basic layout concept of a car will change and if you can end up with something like a small RV where you can sleep behind the wheel, a day trip for people a thousand miles away can become a breeze.

Set off at night, go for a sleep in your car and wake up at the park. Have your fun, get back in your car, fall asleep and wake up at home the next morning, no hotel needed.

The local reports I'm reading are saying progress has really stalled since these systems are having difficulty reading simple road changes, like lines, and reacting to them. It's going to be a long long time until these things are workable, and they're saying they'll still probably require human drivers to be there and awake. One reason they're using Pittsburgh as testing grounds is that the terrain changes rapidly and the roads aren't straight grid patterns, and the self driving vehicles aren't working out very well thus far on these challenges. A couple of years ago the reports were optimistic, but now they're more pessimistic than anything else. Additionally, there's growing resistance from government entities to enact rules disallowing the vehicles from operating due to safety concerns.

I think the major problem is the road imaging and sudden intrusions into the space the vehicle will occupy. Current tech is very poor when it comes to worn road markings and a pedestrian entering the road with non-reflective clothing. Pretty sure it will not be Universal taking the tech on the road but a government entity which will have limited liability in the event of an "accident".

 

[Galactus]

Specifically, it's the edge cases for self driving car tech that's difficult. I'm confident in saying that lines on a major highway like I-4 would never get faded enough to run into issues, nor would the lines on major tourist roads. Also in FL you'd never have to deal with snow covering lanes. Heavy rain would be an issue however, I'm not sure how well LIDAR (the radar tech used in self driving cars) can penetrate through the rain. Seeing people in clear conditions is not an issue since the state of the art in self driving uses radar based tech, regardless of what they're wearing.

This kind of requirement is pretty close to a perfect use (minus the rain) for the current self driving tech we have. Maybe Universal could roll it out with human drivers supervising for a little bit just in case. But it seems like a great bit of publicity for the new resort as well.

 

[truejonas]

There will be a point where self driving cars are more reliable than a human and already, insurance companies will be getting squeamish at the thought.

Huh. Never thought of it from the insurance aspect. Traditional insurance as we know it would go out the window.

Set off at night, go for a sleep in your car and wake up at the park. Have your fun, get back in your car, fall asleep and wake up at home the next morning, no hotel needed.

I momentarily worried about people no longer using hotels for Universal trips...but when a self-driving RV comes to pass, they'll build a themed RV park for people to stay in. Plus there will always be people who would prefer to stay in a traditional hotel for one reason or another.

 

[RichOBJ]

Busy day ... But here's another BIG story Paywall link below, but here's some deets:

Two parcels of Stan Thomas' old land are up for sale now (22 acres and 34 acres) both fronting Universal Boulevard. One is across from the Eye and the other is east of the Hilton property on the south side of UOR's land.

There's going to be a normal call for offers, but I can't imagine Comcast not sealing up those final two parcels that can give it two more entry ways.

Story is paywalled, but here's the link: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/02/21/exclusive-final-2-major-parcels-to-complete.html

 

[Scott W.]

Busy day ... But here's another BIG story Paywall link below, but here's some deets:

Two parcels of Stan Thomas' old land are up for sale now (22 acres and 34 acres) both fronting Universal Boulevard. One is across from the Eye and the other is east of the Hilton property on the south side of UOR's land.

There's going to be a normal call for offers, but I can't imagine Comcast not sealing up those final two parcels that can give it two more entry ways.

Story is paywalled, but here's the link: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/02/21/exclusive-final-2-major-parcels-to-complete.html

These would probably also make for some great value hotels.

 

[Brian G.]

Busy day ... But here's another BIG story Paywall link below, but here's some deets:

Two parcels of Stan Thomas' old land are up for sale now (22 acres and 34 acres) both fronting Universal Boulevard. One is across from the Eye and the other is east of the Hilton property on the south side of UOR's land.

There's going to be a normal call for offers, but I can't imagine Comcast not sealing up those final two parcels that can give it two more entry ways.

Story is paywalled, but here's the link: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/02/21/exclusive-final-2-major-parcels-to-complete.html

BILBOMB ALERT ****plays air horn****

 

[RichOBJ]

BILBOMB ALERT ****plays air horn****

 

[natespf]

Posting this again for context...

