TRON Lightcycle Run

[UniversalRBLX]

If there's one positive thing about Genie is that you can stay at Universal, and then utilize genie for 2 days for WDW's headliners... if you can get reservations.

 

[Nick]

Surprisingly, they've actually gotten started getting the roof on quickly upon the materials being delivered.

FIRST LOOK: TRON Lightcycle Run Canopy Roof Installation Has Begun at Magic Kingdom

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blogmickey.com

 

[SkiBum]

But they will likely look at the investment they made, pat themselves on the back, and tout the PatF thing that’s happening sometime when they feel like it and maybe announce one new thing and call it a day.

After all the investment they just made, I just don’t see them saying, “That was fun, now let’s do it again”.

Imagine a world where, instead of spending $2 billion on NextGen in 2008 - 2012, they spent... let's say $500 million (probably still high) on fundamentally necessary tech infrastructure (better wifi, rebuilding the parks website system, designing a mobile app), and $1.5 billion on actual attractions and refurbs.

WDW would be in such a better place.

Broken record time. Their investment strategies make no sense. I complete agree with bad money spent on a lot of MyMagic+ but, at their current project costs, the $1.5B would only cover 3, maybe 4, rides and these rides would not be higher capacity rides that would be universally accepted. For that much money, they could/should be able to build anywhere from 7-10 dark rides. Yes, they will pat themselves on the back and go back into collection mode (i.e. collecting money from the ticket sales and souvenir sales of popcorn buckets).

 

[Nick]

Broken record time. Their investment strategies make no sense. I complete agree with bad money spent on a lot of MyMagic+ but, at their current project costs, the $1.5B would only cover 3, maybe 4, rides and these rides would not be higher capacity rides that would be universally accepted. For that much money, they could/should be able to build anywhere from 7-10 dark rides. Yes, they will pat themselves on the back and go back into collection mode (i.e. collecting money from the ticket sales and souvenir sales of popcorn buckets).

There were several bad aspects of that project (interactive queues/games leading the pack), however, the parks needed an infrastructure upgrade and the project also built the MM+ app which is basically used for a guests to manage a guests entire experience these days (not that that's a good thing, but I generally think it's a pretty good app).

I truly think much of what came from that project was needed. Tbh, that $1.5-$2B was never going to go to rides. The parks only got it because Iger and Rasulo lied to the Board of Directors by passing off an infrastructure project as something they were going to make their money back on AND profit from.

 

[belloq87]

The issue is that an expenditure of that magnitude prevented WDW from investing in attractions in a meaningful way during that same time.

Between 2009 and 2017, what did WDW really add of significance? New Fantasyland (but an uncharitable person could say the two rides there were replacements) and a couple of re-skins.

I think it's unquestionably the worst eight-year span in the resort's history (purely from an attractions standpoint), and it's because their tech project was a horrendous money pit.

 

[Nick]

The issue is that an expenditure of that magnitude prevented WDW from investing in attractions in a meaningful way during that same time.

Between 2009 and 2017, what did WDW really add of significance? New Fantasyland (but an uncharitable person could say the two rides there were replacements) and a couple of re-skins.

I think it's unquestionably the worst eight-year span in the resort's history (purely from an attractions standpoint), and it's because their tech project was a horrendous money pit.

Tbh, I feel like the period from around 2000-2009 was pretty much just as bad, but I think 2000-2015 was EXTRAORDINARILY bad altogether. The only things of note in that time period are Philharmagic, Mission: Space, Soarin' Expedition Everest and New Fantasyland (and I guess *maybe* you can count Test Track 2.0). 5 new rides, a 3D show, and a major attraction refurbishment (along with about a million DVC hotels built) in the span of 15 years is embarrassing.

 

[OrlLover]

Well I guess since everybody got their thoughts out I will say I’m hopelessly optimistic about D23 this year.

I have a feeling maybe 1 or 2 new attractions may be announced. Of course I hope they would be for DAK since that park needs it the most.

 

[Tobias]

This is why I keep saying that despite record investment the parks still need more. WDW stagnated so much that even the basic stuff is super old and worn down.

Yup, since the record investment didn't change the fact that the secondary parks at WDW still lack attractions, including DHS which got the bulk of new attractions lately. What didn't help DHS is the new attractions (while good) were replacing several others, none of them were an addition to add to the roster. Thinking about it, the only actual additions that WDW has gained recently has been Ratatouille, New Fantasyland, and Tron when it eventually opens. The latter two being in MK which already has a plethora of attractions.

When you let things stagnate for so long, the more and more complicated and expensive things get in order to actually fix the issues.

 

[SkiBum]

Yup, since the record investment didn't change the fact that the secondary parks at WDW still lack attractions, including DHS which got the bulk of new attractions lately. What didn't help DHS is the new attractions (while good) were replacing several others, none of them were an addition to add to the roster. Thinking about it, the only actual additions that WDW has gained recently has been Ratatouille, New Fantasyland, and Tron when it eventually opens. The latter two being in MK which already has a plethora of attractions.

