Halloween Horror Nights 26 Discussion

[s8film40]

I love 72, I complain about the 50s and low 60s we had. Then it was nice for 2 days last week (thurs and fri) then the weekend comes and we get 50 with 25 MPH wind. Trust me, no one I have talked to has been mad at 72, we would love 72 Of course the two days this week we had 70s it rained all day, so that kind of sucked. But I am loving this weekend weather. 71 and 75 and no rain. So I am no longer complaining

Humidity and wind are a big factor. I spent a week in PA a couple years ago with weather in the low 20's. I figured this would be colder than anything I've experienced in FL, I was wrong. I found it very comfortable, probably equivalent to 40's - 50's here didn't really bother me at all.

It is a pretty known fact that AP holders in general spend less money per visit. I imagine that holds true for FFP holders and HHN.

I guess if you include hotel stays this is probably true.

 

[Brian G.]

I guess if you include hotel stays this is probably true.

FFP holders are also more likely to eat a meal at home before heading to Universal. People going one/two nights are more likely to be people on vacation and will eat on property. Same with drinks. They may have a drink or two, but if they are responsible and have to drive.... they'll stop. If they're onsite... they may be inclined to drink a bit more since the responsibility of driving is out.

There are a lot of variables.

 

[s8film40]

FFP holders are also more likely to eat a meal at home before heading to Universal. People going one/two nights are more likely to be people on vacation and will eat on property. Same with drinks. They may have a drink or two, but if they are responsible and have to drive.... they'll stop. If they're onsite... they may be inclined to drink a bit more since the responsibility of driving is out.

There are a lot of variables.

I just don't get this theory and it certainly doesn't hold true in my experience. I've been to HHN countless times with a large number and variety of guests over the years. I've visited with people who are local, visiting from out of state, FFP holders and single night guests. I've also gone with people who are very budget conscious as well as some who have lots of money and no problem spending it. The biggest factor in how much someone spends from what I've noticed is has more to do with the individual than the scenario in which they are visiting. From what I've seen it's extremely rare for someone to visit HHN as a FFP or not and not spend the amount of money they would wether it be one night or multiple nights. There just really is no difference.

Yes a FFP holder can have a meal at home before going, so can someone who is staying at a hotel. Many guests get groceries delivered to their hotel for this very reason. If they're driving they can also easily stop by a McDonald's on their way to HHN. Drinking again wether your staying at a hotel or live in the area isn't that different. Many people go in a group and one person is the designated driver, also a good number of people are not staying at Universal hotels and will be driving their rental car back to the hotel. It should also be noted that a good number of locals will get hotel rooms for this reason, sometimes a few times during the course of their FFP. End the FFP program and they may not only see a decline in spending but also hotel bookings.

The plain and simple fact is FFP is brining in much more revenue than they would get if they only offered single day tickets. There's absolutely no sensible reason why Universal would change this unless it was impacting their ability to sell additional tickets. Judging from last year not having any sell out nights making changes to FFP would be an incredibly poor business decision for Universal.

 

[Brian G.]

I just don't get this theory and it certainly doesn't hold true in my experience. I've been to HHN countless times with a large number and variety of guests over the years. I've visited with people who are local, visiting from out of state, FFP holders and single night guests. I've also gone with people who are very budget conscious as well as some who have lots of money and no problem spending it. The biggest factor in how much someone spends from what I've noticed is has more to do with the individual than the scenario in which they are visiting. From what I've seen it's extremely rare for someone to visit HHN as a FFP or not and not spend the amount of money they would wether it be one night or multiple nights. There just really is no difference.

Yes a FFP holder can have a meal at home before going, so can someone who is staying at a hotel. Many guests get groceries delivered to their hotel for this very reason. If they're driving they can also easily stop by a McDonald's on their way to HHN. Drinking again wether your staying at a hotel or live in the area isn't that different. Many people go in a group and one person is the designated driver, also a good number of people are not staying at Universal hotels and will be driving their rental car back to the hotel. It should also be noted that a good number of locals will get hotel rooms for this reason, sometimes a few times during the course of their FFP. End the FFP program and they may not only see a decline in spending but also hotel bookings.

The plain and simple fact is FFP is brining in much more revenue than they would get if they only offered single day tickets. There's absolutely no sensible reason why Universal would change this unless it was impacting their ability to sell additional tickets. Judging from last year not having any sell out nights making changes to FFP would be an incredibly poor business decision for Universal.

