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Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness

Scott Derrickson wanted the villian to be nightmare but Marvel disagreed and wanted Wanda while they were working on Wandavision. I think NIghtmare would've been better for this. I think the issue with Wanda being the villian, we saw her slide into that pyschotic level of control in Wandavision, saw how she decided to go good then go back into the darkness. It doesn't make logical sense even with the Darkhold.

That's not the reason why SD left the project. Raimi was fully prepared to shoot the version of the movie that was already being prepped by SD. Then covid hit and the studio asked him if he would like to redo the story.
 
but..... what are your opinions on spiderman 3?

It's fine. It delves slightly too far into hokey territory but could be a lot worse. I like when movies are weird. Even if Spiderman 3 is awful, that doesn't mean it detracts from everything else Raimi has made.
 
Scott Derrickson wanted the villian to be nightmare but Marvel disagreed and wanted Wanda while they were working on Wandavision. I think NIghtmare would've been better for this. I think the issue with Wanda being the villian, we saw her slide into that pyschotic level of control in Wandavision, saw how she decided to go good then go back into the darkness. It doesn't make logical sense even with the Darkhold.
I understand by the end of WV she has realized that she has to let Vision, her kids, and Westview go, but that didn't mean she was going to stop searching for them, as was obvious in the post-credits scene where she was furiously reading through the Darkhold.
 
I understand by the end of WV she has realized that she has to let Vision, her kids, and Westview go, but that didn't mean she was going to stop searching for them, as was obvious in the post-credits scene where she was furiously reading through the Darkhold.

wanda is willing to destroy entire universes to get her kids, shes literally told she could destroy the entire universe. shes fine with it.
this makes Wanda worse than Thanos and Ultron, worse than even loki. this movie implies that wanda is a worse villain than thanos himself.... (wanda mourns the loss of vision and her kids.... but is willing to murder billions of people across the multiverse?
:jawdrop:
 
wanda is willing to destroy entire universes to get her kids, shes literally told she could destroy the entire universe. shes fine with it.
this makes Wanda worse than Thanos and Ultron, worse than even loki. this movie implies that wanda is a worse villain than thanos himself.... (wanda mourns the loss of vision and her kids.... but is willing to murder billions of people across the multiverse?
:jawdrop:
I'm not going to sit here and act like Wanda was a perfectly written villain, but i'll die on the hill that she should have been the villain. Michael Waldron maybe wasn't the right guy to write Wanda's character in this movie. If it were me, I would've had Jac Schaeffer on as a co-writer on the film to specifically oversee Wanda and make sure that her character was being done right and was a three dimensional villain.

They needed to actual give Wanda a bit more of the Thanos treatment imo. Not go full Thanos, I don't mean that. Thanos was a perfect, three-dimensional villain. He wanted to wipe out half the population, so we're told by the writers right there that he's our most imposing villain that The Avengers will face yet, but at the same time, you can still understand where he's coming from and what his goal is. Yes, he wants to commit mass genocide, but the writers DID make you think about his plan and made his logic compelling enough that it was easy to see his side of it, even if it was wrong.
 
I thought they did a good job explaining how corrupting and dangerous the Darkhold was. I saw it it almost as a form of addiction. Wanda had compounded trauma throughout her life, and in her search for her children the Darkhold corrupted her deeper and deeper. For Harry Potter fans it operates like a more evil version of the horcrux locket. The more you wear it, the more it effects you.
 
I thought they did a good job explaining how corrupting and dangerous the Darkhold was. I saw it it almost as a form of addiction. Wanda had compounded trauma throughout her life, and in her search for her children the Darkhold corrupted her deeper and deeper. For Harry Potter fans it operates like a more evil version of the horcrux locket. The more you wear it, the more it effects you.
I agree that for the most part they did a good job. Like I said, I enjoy this movie. Is she a perfect villain? No. But to me, I thought WandaVision and MoM both went together pretty well. Like i've said, I don't really understand the logic behind those that have said it makes no sense she was a villain. I thought that was blatantly obvious. I do think Jac Schaffer would've helped with fleshing her out just a bit more for audiences who have not seen WV as she oversaw Wanda for all of WV.
 
