Flight of Passage

[GA-MBIT]

Considered leaving this in the General Avatar DAK thread but saw that River Journey has had a seperate thread for some time now so

I was surprised when a friend and I rode FoP the other week with only a 35 minute wait. Not because of the outlier wait time, it was a very slow day at the park, but because of our reactions to the ride itself. At one point, this had been my friend and I's favorite Walt Disney World attraction. We didn't know each other back then, but she came down to DAK from California in 2017. Before she went, she was expecting to be returning home trashing the land to her friends, but instead found herself singing its' praises as an incredible attraction that was unlike anything she'd seen before. I was the same way, I was fiercely skeptical and critical of the Avatar project since it's early announcements around 2014 or so, so when I rode it for the first time in 2017 I was shocked that it was the most incredible ride experience I had ever been through up to that point. The wind, water, and smell effects were so varied and detailed, the breathing from the Banshee made a really big impression on me, the pacing and high quality visuals of the film were wonderful, it just really hit all of the boxes and more for me.

Returning to it now though, almost 7 years later, we now find ourselves a little whelmed. Because this time, the ride was cool, pretty cool even. Neat definitely. But my favorite ride at WDW? It just hasn't kept it's novelty at all for either of us. It's just Soarin', but better. Though, Soarin' doesn't have nearly as bad of warping on the edges and 3D bleed-in for those at obtuse angles as FoP does. The queue is really cool, but the preshows are really, reallyyy long-winded. The glasses don't quite sit right and are a little uncomfy when compared to other Goggle rides like IoA Spider-Man or Rat.

It got me thinking about E-Tickets and how we use that as a term. I remember when Soarin' and Toy Story Mania were the premier rides of their respective parks, and when if you didn't rope drop MGM or Epcot, you probably weren't riding either. Nowadays, no one really cares that much. They seem to attract 45 min waits at most on a standard day, and I think part of that is just the lack of attractions at DHS. Meanwhile, there are expansions like formerly Splash Mountain, Kilimanjaro Safari, Seven Dwarf's Mine Train, Test Track that have not lost that fervor from guests. It's no longer the immediate hype-fueled madness of "Rope drop or forget it", but they are consistently at the highest wait times in their parks.

My hypothesis is that certain E-Tickets naturally recede into lower tiers while others preserve that original popularity and hype, almost making two different camps of "Pure Hype E-Tickets" and "True E-Tickets". Maybe this sort of thing is common thought here, but that ride of FoP is the first time I've really thought about that distinction. For me personally, though it may not not align with the current wait times for it even 7 years after opening, I believe Flight of Passage will probably end up closer to a Toy Story Mania than a Splash Mountain in the end. It might take some further expansion and some even crazier rides to be added to DAK to really open up that possibility, but I think it's almost inevitable. My view is that in a park devoid of attractions and especially E-Tickets, the newest and most technologically advanced rides in the park are bumped into E-Ticket status whether they're fit for that role or not. In a park like Islands of Adventure, Epcot, or Magic Kingdom, where would Flight of Passage sit? What about 15 years from now? I'm not sure. I think Tower of Terror would be an incredibly popular ride even in an already thrill-ride packed park like IoA, and ToT opened in 1999. Could FoP last that long in an already saturated park like that? Does its' role as a simulator in an Orlando market flooded with Screenz attractions bump it down? And is that just for me personally? Again, I'm not sure, but I'm interested in the question.

Anyways, those are some of my long-winded thoughts on Flight of Passage and the term E-Ticket, for whatever that is worth haha I am curious to hear if any of you relate to these sentiments or if you still feel the excitement from this ride that many did back in 2017. Heck, maybe you never liked this ride. Judging how popular it still seems to be, that group is probably a minority but I'd definitely still be curious on those kinds of thoughts regardless!

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Considered leaving this in the General Avatar DAK thread but saw that River Journey has had a seperate thread for some time now so

I was surprised when a friend and I rode FoP the other week with only a 35 minute wait. Not because of the outlier wait time, it was a very slow day at the park, but because of our reactions to the ride itself. At one point, this had been my friend and I's favorite Walt Disney World attraction. We didn't know each other back then, but she came down to DAK from California in 2017. Before she went, she was expecting to be returning home trashing the land to her friends, but instead found herself singing its' praises as an incredible attraction that was unlike anything she'd seen before. I was the same way, I was fiercely skeptical and critical of the Avatar project since it's early announcements around 2014 or so, so when I rode it for the first time in 2017 I was shocked that it was the most incredible ride experience I had ever been through up to that point. The wind, water, and smell effects were so varied and detailed, the breathing from the Banshee made a really big impression on me, the pacing and high quality visuals of the film were wonderful, it just really hit all of the boxes and more for me.

