Walt Disney World Tech News & Discussion- Magic Bands, Genie+, and more

[SeventyOne]

When you factor in a base price of an extra $375 (not including the individual purchase rides) tacked on to an already $3,206.45 spent just to get through the turnstiles for people that are budgeting to go and aren’t executives with a six figure salary, then yeah it will make things worse.

It feels like the high end of everyone “needing“ it. At $15 it won’t reduce lines as much as Express being that much yet also still be just painful enough.

Also Universal’s $350 a night hotel comes with unlimited two park express while Disney’s $600 a night rooms don’t come with Genie+. The products don’t neatly line up with each other.

First, I agree a 10% increase is never nothing, and $375 is "real" money to most Disney guests.

That said, the biggest issue to me is that technically that $15 guarantees you nothing. You could buy it and--theoretically--all FastPasses (gonna use this as a term of art) could be gone. As a practical matter, on busier days Genie+ probably means a half-dozen FastPasses at C- and D-tickets OR at best two E-tickets. Because a late morning BTMMR slot means by the time you can pick again, probably looking at dinnertime for Splash, and after that everything but Little Mermaid done for the day (and that line wasn't bad so you already rode it waiting for Splash). Look how quickly times on paper FastPasses would go up. Other parks charge a lot more, but they guarantee at least one ride on every E-ticket. Apples to oranges.

I foresee a lot of seasoned Disney vets rejecting this once the new wears off, especially since they can still buy one-off passes if they really, really feel like riding Mansion that day without Genie+. Honestly feels more like a way to get the less-informed guests to follow an ever-shifting, Disney-approved version of a Len Testa touring plan.

Which is what I think this is ultimately all about. WDW is broken. They know this. They admitted in that DAS suit the lines are the #1 problem, driving down GSAT scores once they go over 20 minutes. There are a number of White Lotus (love that analogy, Allison) guests who would pay $300 for an unlimited FastPass like every other park offers. But rather than that simplistic option, Disney came up with this convoluted plan. I genuinely think they saw the average guests slipping away, and this is as much about trying to appease them as getting some extra money out of the limited number of whales.

Tho I also agree with Joe about capacity, 3 or 4 new omnimovers/off-the-shelf rides in each park, suddenly this isn't an issue at all. But money and corporate culture mean that's not happening anytime soon.

 

[Allison]

First, I agree a 10% increase is never nothing, and $375 is "real" money to most Disney guests.

That said, the biggest issue to me is that technically that $15 guarantees you nothing. You could buy it and--theoretically--all FastPasses (gonna use this as a term of art) could be gone. As a practical matter, on busier days Genie+ probably means a half-dozen FastPasses at C- and D-tickets OR at best two E-tickets. Because a late morning BTMMR slot means by the time you can pick again, probably looking at dinnertime for Splash, and after that everything but Little Mermaid done for the day (and that line wasn't bad so you already rode it waiting for Splash). Look how quickly times on paper FastPasses would go up. Other parks charge a lot more, but they guarantee at least one ride on every E-ticket. Apples to oranges.

I foresee a lot of seasoned Disney vets rejecting this once the new wears off, especially since they can still buy one-off passes if they really, really feel like riding Mansion that day without Genie+. Honestly feels more like a way to get the less-informed guests to follow an ever-shifting, Disney-approved version of a Len Testa touring plan.

Which is what I think this is ultimately all about. WDW is broken. They know this. They admitted in that DAS suit the lines are the #1 problem, driving down GSAT scores once they go over 20 minutes. There are a number of White Lotus (love that analogy, Allison) guests who would pay $300 for an unlimited FastPass like every other park offers. But rather than that simplistic option, Disney came up with this convoluted plan. I genuinely think they saw the average guests slipping away, and this is as much about trying to appease them as getting some extra money out of the limited number of whales.

Tho I also agree with Joe about capacity, 3 or 4 new omnimovers/off-the-shelf rides in each park, suddenly this isn't an issue at all. But money and corporate culture mean that's not happening anytime soon.

When doing the math (as an example) for my friend and her family that are coming during a peak time, I figured out if they were to add Genie+ and the individual purchase options for their family of 5 each day of their entire trip it would cost roughly an extra $1,300 added on to the already $3,200 their tickets cost. Disney is essentially nickel & diming the average visitor for *options*. Not even guaranteed access to all of the rides they’d want to experience, but options at whatever’s left over after they pick their first ride of the day.