I agree that for the most part they did a good job. Like I said, I enjoy this movie. Is she a perfect villain? No. But to me, I thought WandaVision and MoM both went together pretty well. Like i've said, I don't really understand the logic behind those that have said it makes no sense she was a villain. I thought that was blatantly obvious. I do think Jac Schaffer would've helped with fleshing her out just a bit more for audiences who have not seen WV as she oversaw Wanda for all of WV.

Agreed (though I do think she's one of Marvel's better villains), which is why I think the twist worked well. I think part of the pushback on Wanda comes from everyone STANing her and empathizing with her situation during WV. Everyone expected her to be the hero she's always been, but she was so hellbent on reuniting with her kids that the Darkhold's corruption hit her with ease. We could sympathize with her POV but disagree with her methods.

I saw it again recently and still think it's a flawed but fun film. I love Raimi's style and some of the horror elements were done very well.

I think the movie could've benefitted from some Vision talk. With Wanda's pain being a big part of the story, I feel his absence was *ahem* strange.
 
Agreed (though I do think she's one of Marvel's better villains), which is why I think the twist worked well. I think part of the pushback on Wanda comes from everyone STANing her and empathizing with her situation during WV. Everyone expected her to be the hero she's always been, but she was so hellbent on reuniting with her kids that the Darkhold's corruption hit her with ease. We could sympathize with her POV but disagree with her methods.

I saw it again recently and still think it's a flawed but fun film. I love Raimi's style and some of the horror elements were done very well.

I think the movie could've benefitted from some Vision talk. With Wanda's pain being a big part of the story, I feel his absence was *ahem* strange.
Agreed, I don't understand why he could not be in the film...considering that Dr Strange helped them beat Thanos before he ever got to earth...Vision should be alive in that Universe
 
I'm not going to sit here and act like Wanda was a perfectly written villain, but i'll die on the hill that she should have been the villain. Michael Waldron maybe wasn't the right guy to write Wanda's character in this movie. If it were me, I would've had Jac Schaeffer on as a co-writer on the film to specifically oversee Wanda and make sure that her character was being done right and was a three dimensional villain.

They needed to actual give Wanda a bit more of the Thanos treatment imo. Not go full Thanos, I don't mean that. Thanos was a perfect, three-dimensional villain. He wanted to wipe out half the population, so we're told by the writers right there that he's our most imposing villain that The Avengers will face yet, but at the same time, you can still understand where he's coming from and what his goal is. Yes, he wants to commit mass genocide, but the writers DID make you think about his plan and made his logic compelling enough that it was easy to see his side of it, even if it was wrong.
I thought they did a good job explaining how corrupting and dangerous the Darkhold was. I saw it it almost as a form of addiction. Wanda had compounded trauma throughout her life, and in her search for her children the Darkhold corrupted her deeper and deeper. For Harry Potter fans it operates like a more evil version of the horcrux locket. The more you wear it, the more it effects you.


im not a wanda Stan or superfan but the story structure of wandavision and this movie is very very poorly done, it feels like two different companies in two different countries did wandavision and this movie separately,
wandavision literally made us empathize with her heavily and almost forced people to connect with Wanda emotionally (wanda GOOD, big army man BAD!)
if anything wandavision had the chance to make wanda the true villain of the show as well, (we didnt need agatha)
wanda kidnapped an entire town of people and was torturing them, to the point of begging for death,
wanda should have been the villain of wandavision then, full evil wanda
but instead we got quirky fun loving warm mom wanda, silly funny loving wife wanda, which was good for the show by itself, but it doesnt work alongside this movie at all. Wanda from wandavision and wanda from this movie are simply not the same character. not the same values, not the same personality.
if anything wandavision ruins this movie or vice versa. it becomes a terrible viewing if you watch both on the same day,
the movie makes it feel like she completely forgot the ultron destruction and the death of her brother. like if this wanda was a brand new wanda.
it literally feels like a brand new evil wanda from another universe... like terminator and terminator 2, but in reverse. good arnold/ wanda, different evil arnold/ wanda (i would have accepted if this new wanda WAS from a different universe, she already acts like it
"but what about the darkhold, the darkhold corrupting her?"
so wanda had zero control? no free will? she was fully controlled to the point of betraying her inner values and personality:? by that point, have her be actually possessed by a demon, you might as well have her be possessed by a different villain. theres almost nothing left of the original wanda. the darkhold is so powerful that she becomes a new character.
its just pretty bad planning and cotinuation from wandavision to this movie, very very plot planning. this movie would have been better without wandavision existing,
 