To be clear - I don't want FFP to be cut. Just telling you how it is. Obviously you have your own thoughts on it though, regardless of what we're telling you how it is.

 

[IzzyB]

I just don't get this theory and it certainly doesn't hold true in my experience. I've been to HHN countless times with a large number and variety of guests over the years. I've visited with people who are local, visiting from out of state, FFP holders and single night guests. I've also gone with people who are very budget conscious as well as some who have lots of money and no problem spending it. The biggest factor in how much someone spends from what I've noticed is has more to do with the individual than the scenario in which they are visiting. From what I've seen it's extremely rare for someone to visit HHN as a FFP or not and not spend the amount of money they would wether it be one night or multiple nights. There just really is no difference.

Yes a FFP holder can have a meal at home before going, so can someone who is staying at a hotel. Many guests get groceries delivered to their hotel for this very reason. If they're driving they can also easily stop by a McDonald's on their way to HHN. Drinking again wether your staying at a hotel or live in the area isn't that different. Many people go in a group and one person is the designated driver, also a good number of people are not staying at Universal hotels and will be driving their rental car back to the hotel. It should also be noted that a good number of locals will get hotel rooms for this reason, sometimes a few times during the course of their FFP. End the FFP program and they may not only see a decline in spending but also hotel bookings.

The plain and simple fact is FFP is brining in much more revenue than they would get if they only offered single day tickets. There's absolutely no sensible reason why Universal would change this unless it was impacting their ability to sell additional tickets. Judging from last year not having any sell out nights making changes to FFP would be an incredibly poor business decision for Universal.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they would get rid of FFP. But could they raise the price, offer less days, etc? Probably. But it is pretty well known in the theme park world that AP holders in a single visit spend less money than a day visitor or a vacationing person. Reason being is if you are going 15 nights, you are buying 1 shirt, not 15 shirts. You probably have a budget and you stick to that budget each visit. A single day person probably has a larger budget for that one night than you do for your one night because you are going 15 nights. Now is there exceptions to this rule, of course. But all of the parks have looked into this and they all conclude that in a single visit AP holders spend less. I have been on your side of the argument because we spend a crap ton of money at the parks, but I had to come to the conclusion I am not normal. However, I spend very little on Merch and everybody that visits the park not as an AP spends more on merch than I did. So I have to concede that the research the parks have done is accurate.

Now does this mean all parks want to get rid of AP holders? hell no. They do want to direct AP holders to less busy times though. So if Sundays are getting crowded they may reduce the number of Sundays on the passes. Or raise the price to price out the lower budget people that spend the least amount at the parks. It is the reason the Uni CA and DL restructured and changed their AP holders. They needed to reduce the number of people on crowded days, so they wanted to reduce AP holders. It is also why WDW changed their structure and essentially added black out dates to their annual pass. They decided to give us Photopass because probably 90% of AP holders never bought pictures anyways. So they are gaining more by getting us to not come those 4 busiest weeks by giving us something we never spent money on anyways. It was a huge win for them and not a PR disaster to AP holders.

Uni does these types of surveys all the time for their regular AP holders and HHN people. Mainly because they want to see where that tipping point is. How far can they go without harming their bottom line, but accomplishing what they want to accomplish.

 

[*Q*]

FFP holders are also more likely to eat a meal at home before heading to Universal.

I'm a FFP holder and I almost always have dinner at the park.

 

[s8film40]

To be clear - I don't want FFP to be cut. Just telling you how it is. Obviously you have your own thoughts on it though, regardless of what we're telling you how it is.

I appreciate you telling me "how it is", I should also be clear I'm not just expressing my thoughts I'm talking about what I've seen and experienced first hand as well as what I've learned with discussions from friends and acquaintances I have who work at various levels at Universal. I don't discount that this possibility could be true I'm just pointing out that in the real world outside of discussion forums this idea is literally laughed at.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they would get rid of FFP. But could they raise the price, offer less days, etc? Probably. But it is pretty well known in the theme park world that AP holders in a single visit spend less money than a day visitor or a vacationing person. Reason being is if you are going 15 nights, you are buying 1 shirt, not 15 shirts. You probably have a budget and you stick to that budget each visit. A single day person probably has a larger budget for that one night than you do for your one night because you are going 15 nights. Now is there exceptions to this rule, of course. But all of the parks have looked into this and they all conclude that in a single visit AP holders spend less. I have been on your side of the argument because we spend a crap ton of money at the parks, but I had to come to the conclusion I am not normal. However, I spend very little on Merch and everybody that visits the park not as an AP spends more on merch than I did. So I have to concede that the research the parks have done is accurate.