When you let things stagnate for so long, the more and more complicated and expensive things get in order to actually fix the issues.

Excellent points. I think that the lack of rides at the other parks is a key factor in MK being swamped and Tron, despite being a short launched coaster, will just add to that issue.

 

[Mad Dog]

Yes. The problem with WDW is that they've had 'huge' increases in attendance in the past two/three decades while capacity has remained, for all intents and purposes, stagnant. That's a sure recipe for overcrowded parks and longer attraction lines. Way more people with just about the same number of attractions. Most everything new replaced something that was discontinued at one time or another. Even the large New Fantasyland expansion didn't replace a plus in rides (20,000 Leagues and Snow White were closed previously)

 

[Nick]

Even the large New Fantasyland expansion didn't replace a plus in rides (20,000 Leagues and Snow White were closed previously)

Technically you’re right as we lost two rides and gained two back, coming out to equal.

However, Snow White (~600) and 20K (~1200) were not necessarily putting people through at lightning speed. Meanwhile, Mermaid (~1800-2000) is one of the highest capacity in the park and 7DMT(~1500) both easily beat out both older rides and that's not even including Enchanted Tales (~300) and Be Our Guest, which seats to capacity daily usually. Then there's just expanded pathways which was needed, but also, and most overlooked, Dumbo doubled it's hourly capacity from 600 to 1200 if both Dumbo's are running.

Snow White and 20K's total capacity comes out to only around 1800 combined. Let's say ~2200 on a busy day maybe. Fantasyland - with the same number of rides as before - now has a capacity of ~4400 at minimum between 7DMT, Mermaid, Enchanted Tales, and the added second Dumbo. I wouldn't know how to calculate Be Our Guest in, but it has 546 tables (So if the restaurant is filled, that means we're talking at least probably 1500 or so i'd say in the restaurant at a time if you say go by an average of 3 per table. It could be closer to 2000 if the realistic average is around 4. I don't know how fast the turnover is between parties or should I say how many reservations they book per day would probably be the more interesting thing.

So if you add in 1500 at minimum from BOG, then that brings the new total to ~5900. And I didn't even factor in Princess Fairy Tale Hall, which is fair game since it's not a new build and uses the Snow White attraction spot, which would push to total over 6000. Remember, utilizing the same land that all of this stuff is on, SW and 20K still only add up to around ~2200 at best. New Fantasyland uses space more efficiently (in the NFE area) which is the reason for this. 20K took up an obnoxious amount of space. The bad thing to come from this all was Princess Fairytale Hall taking over Snow White instead of a new ride (although it is a small building).

 

[Mad Dog]

Technically you’re right as we lost two rides and gained two back, coming out to equal.

However, Snow White (~600) and 20K (~1200) were not necessarily putting people through at lightning speed. Meanwhile, Mermaid (~1800-2000) is one of the highest capacity in the park and 7DMT(~1500) both easily beat out both older rides and that's not even including Enchanted Tales (~300) and Be Our Guest, which seats to capacity daily usually. Then there's just expanded pathways which was needed, but also, and most overlooked, Dumbo doubled it's hourly capacity from 600 to 1200 if both Dumbo's are running.

Snow White and 20K's total capacity comes out to only around 1800 combined. Let's say ~2200 on a busy day maybe. Fantasyland - with the same number of rides as before - now has a capacity of ~4400 at minimum between 7DMT, Mermaid, Enchanted Tales, and the added second Dumbo. I wouldn't know how to calculate Be Our Guest in, but it has 546 tables (So if the restaurant is filled, that means we're talking at least probably 1500 or so i'd say in the restaurant at a time if you say go by an average of 3 per table. It could be closer to 2000 if the realistic average is around 4. I don't know how fast the turnover is between parties or should I say how many reservations they book per day would probably be the more interesting thing.

So if you add in 1500 at minimum from BOG, then that brings the new total to ~5900. And I didn't even factor in Princess Fairy Tale Hall, which is fair game since it's not a new build and uses the Snow White attraction spot, which would push to total over 6000. Remember, utilizing the same land that all of this stuff is on, SW and 20K still only add up to around ~2200 at best. New Fantasyland uses space more efficiently (in the NFE area) which is the reason for this. 20K took up an obnoxious amount of space. The bad thing to come from this all was Princess Fairytale Hall taking over Snow White instead of a new ride (although it is a small building).

That's true to an extent, but at the other end Disney cut Main Street Entertainment, MS Citizen Acts, and Parades (which occupy huge numbers of people) in the years after they opened NFL, so the final tally of park capacity is a wash or worst.

 

[Nick]

That's true to an extent, but at the other end Disney cut Main Street Entertainment, MS Citizen Acts, and Parades in the years after they opened NFL, so the final tally of park capacity is a wash or worst.

