Wizarding World - Diagon Alley Discussion (Opens 2014)

[JungleSkip]

In my humble opinion, if JKR becomes TOO unresonable then she might force them to shelve any expansion plans whatsoever.

I understand UO wants to reap in the money from HP, but they have to be logical as well. Sacrificing a signature attraction like Jaws for HP would be IMHO dumb.

No if lets say the expand WW is in the empty plot of land behind JP and keep everything within the IOA borders, that could be more logical, but again, everything is up in the air right now, and in all honesty having DA next to Hogsmeade is not a big deal cause this is a theme park, not a real life re-creation of the stories, and that is one thing I think JKR doesn't get and is possibly being too hard nosed on.

People want to be immersed in the world, it doesn't have to be exact down to every detail.

With that, I would take ANY expansion over none and would be happy to get anything, but I wouldn't be happy about losing Jaws, I don't mind FF:L so much, but not the shark.

Again, Jaws leaving is far from a definite, so no one needs to act like it is.

That being said...Jaws isn't a signature attraction anymore. Mummy, MIB, Simpsons, and Rockit are the signature attractions of the park. Jaws is a nice ride to have, but let's not let our love of the ride mask the fact that it's not a headliner anymore. It's line rarely climbs over 20 minutes.

And I do not think it's going anywhere to begin with. They have plenty of room without taking Jaws away.

 

[jtsalien]

Again, Jaws leaving is far from a definite, so no one needs to act like it is.

That being said...Jaws isn't a signature attraction anymore. Mummy, MIB, Simpsons, and Rockit are the signature attractions of the park. Jaws is a nice ride to have, but let's not let our love of the ride mask the fact that it's not a headliner anymore. It's line rarely climbs over 20 minutes.

And I do not think it's going anywhere to begin with. They have plenty of room without taking Jaws away.

Everyone, including myself, is definitely over reacting at the moment. But not that that's such a bad thing. Universal knows their parks, not JKR. They need to remember that.

 

[JungleSkip]

Everyone, including myself, is definitely over reacting at the moment. But not that that's such a bad thing. Universal knows their parks, not JKR. They need to remember that.

And Universal knows how horribly they were floundering before Potter came along, and they know Potter is what's driving their attendance, and they know more Potter will drive it as well.

A big expansion was inevitable. Now we just wait and see how big.

Again, I've only heard it from one person that Jaws is a goner, and others are saying the new land will butt up against the other park. And we're getting other stuff of the Studios.

Either way, these parks are going to be improved significantly.

 

[ReelJustice]

Question: were the apartments ever built on the plot of land behind Jaws/FFL? If not, you could easily demo FFL and have that as the entrance and have the land go back into the apartment plot.

 

[JungleSkip]

Question: were the apartments ever built on the plot of land behind Jaws/FFL? If not, you could easily demo FFL and have that as the entrance and have the land go back into the apartment plot.

Yea, they were built. Look pretty nice from the outside, too.

 

[jtsalien]

Question: were the apartments ever built on the plot of land behind Jaws/FFL? If not, you could easily demo FFL and have that as the entrance and have the land go back into the apartment plot.

I believe they were.

 

[Tbad556]

Question: were the apartments ever built on the plot of land behind Jaws/FFL? If not, you could easily demo FFL and have that as the entrance and have the land go back into the apartment plot.

Yes, they were built and people are now living there. :thumbs:

 

[Felipe]

Also...people have lost site of some other things dropped through those posts, mostly that Kong will return in this equation and that MORE than just Potter is on the way.

Just to reiterate something from a friend, who posted this info on Discussion Kingdom after speaking to ReelJustice and me about all this.


He said in another post that Jaws is unlikely to be demolished.

I didn't touch upon those topics mostly to stay on the WWoHP topic, but I think Transformers at the back of Kidzone is the weirdest placement, and why would they bring Kong back after they already had it and removed it? I think they should come up with something new if they're going to remove Twister. I would also personally demolish the Fear Factor stage and put Transformers there. It would fit in better there than by Kidzone. I also don't think Jaws will be taken out. If they take out Jaws, they'll be taking out a major part of Universal because they'll have to take out all Amityville, and Jaws is just very iconic to Universal Studios, so I believe it will stay. Sure they can re-theme the area, but I don't think this will happen.