 

[Happytycho]

It's not at all surprising that these parcels are going to be sold, but this announcement is interesting because I don't think these sellers have a clear title to the land yet.

 

[zg44]

It's not at all surprising that these parcels are going to be sold, but this announcement is interesting because I don't think these sellers have a clear title to the land yet.

I'd assume that CPR Money and GRE Delta are both going to be involved in the sale of those 2 parcels given they're the main valued pieces backing their loans to Stan Thomas.

Any offer is going to have to be large enough to clear most of the various debts that Stan Thomas has built up against UCPM III/OHL; I'd expect at least $35-40 million will be required.


The parcels have to be sold by June given the various timings of Stan Thomas' options with CPR Money and his court issues in Nashville.


Needless to say, I'd be surprised if Comcast/Universal allow these parcels to go to outsiders. They'll probably see what the other offers are and then win them.

 

[Happytycho]

I'd assume that CPR Money and GRE Delta are both going to be involved in the sale of those 2 parcels given they're the main valued pieces backing their loans to Stan Thomas.

Any offer is going to have to be large enough to clear most of the various debts that Stan Thomas has built up against UCPM III/OHL; I'd expect at least $35-40 million will be required.


The parcels have to be sold by June given the various timings of Stan Thomas' options with CPR Money and his court issues in Nashville.


Needless to say, I'd be surprised if Comcast/Universal allow these parcels to go to outsiders. They'll probably see what the other offers are and then win them.

I'm intrigued because the article reads like CPR Money is the one offering them for sale, but I would think that they would make more money off of the sale if they don't sell until after Stan Thomas' options expire?

 

[zg44]

I'm intrigued because the article reads like CPR Money is the one offering them for sale, but I would think that they would make more money off of the sale if they don't sell until after Stan Thomas' options expire?

Yeah, good point on that. If CPR Money is the one offering them for sale, then unless the options were somehow cancelled (under a condition not made public in their side agreements related to the option), Stan Thomas would have had to agree to them listing the properties.

The option agreement was pretty clear that only if Stan Thomas agreed that they could list the properties prior to the May 10, 2019 expiration date.

So it does sound as if Stan Thomas wants them to sell the properties in exchange for negating the various portion of debts that he owes on those properties.

Also worth noting that CPR Money does have liens against his other properties, so he may not have had much of a choice in the matter. At this point, CPR Money might be trying to get whatever they can before his other lenders go after some of his other properties... It's probably pretty clear that Stan Thomas won't be able to purchase these lands for himself given his other debt issues.


Another possibility is that Universal was hardballing Stan Thomas given the news earlier in his Nashville case that he was trying to sell more Orlando land to Universal, and CPR Money got tired of waiting and told him they wanted to list the properties publicly to see what kind of offers others would give; that would set a base for Universal to purchase them.

 

[Happytycho]

Posting this again for context...

I think it's pretty unlikely that a connecting road like that ever gets built because it wouldn't be worth the cost just to slightly shorten the distance from one or two value hotels when they can use the already existing Universal Blvd. The strip of land Universal owns on the south side of Lockheed Martin isn't much wider than the canal/drainage easement in some places, so building a large road would be a very large and expensive undertaking considering the return value.

 

[WAJAS]

I think it's pretty unlikely that a connecting road like that ever gets built because it wouldn't be worth the cost just to slightly shorten the distance from one or two value hotels when they can use the already existing Universal Blvd. The strip of land Universal owns on the south side of Lockheed Martin isn't much wider than the canal/drainage easement in some places, so building a large road would be a very large and expensive undertaking considering the return value.

It wouldn't be built by then. Orange County has a long-range transportation plan for the area, which includes an extension to Mandarin Way to relieve future congestion on Universal Boulevard. It would be built by the country. In fact, a portion of it has already been built past Top Golf.

 

[Happytycho]

It wouldn't be built by then. Orange County has a long-range transportation plan for the area, which includes an extension to Mandarin Way to relieve future congestion on Universal Boulevard. It would be built by the country. In fact, a portion of it has already been built past Top Golf.

The county is going to build a road through Universal's new theme park?
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