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Brightline Station Coming to Walt Disney World

shiekra38

Legendary Member
Dec 13, 2009
13,870
Florida
Is it even feasible to get a rail line close to Universal? No doubt there’s some exclusivity in the agreement but I don’t even know if you could get to current UOR if you tried without buying out businesses and hotels to bulldoze.

And for the Convention Center - a good number of those people are expensing their Ubers and taxis so it holds less appeal.
This is a good point, I'm not entirely sure if it's possible or feasible.

In the past, airport transportation directly to Disney has led to people being "trapped" on Disney property

Of course, with the advent of Uber and Lyft I suppose that's a bit different than 2008

Still though, that's an extra cost to an already expensive vacation
 

WAJAS

Veteran Member
Aug 15, 2014
3,520
--Classified--
Is that even still happening? I haven't heard anything on that in forever.
I-Drive businesses still want it, and the county seems up for it.

However, the Final Preferred Alternative was for Buss Rapid Transit (BRT), which if done well can actually mimic light rail pretty well. LA has some BRT lines that are similar to their Light Rail.
 

SkiBum

Veteran Member
Dec 14, 2012
1,611
Cincinnati, OH
I-Drive businesses still want it, and the county seems up for it.

However, the Final Preferred Alternative was for Buss Rapid Transit (BRT), which if done well can actually mimic light rail pretty well. LA has some BRT lines that are similar to their Light Rail.
I rode a form of a BRT in Boston that worked well. It went from the Back Bay area to the airport and predominantly used tunnels like a subway. Using the Magical Express, I have been stuck in a traffic jam just once but it was a long trip. Fortunately, that three hour prior to flight pickup works really well.
 

Magic Feather

Member
Apr 19, 2019
674
Any station that goes to universal (which Disney will lobby like heck against) will most likely just go to the South Property.
 
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Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,851
Orlando
Any station that goes to universal (which Disney will lobby like heck against) will most likely just go to the South Property.
Disney would pay a ton of money to Brightline in whatever legal way they could for Brightline to NOT build a Universal station. I can't imagine it'll ever happen.
 
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GAcoaster

V.I.P.
Nov 30, 2012
4,587
Orlando
But Brightline may eventually build some kind of service from the airport to the Convention Center. That would also serve EU and Universal. You never know when the right package of incentives (between the county, city, Comcast, Tourism Association, etc.) comes along to make that happen. There's not much Disney could do about it once their station is built unless they put a clause in their contract that forbids it specifically (which is possible).
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,851
Orlando
But Brightline may eventually build some kind of service from the airport to the Convention Center. That would also serve EU and Universal. You never know when the right package of incentives (between the county, city, Comcast, Tourism Association, etc.) comes along to make that happen. There's not much Disney could do about it once their station is built unless they put a clause in their contract that forbids it specifically (which is possible).
Yes, but as has been pointed out, if you are headed to the convention center, there's a decent chance that your trip is being expensed, so why if your trip is paid for, why would you want Train-only transportation to select destinations only instead of the freedom of being able to go wherever you want in an uber/rideshare?
 

WAJAS

Veteran Member
Aug 15, 2014
3,520
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Yes, but as has been pointed out, if you are headed to the convention center, there's a decent chance that your trip is being expensed, so why if your trip is paid for, why would you want Train-only transportation to select destinations only instead of the freedom of being able to go wherever you want in an uber/rideshare?
When there's traffic, the train will be a faster way to get there, which is a reason to take it.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,851
Orlando
When there's traffic, the train will be a faster way to get there, which is a reason to take it.
Yes, and when there's a big convention this is certainly a fair point. But with Brightline being a private corporation, they need to know that there will be consistent heavy ridership along this line or why spend the money to do it? I think that's a reasonable question to ask is if it would have that ridership.

If Universal built a bus station outside of the Brightline station at OCCC and offered free transport from the OCCC stop on their own private land or county land, then I could see the line being more sustainable as Universal would have a bus connection at the station. But again, Disney will fight hard to try and make sure that doesn't happen.
 
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WAJAS

Veteran Member
Aug 15, 2014
3,520
--Classified--
Yes, and when there's a big convention this is certainly a fair point. But with Brightline being a private corporation, they need to know that there will be consistent heavy ridership along this line or why spend the money to do it? I think that's a reasonable question to ask is if it would have that ridership.