1. This is the problem when you give someone like JKR creative control. She needs to understand the situation she's in. When she decided to go with a land, she gave up the right to create something much bigger like a park. Despite it's success, Potter is NOT bigger than IOA and more importantly the integrity of the entire resort. Her ego is hurting what could have been a great expansion and attraction, and turning it into something that's going to be so big that it's going to implode on itself.
2. Linking the parks would be a terrible mistake. The ticket taking and confusion at entrance to the train would be a nightmare. People have enough trouble at the front gate, and it can only be worse in this situation. And if they went to one ticket, the prices for shorter trips would go through the roof. A lot of people do the one park a day option to save money. If it was one price for both parks, it would be even more than a one day at Disney. And the two ideas just don't fit well together. Yeah, I know it can be done, but that doesn't mean it should be.
3. Honestly, I don't know why Universal would be up with this attitude from JKR. She needs them, they don't need her. They shouldn't chase the money and success from the first Potter and lose sight of the way they work. There are more properties than Potter out there. What made it great wasn't neccessarily the fact that it was Potter, it was what Universal did with it.
4. Spielberg vs. JKR? I take Spielberg every time. I pitty the fool who gets to tell him about these plans.
5. I didn't like the idea of this from the beginning, but I accepted the fact that IOA was going to be better for it by replacing a dieing land. Jaws and the Studios are not dieing. But this can kill them.
6. To end on a positive note, Kong replacing Twister? Yes, please. A billion times.

1. People need to stop making remarks about JKR's ego and character from information that is rumors and people's assumptions. It's fine to speculate and post our opinions, but you can't say things like whether she has a big ego or not. You're not there in meetings to know JKR's demands or her attitude towards anything. Also, she didn't give up the right to anything. She and WB gave Universal license to use the HP characters, locations, etc. and make an attraction out of it. They can make new parks and as many expansions as they want. Universal probably has exclusive rights to use HP in theme park environments, so any other Potter theme park related things will probably only happen at Universal, but anything can happen within whatever parameters they agreed upon. Even if they decide to build a whole new park somewhere else.

3. Again, what attitude? Did witness any attitude from JKR? It's not fair to say things like that. And Universal needs JRK, not the other way around. JKR is a gazillionaire and I'm pretty sure she was seeked out by theme parks, not the other way around. She is the one being approached for her product (HP), which Universal wants to use to increase their business. JKR (and lets not forget WB who also own a bunch of the rights to HP) have the power and influence to request whatever changes they want because it's their product that Universal is borrowing. And that's not to say they are actually demanding anything or having an attitude. I'm sure that Universal is going to JKR and asking for her opinions and guidance, not just because she owns the thing, but because they want her input. And she's in all her right to give any opinions, the same way Universal can take them into consideration or not.

I respect your opinions as far as having your preferences, but no one of us can go speaking about a person's character when we really have no clue about it.

 

[Jymmymack]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with JAWS getting replaced. Go ahead and flame on, but it is the nature of the theme park business. Things come, and things go. Jaws has had a 20 year run. That's pretty damn good. My problem is IF there is a Hogwarts Express, that sucker is going to be a traffic jam. A train ride, no matter how short, isn't going to have the capacity to alleviate those Potter crowds. Imagine taking all the people who visit the WWoHP each day, and shoving them into the line for the Magic Kingdom Railroad. Yikes.

 

[JungleSkip]

I didn't touch upon those topics mostly to stay on the WWoHP topic, but I think Transformers at the back of Kidzone is the weirdest placement, and why would they bring Kong back after they already had it and removed it? I think they should come up with something new if they're going to remove Twister. I would also personally demolish the Fear Factor stage and put Transformers there. It would fit in better there than by Kidzone. I also don't think Jaws will be taken out. If they take out Jaws, they'll be taking out a major part of Universal because they'll have to take out all Amityville, and Jaws is just very iconic to Universal Studios, so I believe it will stay. Sure they can re-theme the area, but I don't think this will happen.

Transformers won't go on that side of the park. It'll either be by the old Hard Rock or the Sprung Tents.

As for Kong, they'll bring it back because it's a classic Universal property.

 

[jtsalien]

1. People need to stop making remarks about JKR's ego and character from information that is rumors and people's assumptions. It's fine to speculate and post our opinions, but you can't say things like whether she has a big ego or not. You're not there in meetings to know JKR's demands or her attitude towards anything. Also, she didn't give up the right to anything. She and WB gave Universal license to use the HP characters, locations, etc. and make an attraction out of it. They can make new parks and as many expansions as they want. Universal probably has exclusive rights to use HP in theme park environments, so any other Potter theme park related things will probably only happen at Universal, but anything can happen within whatever parameters they agreed upon. Even if they decide to build a whole new park somewhere else.