While I agree that there needs to be a new day parade (wasn't that parade coming back this month?) and we definitely need an electrical parade, those happen once, maybe twice per day resulting in very low amount of capacity loss. Tron will be adding an hourly ride capacity of 1680 riders/hour whenever they decide they want to open that (probably next year). That's a full on expansion, too.

Of course MK, along with every other WDW park, still needs expansion and higher capacity. I would like to see a new E-ticket that people loved to get worked up about in Adventureland, but it just doesn't seem logistically possible. I think the next expansion is going to be them taking over Tom Sawyer Island for a ride, docking the ferry, and building bridges so that you could walk from Big Thunder over to Tom Sawyer and then from Tom Sawyer to Liberty Square.

I'm not exactly sure what they would put on the island as far as a ride goes (or land). I remember about 3-4 years ago there was a rumor that there would be a Kali-style water ride built on the island with a connecting bridge, but they abandoned it.

 

[Mad Dog]

While I agree that there needs to be a new day parade (wasn't that parade coming back this month?) and we definitely need an electrical parade, those happen once, maybe twice per day resulting in very low amount of capacity loss. Tron will be adding an hourly ride capacity of 1680 riders/hour whenever they decide they want to open that (probably next year). That's a full on expansion, too.

Of course MK, along with every other WDW park, still needs expansion and higher capacity. I would like to see a new E-ticket that people loved to get worked up about in Adventureland, but it just doesn't seem logistically possible. I think the next expansion is going to be them taking over Tom Sawyer Island for a ride, docking the ferry, and building bridges so that you could walk from Big Thunder over to Tom Sawyer and then from Tom Sawyer to Liberty Square.

I'm not exactly sure what they would put on the island as far as a ride goes (or land). I remember about 3-4 years ago there was a rumor that there would be a Kali-style water ride built on the island with a connecting bridge, but they abandoned it.

The bottom line though is that capacity has been basically flat while attendance has had huge incremental increases. MK, and the other WDW parks, are so far behind in having sufficient capacity to meet the increased attendance levels, that I don't see them ever catching up, especially under the Chapek management philosophy. Both Disneyland parks and the Universal Orlando parks, attractions wise, are in much better shape to handle the attendance levels they receive. DHS and AK are probably the worst of the WDW parks since they have so very few rides in relation to their attendance......Parades, though they only run once or twice a day, don't eat up hourly capacity, but during their run (and the time people spend waiting in a spot) the number of viewers is huge and frees up the other park rides for shorter lines during those times. And both AK and DHS also killed their parades for the most part.

 

[Nick]

The bottom line though is that capacity has been basically flat while attendance has had huge incremental increases. MK, and the other WDW parks, are so far behind in having sufficient capacity to meet the increased attendance levels, that I don't see them ever catching up, especially under the Chapek management philosophy. Both Disneyland parks and the Universal Orlando parks, attractions wise, are in much better shape to handle the attendance levels they receive. DHS and AK are probably the worst of the WDW parks since they have so very few rides in relation to their attendance......Parades, though they only run once or twice a day, don't eat up hourly capacity, but during their run (and the time people spend waiting in a spot) the number of viewers is huge and frees up the other park rides for shorter lines during those times. And both AK and DHS also killed their parades for the most part.

Of course, i'm not arguing your point there. MK probably needs expansion the most since it gets hit the hardest, but they really need to bulk up the other 3 parks. Epcot has a fair amount to do, especially once GotG is open, but the problem that park faces is that it's just SO BIG. Remy is a solid addition to France, now let's do it again and something to the Germany (Snow White, Tangled), Italy (Pinocchio, Luca), UK (Poppins, Pooh, Brave), etc pavilions. Disney has existing rides that could fit literally all of those pavilions right now OR they could chose to create new rides off new IP or literally just create and original ride (never gonna happen again).

I'm sure Disney is trying to figure out a way to get Encanto into the Parks quickly just like how they got Frozen in the parks quick. They haven't had a musical that blew up like this since then and it's turned into a real cultural moment.

 

[Nick]

 

[SkiBum]

They better pace themselves or risk pulling a muscle, moving at this speed. If they keep this up, they might have the roof installation finished before 2023 and people will really think that they did build a ride, as opposed to a potential warehouse.

 

[Nick]

 

[belloq87]

Do we know if the entrance/exit of the attraction will also be accessible from the Storybook Circus area? Or will everybody have to be funneled through the narrow path next to the Light & Power Co. building?

For crowding reasons, I certainly hope the former.

 

[Nick]

Do we know if the entrance/exit of the attraction will also be accessible from the Storybook Circus area? Or will everybody have to be funneled through the narrow path next to the Light & Power Co. building?

For crowding reasons, I certainly hope the former.

The old path will be rebuilt from what i've heard (and hopefully be build to handle a large amount of people) so I assume that it will have a way to enter the attraction from that direction. I can't believe that they haven't fixed the pathway issue from Space. They could've easily trimmed a bit off the speedway so that there's room to expand the pathway.