Returning to it now though, almost 7 years later, we now find ourselves a little whelmed. Because this time, the ride was cool, pretty cool even. Neat definitely. But my favorite ride at WDW? It just hasn't kept it's novelty at all for either of us. It's just Soarin', but better. Though, Soarin' doesn't have nearly as bad of warping on the edges and 3D bleed-in for those at obtuse angles as FoP does. The queue is really cool, but the preshows are really, reallyyy long-winded. The glasses don't quite sit right and are a little uncomfy when compared to other Goggle rides like IoA Spider-Man or Rat.

It got me thinking about E-Tickets and how we use that as a term. I remember when Soarin' and Toy Story Mania were the premier rides of their respective parks, and when if you didn't rope drop MGM or Epcot, you probably weren't riding either. Nowadays, no one really cares that much. They seem to attract 45 min waits at most on a standard day, and I think part of that is just the lack of attractions at DHS. Meanwhile, there are expansions like formerly Splash Mountain, Kilimanjaro Safari, Seven Dwarf's Mine Train, Test Track that have not lost that fervor from guests. It's no longer the immediate hype-fueled madness of "Rope drop or forget it", but they are consistently at the highest wait times in their parks.

My hypothesis is that certain E-Tickets naturally recede into lower tiers while others preserve that original popularity and hype, almost making two different camps of "Pure Hype E-Tickets" and "True E-Tickets". Maybe this sort of thing is common thought here, but that ride of FoP is the first time I've really thought about that distinction. For me personally, though it may not not align with the current wait times for it even 7 years after opening, I believe Flight of Passage will probably end up closer to a Toy Story Mania than a Splash Mountain in the end. It might take some further expansion and some even crazier rides to be added to DAK to really open up that possibility, but I think it's almost inevitable. My view is that in a park devoid of attractions and especially E-Tickets, the newest and most technologically advanced rides in the park are bumped into E-Ticket status whether they're fit for that role or not. In a park like Islands of Adventure, Epcot, or Magic Kingdom, where would Flight of Passage sit? What about 15 years from now? I'm not sure. I think Tower of Terror would be an incredibly popular ride even in an already thrill-ride packed park like IoA, and ToT opened in 1999. Could FoP last that long in an already saturated park like that? Does its' role as a simulator in an Orlando market flooded with Screenz attractions bump it down? And is that just for me personally? Again, I'm not sure, but I'm interested in the question.

Anyways, those are some of my long-winded thoughts on Flight of Passage and the term E-Ticket, for whatever that is worth haha I am curious to hear if any of you relate to these sentiments or if you still feel the excitement from this ride that many did back in 2017. Heck, maybe you never liked this ride. Judging how popular it still seems to be, that group is probably a minority but I'd definitely still be curious on those kinds of thoughts regardless!

You are right, the two Avatar rides are the only 2 attractions at DAK that appeal to just about everybody in the park and are somewhat repeatable, boosting its popularity. All the other attractions are thrilling or get you soaked, the safaris are great but I wouldn't call them repeatable.

Theme park rides are like a complicated formula - using Na'vi River as an example, it's designed as a D-ticket but it's an E-Ticket in the grand scheme of things due to its accessibility, location, and the lack of any other options at the park. But putting Na'vi and Flight at the same level isn't fair so you have to "elevate" Na'Vi into a different category of its own. There are what I call "S-tickets" that are attractions that stand out (where I take the s from) from the rest of the bunch due to accessibility, quality, location, etc. Hagrid's, even though IOA has a good amount of capacity, is one of those due to its IP, somewhat decent accessibility, and overall repeatable experience.

Fast & Furious... as much as I hate saying this... is an E-ticket, but in reality, it acts like a C-ticket (yes, it's that unpopular).