3. Again, what attitude? Did witness any attitude from JKR? It's not fair to say things like that. And Universal needs JRK, not the other way around. JKR is a gazillionaire and I'm pretty sure she was seeked out by theme parks, not the other way around. She is the one being approached for her product (HP), which Universal wants to use to increase their business. JKR (and lets not forget WB who also own a bunch of the rights to HP) have the power and influence to request whatever changes they want because it's their product that Universal is borrowing. And that's not to say they are actually demanding anything or having an attitude. I'm sure that Universal is going to JKR and asking for her opinions and guidance, not just because she owns the thing, but because they want her input. And she's in all her right to give any opinions, the same way Universal can take them into consideration or not.

I respect your opinions as far as having your preferences, but no one of us can go speaking about a person's character when we really have no clue about it.

That's a fair point, but the same goes the other way around. If this is true about her turning down plans because they weren't big enough for her, that's not right. And I didn't mean to question her or attack her as a person. I realize this is business, and she can have a big business ego without affecting her personal character. This has nothing to do with her as a person. And by right, I meant she can't decide to take over IOA at this point. The opporunity for a whole park is gone as long as universal has the park rights.

And no, Universal doesn't need her anymore. They have their contract and their land already. They are chosing to expand on this. Unless they put something in the original contract saying they need to follow her demands for an expansion, which would be the most ignorant business move ever, they don't need to undermine their own beliefs in terms of this expansion.

 

[JungleSkip]

That's a fair point, but the same goes the other way around. If this is true about her turning down plans because they weren't big enough for her, that's not right. And I didn't mean to question her or attack her as a person. I realize this is business, and she can have a big business ego without affecting her personal character. This has nothing to do with her as a person. And by right, I meant she can't decide to take over IOA at this point. The opporunity for a whole park is gone as long as universal has the park rights.

If Universal didn't want this, they would just give up on expanding the land. I think it's pretty safe to say that both parties want this to get bigger, and both parties want this to be done right. I think painting this out as a struggle between both group's interests is probably false. They're each feeling out the situation and coming to a final decision that will most likely blow us all away. And no where did it say that she didn't think it was big enough. It was said that she wasn't happy with the original plans.

And saying it's "not right" that JKR wants her property represented in the best possible way is foolish. It's because of her high demands that we have what we have no. I wouldn't have it any other way than to have Universal working hand in hand with a creator that will expect the best possible outcome.

And no, Universal doesn't need her anymore. They have their contract and their land already. They are chosing to expand on this. Unless they put something in the original contract saying they need to follow her demands for an expansion, which would be the most ignorant business move ever, they don't need to undermine their own beliefs in terms of this expansion.

Yes, there is a semblance of creative control given to JKR, and thank god there is as I said above. There's nothing ignorant about fostering a good working relationship with a partner and making sure you do the best you can for their product. They've done it with Spielberg (save for the whole ET fiasco), Seuss, Marvel, and others. And I highly doubt they're undermining their own beliefs. If that was the case these would be ugly negotiations, and from all that I've heard they are not.

Universal wants more Potter. They aren't selling their "beliefs" out for it. They know they want it, and they're working to get it.

 

[Felipe]

jtsalien, thanks for seeing my point

JungleSkip, I agree with everything you said

The opporunity for a whole park is gone as long as universal has the park rights.

I don't see why. If Universal and co. wanted, they could make a whole new separate Potter park somewhere else, even in that empty plot of land south of IoA, or anywhere else with the space for it. I'm not seriously considering this, but I don't think it's completely impossible.

 

[jtsalien]

If Universal didn't want this, they would just give up on expanding the land. I think it's pretty safe to say that both parties want this to get bigger, and both parties want this to be done right. I think painting this out as a struggle between both group's interests is probably false. They're each feeling out the situation and coming to a final decision that will most likely blow us all away. And no where did it say that she didn't think it was big enough. It was said that she wasn't happy with the original plans.

And saying it's "not right" that JKR wants her property represented in the best possible way is foolish. It's because of her high demands that we have what we have now. I wouldn't have it any other way than to have Universal working hand in hand with a creator that will expect the best possible outcome.

Yes, there is a semblance of creative control given to JKR, and thank god there is as I said above. There's nothing ignorant about fostering a good working relationship with a partner and making sure you do the best you can for their product. They've done it with Spielberg (save for the whole ET fiasco), Seuss, Marvel, and others. And I highly doubt they're undermining their own beliefs. If that was the case these would be ugly negotiations, and from all that I've heard they are not.