I usually defend Disney, but, I just don’t think I can defend this. One, cause I can still barely understand the damn thing in order to defend it and two cause I can see it as pricing out some guests that would really wanna visit and I honestly feel for them. A blanket Express Pass option? Completely understandable, but this slop?? I just don’t get it.

 

[shiekra38]

When doing the math (as an example) for my friend and her family that are coming during a peak time, I figured out if they were to add Genie+ and the individual purchase options for their family of 5 each day of their entire trip it would cost roughly an extra $1,300 added on to the already $3,200 their tickets cost. Disney is essentially nickel & diming the average visitor for *options*. Not even guaranteed access to all of the rides they’d want to experience, but options at whatever’s left over after they pick their first ride of the day.

I usually defend Disney, but, I just don’t think I can defend this. One, cause I can still barely understand the damn thing in order to defend it and two cause I can see it as pricing out some guests that would really wanna visit and I honestly feel for them. A blanket Express Pass option? Completely understandable, but this slop?? I just don’t get it.

To add to the "well then, don't use it" side of the argument...go ahead and try and ride the latest round of new ride offerings, Rise, Frozen, soon Rat, etc without booking a pass ahead of time

It's already difficult with the free app. Now it's behind a paywall

 

[DeadSexeh]

When doing the math (as an example) for my friend and her family that are coming during a peak time, I figured out if they were to add Genie+ and the individual purchase options for their family of 5 each day of their entire trip it would cost roughly an extra $1,300 added on to the already $3,200 their tickets cost.

Can I see the math on this?
Not sure what you are wanting from this product. All skip the line offerings get pricey. This is a very cheap option with probably not much overall time saving. This is a premium park so expect a lot of ways to spend more to get more. They ditched the old system which was a disaster and to get good use of that system you needed to stay on property which is more expensive than the new option.

 

[Allison]

Can I see the math on this?
Not sure what you are wanting from this product. All skip the line offerings get pricey. This is a very cheap option with probably not much overall time saving. This is a premium park so expect a lot of ways to spend more to get more. They ditched the old system which was a disaster and to get good use of that system you needed to stay on property which is more expensive than the new option.

$15 base per day, per person for 5 people in 5 days = $375
$4-$24 per individual purchase options (2 rides) per day, per person for 5 people in 5 days = $100-$600

IF every individual purchase option is only $4 then that’s an extra $475, not cheap, and if the individual purchase options are up to $24 per person/ride/day that’s an extra $975 without tax (again, not cheap) for 1 ride, for 2 rides that’s $200-$1,200. Again, not cheap and without tax or w/e random fees, tax added an extra $195 for their tickets so when it comes to Disney personally I always find it safer when budgeting to round up. Never, ever think of anything at Disney as being cheap and inexpensive cause that’s when you’ll run into issues.

I think this new addition is messy at best and I can see how it can be bank breaking for some at worst. If we don’t see eye to eye on it then that’s totally fine and hopefully we can just agree to disagree on it to avoid talking in circles again.

 

[DeadSexeh]

I think this new addition is messy at best and I can see how it can be bank breaking for some at worst. If we don’t see eye to eye on it then that’s totally fine and hopefully we can just agree to disagree on it to avoid talking in circles again.

Yeah I get your numbers now, might be a little extreme but I get it. Trying not to sound like a jerk here cause I am really trying to figure your view, but you have had quite a few posts all with the same point of its expensive for families. So maybe this will help me understand what system would you want (universal type, old FP, no Skippy, or something else)? Again not trying to be rude just want to understand where you are coming from.

 

[JoeCamel]

But it is an offering right now at hotels. And I'm pretty sure they've been offering it since the hotels not opened, not just during the dark dark days. And hell, if Universal wanted to, they could renegotiate the contract.



I've bought Flash Lane, Fast Lane, MaxPass, and Express Pass. I will likely buy Genie+. The issue i have is the pricing seems to be at the high end of being broadly available not that it's on the low side of splurge purchases. Let me rephrase this a different way: all other line skipping services use price as a deterrent to purchase and skip the lines, they are the minority of the visitors that day. With Genie+ and attraction pricing at what it is now the price isn't ENOUGH of a deterrent and now people who don't buy it will be in the minority, basically back at square one but now you're paying $15 per day per person. That's my worry.