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Considered leaving this in the General Avatar DAK thread but saw that River Journey has had a seperate thread for some time now so

I was surprised when a friend and I rode FoP the other week with only a 35 minute wait. Not because of the outlier wait time, it was a very slow day at the park, but because of our reactions to the ride itself. At one point, this had been my friend and I's favorite Walt Disney World attraction. We didn't know each other back then, but she came down to DAK from California in 2017. Before she went, she was expecting to be returning home trashing the land to her friends, but instead found herself singing its' praises as an incredible attraction that was unlike anything she'd seen before. I was the same way, I was fiercely skeptical and critical of the Avatar project since it's early announcements around 2014 or so, so when I rode it for the first time in 2017 I was shocked that it was the most incredible ride experience I had ever been through up to that point. The wind, water, and smell effects were so varied and detailed, the breathing from the Banshee made a really big impression on me, the pacing and high quality visuals of the film were wonderful, it just really hit all of the boxes and more for me.

Returning to it now though, almost 7 years later, we now find ourselves a little whelmed. Because this time, the ride was cool, pretty cool even. Neat definitely. But my favorite ride at WDW? It just hasn't kept it's novelty at all for either of us. It's just Soarin', but better. Though, Soarin' doesn't have nearly as bad of warping on the edges and 3D bleed-in for those at obtuse angles as FoP does. The queue is really cool, but the preshows are really, reallyyy long-winded. The glasses don't quite sit right and are a little uncomfy when compared to other Goggle rides like IoA Spider-Man or Rat.

It got me thinking about E-Tickets and how we use that as a term. I remember when Soarin' and Toy Story Mania were the premier rides of their respective parks, and when if you didn't rope drop MGM or Epcot, you probably weren't riding either. Nowadays, no one really cares that much. They seem to attract 45 min waits at most on a standard day, and I think part of that is just the lack of attractions at DHS. Meanwhile, there are expansions like formerly Splash Mountain, Kilimanjaro Safari, Seven Dwarf's Mine Train, Test Track that have not lost that fervor from guests. It's no longer the immediate hype-fueled madness of "Rope drop or forget it", but they are consistently at the highest wait times in their parks.

My hypothesis is that certain E-Tickets naturally recede into lower tiers while others preserve that original popularity and hype, almost making two different camps of "Pure Hype E-Tickets" and "True E-Tickets". Maybe this sort of thing is common thought here, but that ride of FoP is the first time I've really thought about that distinction. For me personally, though it may not not align with the current wait times for it even 7 years after opening, I believe Flight of Passage will probably end up closer to a Toy Story Mania than a Splash Mountain in the end. It might take some further expansion and some even crazier rides to be added to DAK to really open up that possibility, but I think it's almost inevitable. My view is that in a park devoid of attractions and especially E-Tickets, the newest and most technologically advanced rides in the park are bumped into E-Ticket status whether they're fit for that role or not. In a park like Islands of Adventure, Epcot, or Magic Kingdom, where would Flight of Passage sit? What about 15 years from now? I'm not sure. I think Tower of Terror would be an incredibly popular ride even in an already thrill-ride packed park like IoA, and ToT opened in 1999. Could FoP last that long in an already saturated park like that? Does its' role as a simulator in an Orlando market flooded with Screenz attractions bump it down? And is that just for me personally? Again, I'm not sure, but I'm interested in the question.

Anyways, those are some of my long-winded thoughts on Flight of Passage and the term E-Ticket, for whatever that is worth haha I am curious to hear if any of you relate to these sentiments or if you still feel the excitement from this ride that many did back in 2017. Heck, maybe you never liked this ride. Judging how popular it still seems to be, that group is probably a minority but I'd definitely still be curious on those kinds of thoughts regardless!

I mean, if your criteria for True E-Ticket vs Pure Hype E-Ticket is based on average queue length, then Flight of Passage should still fall in the “True” category…it’s awesome that you hit it on a slow day but I think that’s an extreme outlier.

But I’d also say queue times (or any other surface-level metric if popularity) can’t be the only measures of success. Pirates and Haunted Mansion are master-class attractions that generally breeze through people. Great Movie Ride was an incredible ride that didn’t ever draw much of a wait in its later years. Forbidden Journey rarely climbs above a 20-minute wait these days but is still incredibly well done.

I think ultimately ride quality gets divided into two categories among fan circles: technology and artistic merit. In the last 10-20 years or so, I think technology has trumped artistry in terms of what fans value in a ride. In that regard, Flight of Passage falls short because it’s not doing anything particularly groundbreaking (to your point, it’s the next evolution of Soarin).