im not a wanda Stan or superfan but the story structure of wandavision and this movie is very very poorly done, it feels like two different companies in two different countries did wandavision and this movie separately,
wandavision literally made us empathize with her heavily and almost forced people to connect with Wanda emotionally (wanda GOOD, big army man BAD!)
if anything wandavision had the chance to make wanda the true villain of the show as well, (we didnt need agatha)
wanda kidnapped an entire town of people and was torturing them, to the point of begging for death,
wanda should have been the villain of wandavision then, full evil wanda
but instead we got quirky fun loving warm mom wanda, silly funny loving wife wanda, which was good for the show by itself, but it doesnt work alongside this movie at all. Wanda from wandavision and wanda from this movie are simply not the same character. not the same values, not the same personality.
if anything wandavision ruins this movie or vice versa. it becomes a terrible viewing if you watch both on the same day,
the movie makes it feel like she completely forgot the ultron destruction and the death of her brother. like if this wanda was a brand new wanda.
it literally feels like a brand new evil wanda from another universe... like terminator and terminator 2, but in reverse. good arnold/ wanda, different evil arnold/ wanda (i would have accepted if this new wanda WAS from a different universe, she already acts like it
"but what about the darkhold, the darkhold corrupting her?"
so wanda had zero control? no free will? she was fully controlled to the point of betraying her inner values and personality:? by that point, have her be actually possessed by a demon, you might as well have her be possessed by a different villain. theres almost nothing left of the original wanda. the darkhold is so powerful that she becomes a new character.
its just pretty bad planning and cotinuation from wandavision to this movie, very very plot planning. this movie would have been better without wandavision existing,
Its leading her

like she is still Wanda but its whispering in her ear "they want to keep you from your kids" and she knows none of them can or would help her get to them

This is what makes a villain, they have a good reason to do evil
 
im not a wanda Stan or superfan but the story structure of wandavision and this movie is very very poorly done, it feels like two different companies in two different countries did wandavision and this movie separately,
wandavision literally made us empathize with her heavily and almost forced people to connect with Wanda emotionally (wanda GOOD, big army man BAD!)
if anything wandavision had the chance to make wanda the true villain of the show as well, (we didnt need agatha)
wanda kidnapped an entire town of people and was torturing them, to the point of begging for death,
wanda should have been the villain of wandavision then, full evil wanda
but instead we got quirky fun loving warm mom wanda, silly funny loving wife wanda, which was good for the show by itself, but it doesnt work alongside this movie at all. Wanda from wandavision and wanda from this movie are simply not the same character. not the same values, not the same personality.
if anything wandavision ruins this movie or vice versa. it becomes a terrible viewing if you watch both on the same day,
the movie makes it feel like she completely forgot the ultron destruction and the death of her brother. like if this wanda was a brand new wanda.
it literally feels like a brand new evil wanda from another universe... like terminator and terminator 2, but in reverse. good arnold/ wanda, different evil arnold/ wanda (i would have accepted if this new wanda WAS from a different universe, she already acts like it
"but what about the darkhold, the darkhold corrupting her?"
so wanda had zero control? no free will? she was fully controlled to the point of betraying her inner values and personality:? by that point, have her be actually possessed by a demon, you might as well have her be possessed by a different villain. theres almost nothing left of the original wanda. the darkhold is so powerful that she becomes a new character.
its just pretty bad planning and cotinuation from wandavision to this movie, very very plot planning. this movie would have been better without wandavision existing,
Well, as I said, there was different writers. Jac Schaeffer was the head writer on WandaVision and wasn't brought on for MoM. Michael Waldron, who was the head writer on Loki, wrote the movie by himself. That's probably what leads to it feeling different.

I get wanting to bring on Waldron since he had sort of dealt with multiverse concepts in Loki, but I think they were missing the balance to properly handle Wanda and flesh her out a bit more by not bringing back Jac Schaeffer as well.
 
this review/analysis did a better job at conveying and vocalizing what i was trying to say, ironic that got released today, he explained better on some of my points how it nesses up but better articulated lol
 
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