Chappie's dream, it is exactly as designed

When doing the math (as an example) for my friend and her family that are coming during a peak time, I figured out if they were to add Genie+ and the individual purchase options for their family of 5 each day of their entire trip it would cost roughly an extra $1,300 added on to the already $3,200 their tickets cost. Disney is essentially nickel & diming the average visitor for *options*. Not even guaranteed access to all of the rides they’d want to experience, but options at whatever’s left over after they pick their first ride of the day.

I usually defend Disney, but, I just don’t think I can defend this. One, cause I can still barely understand the damn thing in order to defend it and two cause I can see it as pricing out some guests that would really wanna visit and I honestly feel for them. A blanket Express Pass option? Completely understandable, but this slop?? I just don’t get it.

Chappie's dream, it is exactly as designed

 

[shiekra38]

Yeah I get your numbers now, might be a little extreme but I get it. Trying not to sound like a jerk here cause I am really trying to figure your view, but you have had quite a few posts all with the same point of its expensive for families. So maybe this will help me understand what system would you want (universal type, old FP, no Skippy, or something else)? Again not trying to be rude just want to understand where you are coming from.

I can't speak for Allison, but I can bet the main summary of most of our arguments and points is: it's convoluted, puts some attractions behind a paywall, and most importantly, it's stupid

Chappie's dream, it is exactly as designed

I feel like most of Chapek's era will play out like Inspector Clouseau from Pink Panther

 

[DeadSexeh]

I can't speak for Allison, but I can bet the main summary of most of our arguments and points is: it's convoluted, puts some attractions behind a paywall, and most importantly, it's stupid

See I will agree with all those points.
Complicated - yep, some rides in this package or have to be single purchase others not available at all. It's just a mess.
Paywall - yep, rise or any ride should not be available if don't have ability to join queue (virtual or physical)
I just get lost with complaint of too expensive.

 

[shiekra38]

See I will agree with all those points.
Complicated - yep, some rides in this package or have to be single purchase others not available at all. It's just a mess.
Paywall - yep, rise or any ride should not be available if don't have ability to join queue (virtual or physical)
I just get lost with complaint of too expensive.

I wouldn't say it's too expensive as an optional upcharge

But Disney has engrained Fastpass and Fastpass Plus so into their DNA that it forces guests to shell out unnecessary funds on an already expensive vacation

On it's own, $15 a day per person doesn't sound bad...but when the peasant line only allows you to see half of the attractions you would before, it gets real sleezy real fast

 

[Allison]

Yeah I get your numbers now, might be a little extreme but I get it. Trying not to sound like a jerk here cause I am really trying to figure your view, but you have had quite a few posts all with the same point of its expensive for families. So maybe this will help me understand what system would you want (universal type, old FP, no Skippy, or something else)? Again not trying to be rude just want to understand where you are coming from.

Because I’ve posted about it being so expensive for some families is why I don’t wanna keep repeating it. My problem with the price point I think stems from it’s deceptiveness. People see, and will hear from Disney, ‘See how long the lines are? For only $15 you can make your stay more magical by adding Genie+ to your Walt Disney World vacation so you stop waiting in lines, and start making memories!’ and they’ll think ‘it’s only an extra $15 and we’ll get to go on all the rides!’ So they’ll fall for it, they’ll pay the $15 each for the day, they’ll get on a glitchy app at 7:00 AM (if they’re onsite) and have to go up against all the rest of the families for the coveted first FP of the day, they’ll be able to grab what they can get, go to the park, go on their first ride…then what? What happens when everyone else finishes their first rides of the day? Are they guaranteed to get a FP for Peter Pan next? Maybe they can, but, it’s for a time 5 hours in the future, and you can’t get another one in the meantime, but, if you cancel that Peter Pan since it’s too late for you there’s no guarantee you’ll get another one. My point is it’s deceptively expensive for something that is not at all guaranteed. You’re paying a base price of $15-$20 a day for options (not even counting the individual options), and, IMO, it’s a nickel dime system that I just can’t defend. Also, I did already mention that I think a blanket system like the Express Pass would be better, pricey but it’s guaranteed as all you have to do is walk up to an attraction and scan your ticket, there’s no guess work on the app and it’s built in to the price of the deluxe resorts. I hope this explanation helps a little bit more.