If Universal built a bus station outside of the Brightline station at OCCC and offered free transport from the OCCC stop on their own private land or county land, then I could see the line being more sustainable as Universal would have a bus connection at the station. But again, Disney will fight hard to try and make sure that doesn't happen.
I should have read more of the context behind your post. I think a light rail to OCCC would be great, but there is almost no benefit to Brightline doing it besides county incentives/requirements.
 
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GAcoaster

V.I.P.
Nov 30, 2012
4,587
Orlando
I think so much of what we knew about the way things happen with conventions may change drastically after Covid. So many things that "had to be in person" we now know didn't. I wonder how long it will take the convention business to recover or if it will? The virus may continue to be a great disruptor and hasten changes that were already happening.
 

fryoj

Premium Member
May 19, 2013
3,100
I think so much of what we knew about the way things happen with conventions may change drastically after Covid. So many things that "had to be in person" we now know didn't. I wonder how long it will take the convention business to recover or if it will? The virus may continue to be a great disruptor and hasten changes that were already happening.
I could see a lot of companies seeing that sending employees to conventions is a waste of money and time. Especially if they are doing belt tightening. The big "public" conventions probably survive. But the national bathroom fixture type conventions could be in trouble.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,851
Orlando
I could see a lot of companies seeing that sending employees to conventions is a waste of money and time. Especially if they are doing belt tightening. The big "public" conventions probably survive. But the national bathroom fixture type conventions could be in trouble.
Fan conventions will definitely survive. People don't go to those for the announcements, they go to those for the experience of being around like-minded fans, to cosplay, etc. The private conventions will be in trouble as you are mentioning though as you can just do Zoom/Skype/Teams calls for most things. We've done a 9 month experiment on this now and not only is it working, many people prefer sitting at home, half dressed for work and half dressed for leisure and having shortened times of talking to clients rather than having to spend entire nights, dressed up and being fake.

Obviously business conventions won't go away, but there will surely be less of them.
 

Magic Feather

Member
Apr 19, 2019
674
Disney has made it clear that if an OCCC line/Universal line is happening, they are out. At the beginning of deciding on their Orlando to Tampa extension, Brightline had the choice. They chose Disney.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,851
Orlando
Disney has made it clear that if an OCCC line/Universal line is happening, they are out. At the beginning of deciding on their Orlando to Tampa extension, Brightline had the choice. They chose Disney.
And i'm sure the contract is very well written to try and prevent any future line that would include OCCC/Universal.
 
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shiekra38

Legendary Member
Dec 13, 2009
13,870
Florida
Disney has made it clear that if an OCCC line/Universal line is happening, they are out. At the beginning of deciding on their Orlando to Tampa extension, Brightline had the choice. They chose Disney.
Tourist: "Excuse me, can you get to Harry Potter World from Disney Springs?"

Brightline Crew Member: *shakes fist towards sky* CURSE YOU UNIVERSALLLL
 
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Happytycho

Member
Mar 1, 2017
670
Brightline is now telling investors that they are targeting late 2023 for the commencement of service to the station at Disney Springs.

A supplement to their Ridership and Revenue study projects that the station at Disney Springs will add 780,000 annual trips with an average fare of $100. (!!)

Note that these are forward-looking statements and come with no guarantee of accuracy.

About the agreement with Disney, they say that "the Company's ability to construct and operate the station at Disney Springs is subject to satisfaction of various provisions of the ground lease agreement between the Company and Walt Disney World Resort, including timely payment of ground lease rent and compliance with milestones regarding commencement of revenue service, completion of construction and aggregate seat capacity. In addition, the ground lease agreement provides for early termination by Walt Disney World Resort subject to payment of specified fees and costs."

This all comes from the (very long) official statement for a current bond remarketing, found here: Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board::EMMA
 

Happytycho

Member
Mar 1, 2017
670
Brightline is now giving subtle indications that the Brightline West project between LA and Vegas is their next priority with aspirations of breaking ground in 2021.

This is unsurprising given that MCO-Disney-Tampa has no right-of-way secured and environmental reviews not yet begun.

I'd say there's approximately zero chance that a Disney station opens in 2023.