Universal wants more Potter. They aren't selling their "beliefs" out for it. They know they want it, and they're working to get it.

If they are working "hand in hand", then more power to them. But if Universal wanted the expansion to be as big as JKR wants, they would have planned it that way from the beginning. To me, Universal should have ultimate creative control. JKR knows the property so she's a great consultant, but Universal knows their parks better than anyone. And it is probably more likely that they are hoping to keep her happy and that more land=more money. When in reality, I believe the original smaller plan had a much higher chance of success. Since that land is unappreciated at the moment.

And just because Jaws doesn't draw 60 minutes lines all year round doesn't make it a hallmark. It still gets very crowded at peaks times, unlike Twister which is rightfully getting the boot. I know this is far from defintie, but I have a feeling it would rub a lot of people the wrong way. I think JKR is over estimating the draw of Potter to the general public. I'll say it again, general. Fans will go nuts and throw money at Universal at first. But I think putting Potter in the Studios is more of a headache than its worth and won't have the same appeal as it would contained in IOA. I think, and yes I'm assuming so shoot me, that this expansion might be growing to be too big for it's own good.

 

[Brian G.]

Expansion was planned from the beginning.

 

[JungleSkip]

If they are working "hand in hand", then more power to them. But if Universal wanted the expansion to be as big as JKR wants, they would have planned it that way from the beginning. To me, Universal should have ultimate creative control. JKR knows the property so she's a great consultant, but Universal knows their parks better than anyone. And it is probably more likely that they are hoping to keep her happy and that more land=more money. When in reality, I believe the original smaller plan had a much higher chance of success. Since that land is unappreciated at the moment.

We don't know where the disagreement was for the new plans. It could have been creatively, it could have been sizewise. We don't know. We also don't know what the creative process is going on here.

There's too much guess work still going on with the project to fling accusations of demanding things and Universal not really wanting to go bigger.

 

[ReelJustice]

Thank goodness JKR/WB have final say. That's how we get the best land/attraction possible. Disney would have built Harry Potter Midway Mania and called it a day.

 

[Felipe]

I think JKR is over estimating the draw of Potter to the general public. I'll say it again, general. Fans will go nuts and throw money at Universal at first. But I think putting Potter in the Studios is more of a headache than its worth and won't have the same appeal as it would contained in IOA. I think, and yes I'm assuming so shoot me, that this expansion might be growing to be too big for it's own good.

Maybe I'm biased, being a huge Potter fan, but I think it has a timeless and ageless appeal, a mass appeal, and like other big franchises (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.) I think it's going to remain popular and successful for many, many years to come. Sure, this past decade was probably the peak in HP's popularity, but I think the interest and appeal will always be there even if Potter's not followed as fervently as it is followed in current times. Also, even if there are people who are not into the HP stories and characters, just like I'm not very much into Star Wars personally, the rides and environments for these franchises are still going to be interesting and fun to experience over and over again in their own right.

I do agree that Potter does not fit into Universal Studios. The spirit, the essence of the Studios is movie making, and the spirit and essence of Islands of Adventure is being in these worlds. Islands is the better fit for Potter, and even if they were to expand into Studios land, I'd keep it blocked off and only accessible from Islands.

Thank goodness JKR/WB have final say. That's how we get the best land/attraction possible. Disney would have built Harry Potter Midway Mania and called it a day.

Definitely! And what a testament to Universal as a great business/creative partner!

 

[BrinkofSunshine]

If they are planning a Hogwarts express to run from Amity to WWoHP, what are the people going to see when they look out the window?? JKR and WB are strict about everything you see being a part of that world. The back lot is a far cry from looking like England or Scotland! I'm sure they could put some sort of screen so you're virtually riding through the countryside.. but it just seems pointless.

As much as I love HP, I'm hoping the Amity expansion doesn't happen and it goes somewhere else.

 

[Teebin]

This is the first I have heard of such an almost untenable and outrageous project. The most I have ever gotten a nod too (and I do mean nod), is that designs were flying back and forth across the pond seeking approval. That and stuff involving lawyers.

What is being rumored here in the past 24hrs would be a 1-2 Billion dollar expansion if the same level of detail was to be maintained. I wouldn't be surprised however if they (JK/WB) were looking to take over the entire LC. Otherwise, I have no inkling of this present rumor.