 

[frank_1991_]

I don’t feel it’s expensive if anything they should have charged more. What’s the point of paying $15 so I can have the ability to use the old fast pass system which until recently was free and included for everyone. In my view it’s not worth it for the product they are offering. Just like fast pass + and the original fast pass, this isn’t designed to save you time in line. If they really wanted to reduce lines Disney should have just pulled the trigger and done like universal with express. A higher barrier of entry would reduce the amount of people using the system and decrease standby line. As is this is just gonna nickel and dime guest.

 

[Mad Dog]

Much will depend on how busy the parks are on a given day, whether it would be worth to spend extra for either Lightening version. Touring Plans did a ton of individual line time tests at MK yesterday,
It was a slow day and even 7 Dwarfs 'real' line times (even though Disney posted much longer line times) ranged from 15 to 32 minutes, on 12 actual line tests throughout the day. Most everything in the
park were shorter, or similarly short lines. No fastpass plus certainly has made a difference in stand by times. My guess is that once adopted, the Genie plus will take a while until a significant amount of
people use the pay feature. So this is probably something we'll want to monitor, and see how the market reacts, before we make a determination on it's actual merits or worth....Additionally, the pay genie use,
and or worth, may vary considerably between the four Disney parks for a number of reasons...

 

[Frank Drackman]

Much will depend on how busy the parks are on a given day, whether it would be worth to spend extra for either Lightening version. Touring Plans did a ton of individual line time tests at MK yesterday,
It was a slow day and even 7 Dwarfs 'real' line times (even though Disney posted much longer line times) ranged from 15 to 32 minutes, on 12 actual line tests throughout the day. Most everything in the
park were shorter, or similarly short lines. No fastpass plus certainly has made a difference in stand by times. My guess is that once adopted, the Genie plus will take a while until a significant amount of
people use the pay feature. So this is probably something we'll want to monitor, and see how the market reacts, before we make a determination on it's actual merits or worth....Additionally, the pay genie use,
and or worth, may vary considerably between the four Disney parks for a number of reasons...

we went to a Boo Bash last night, we had never riding the mine train so we went on that around 7:30 PM w/ a posted wait of 50 minutes and we waited around 35 minutes. I recall Disney always seemed to keep times high on certain rides closer to closing, anyway, what shocked me was when the party had started, we went to go on Haunted Mansion and we were shocked it showed 35 minutes -- it had a five minute wait.

When I see folks comparing to UNI, I guess my issue with WDW is that they have four gates with rides enough for two gates. Sure $15 is better than $80, but what are you getting in Epcot -- sure, you can add whatever it cost to park hop and then (after 2) you night get a ride or two from another park.

 

[BigHouseFootball]

This is all going to come down to the ratios again. If Disney sticks with the 80/20 then stand by will grind to a halt again. And like Joe mentioned $15 isn’t enough to deter the majority of visitors so I’m anticipating stand by times to be long like during the fastpass+ era.

But maybe the stand by wait times will come down? I seem to remember wait times being shorter during regular fastpass times because you could only hold one at a time, which Genie+ is replicating.

But how many people are going to buy this and then be ticked because they could only get 2 fastpasses for the day? That’s a real risk at MK.

Basically I have no idea how this will play out in real life and I’m grateful I won’t begoing back to Disney till summer 22 at the earliest so I’ll have a lot of reports to look at to see if this is worth it.

 

[fryoj]

I might be misreading, but I think some of the "2-3 fp a day" stuff is based on the previous experience with FP+. But in that case, you could book 3 in advance right? With this being 1 at a time and day-of only, that shouldn't be as big of a problem.

 

[therock]

For a family of 5 like mine, the cheaper bet is to go to one of the night-time parties where you don't have to deal with this. That's a shame.

 

[frank_1991_]

For a family of 5 like mine, the cheaper bet is to go to one of the night-time parties where you don't have to deal with this. That's a shame.

I think that’s the point. Make the regular experience as much as a pain as possible so you opt for the exclusive party where Disney is able to charge an arm and leg but at least guarantee low waits for now at least.

 

[Tbad556]

It begins.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Someone already brought this up I think, but I really, REALLY don’t understand the name change. “Fastpass” has ingrained itself into common vernacular. People use “Fastpass” to refer to Express, Fast Lane, Quick Queue, etc (even internally at some of these companies lol). “Lightning Lane” sounds like a Six Flags knock-off.