But I do think everything came together really well for the total Avatar experience—the queue, the overall aesthetics, the story, the visuals, the music, etc. are all done really well. Some rides, you can tell there’s just a list of scenes the designers need to hit and the ride is a loose thread of action connecting each setpiece, but Flight of Passage is different. It has a pretty unconventional ride film that tries to do something different than throw you around from special effect to special effect. I definitely get how that doesn’t work for some people, but I’ve always admired it for that. Not my favorite ride, but one I can appreciate and that I think ultimately will stand the test of time unless more and more rides stray away from the “horribly wrong chaos” conceit.

 

[Mad Dog]

I also thought FOP was one of the top two or three Disney attractions the first two times I rode it. But with repeat rides the initial experience lessened, and while I still think it's a very good attraction, I would rate it more towards the bottom of a WDW top ten list. It's uniqueness kind of wears off a wee bit. But, in a park with few real rides, it generally still commands some of the longest average lines at WDW according to Touring Plans weekly statistical breakdown. But since AK has kind of become the opposite of most theme parks touring, it's probably best to visit the Pandora rides after 5:00 PM when the park quickly clears out.

 

[gbird]

I agree the first time my group rode FOP we all thought was best attraction in both Universal and Disney but does not have the same impact any more and whilst we still like to ride, its not one I have to ride each year I visit Disney like TOT or Haunted mansion ETC

Does not help that FOP pre-ride scenes grate on me now too

 

[IzzyB]

I agree FOP is a amazing at first, but does go down a little one repeat. However, you can't compare opening waits for Soarin or TSM to now waits as both added more capacity and as soon as that capacity was added waits dropped for both of those rides. So I am not sure people don't care about either of them (I know I certainly still care), but more they can service more people per hour than they could at opening.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I agree FOP is a amazing at first, but does go down a little one repeat. However, you can't compare opening waits for Soarin or TSM to now waits as both added more capacity and as soon as that capacity was added waits dropped for both of those rides. So I am not sure people don't care about either of them (I know I certainly still care), but more they can service more people per hour than they could at opening.

Soarin is a hilarious example of Disney's current take on the parks. For years they left Epcot alone, and when they finally added Frozen, Rat, and GOTG, it shockingly spread people out through the park instead of just rushing to one attraction. They added a 3rd theater, but it was too late and I often see them running only 2 late in the day.

It's almost like building more capacity spreads people out?

 

[HandsomePete]

they finally added Frozen, Rat, and GOTG

building more capacity

Frozen didn’t add capacity and GOTG technically has less than Energy did.

It’s about having capacity that people want to ride.

Just to stay on topic, I agree that FOP doesn’t hit as hard for me anymore. I think it’s because the initial years were like, this is the best simulator ever built… but over time it’s still just a simulator. I’ve had a similar comedown with Gringotts, and Star Tours was the same until they added in the variability. That really helped keep it fresh.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Frozen didn’t add capacity and GOTG technically has less than Energy did.

It’s about having capacity that people want to ride.

Yes, I didn't want to clutter my message, but Epcot received a net positive capacity increase even if they were replacements and/or completely new builds with lower capacity like GOTG.

Yeah Ellen could push through 3K people an hour and GOTG can maybe get to 2K, but those 2K worth of seats on GOTG are 90% filled where as Ellen was maybe 10% filled. So all that capacity goes to waste. Same situation with Frozen.

 

[IzzyB]

Yes, I didn't want to clutter my message, but Epcot received a net positive capacity increase even if they were replacements and/or completely new builds with lower capacity like GOTG.

Yeah Ellen could push through 3K people an hour and GOTG can maybe get to 2K, but those 2K worth of seats on GOTG are 90% filled where as Ellen was maybe 10% filled. So all that capacity goes to waste. Same situation with Frozen.

Frozen is a break even, because that ride always typically had a wait, just not 100 minute wait. I believe most times of the day they were pushing at max capacity unlike Ellen where it was almost always empty.

They for sure had an overall capacity increase in Epcot, which was needed. Soarin and Test track were the only rides with high waits and now it is spread out amongst more rides. But I still say the 3rd theater was and still is needed. It was added before the other rides were added and helped a ton.

 

[belloq87]

I think Flight of Passage is as good an attraction as you can make from a pure simulator.