Now does this mean all parks want to get rid of AP holders? hell no. They do want to direct AP holders to less busy times though. So if Sundays are getting crowded they may reduce the number of Sundays on the passes. Or raise the price to price out the lower budget people that spend the least amount at the parks. It is the reason the Uni CA and DL restructured and changed their AP holders. They needed to reduce the number of people on crowded days, so they wanted to reduce AP holders. It is also why WDW changed their structure and essentially added black out dates to their annual pass. They decided to give us Photopass because probably 90% of AP holders never bought pictures anyways. So they are gaining more by getting us to not come those 4 busiest weeks by giving us something we never spent money on anyways. It was a huge win for them and not a PR disaster to AP holders.

Uni does these types of surveys all the time for their regular AP holders and HHN people. Mainly because they want to see where that tipping point is. How far can they go without harming their bottom line, but accomplishing what they want to accomplish.

I agree it's all about balance and like I said before it seems every year they simply try to reconfirm that the usual ~$10 bump won't upset that. There's a reason why SeaWorld essentially doesn't event allow a local guest to purchase a one day ticket, it's because they know the number of people who would return and spend a little bit of money far outweighs the number of people who would be willing to buy 2 tickets. Same is true for HHN for most people it's a one time thing, the value in coming back another night or two is really only about $10 - $20, the value to Universal is much greater so they certainly want to encourage that as much as possible.

 

[Brian G.]

I appreciate you telling me "how it is", I should also be clear I'm not just expressing my thoughts I'm talking about what I've seen and experienced first hand as well as what I've learned with discussions from friends and acquaintances I have who work at various levels at Universal. I don't discount that this possibility could be true I'm just pointing out that in the real world outside of discussion forums this idea is literally laughed at.

For the record, my intention was not to come off brash, so my apologies if it did.

 

[IzzyB]

I agree it's all about balance and like I said before it seems every year they simply try to reconfirm that the usual ~$10 bump won't upset that. There's a reason why SeaWorld essentially doesn't event allow a local guest to purchase a one day ticket, it's because they know the number of people who would return and spend a little bit of money far outweighs the number of people who would be willing to buy 2 tickets. Same is true for HHN for most people it's a one time thing, the value in coming back another night or two is really only about $10 - $20, the value to Universal is much greater so they certainly want to encourage that as much as possible.

Sea World is a different beast all together. They are the one park that specifically caters to the locals because they need that business. They are hurting and they need the locals to go to be a success. They have more events targeted to the locals than any other park and many of their events tie in food and make it so you have to go for long periods of time making it hard to not eat there. They have the BBQ event which of course you are going to spend money on BBQ. They have Christmas where they add so many shows you can't even do everything in one day. So you spend longer time periods, plus they have special "holiday" food making you want to eat there even as a local. At Halloween on a smaller scale they do the same. They add extra summer shows again making it for a longer day if you go in the summer. Sea World is the one park that wants their locals coming year round (only park with no black out date pass) and the one park that successfully gets the locals to spend money on food. Also, keep in mind that Sea World handles busier times better than any other park because of their shows. So they also don't care as much about those really busy weeks.

 

[s8film40]

For the record, my intention was not to come off brash, so my apologies if it did.

Not at all, I always appreciate having a good discussion and that's all I took it as.

I just wanted to point out that my objective wasn't to just express my opinion but what I've come to realize over time as common knowledge amongst those at Universal.

I think this is a valid point to discuss, but like everything those of us on here get into things pretty deep and analyze every aspect of these events. It's all fun though.

Ultimately I'll be getting a FFP this year and at the request of my wife will be trying (probably failing) to keep my f&b budget under $500.

 

[s8film40]

Sea World is a different beast all together. They are the one park that specifically caters to the locals because they need that business. They are hurting and they need the locals to go to be a success. They have more events targeted to the locals than any other park and many of their events tie in food and make it so you have to go for long periods of time making it hard to not eat there. They have the BBQ event which of course you are going to spend money on BBQ. They have Christmas where they add so many shows you can't even do everything in one day. So you spend longer time periods, plus they have special "holiday" food making you want to eat there even as a local. At Halloween on a smaller scale they do the same. They add extra summer shows again making it for a longer day if you go in the summer. Sea World is the one park that wants their locals coming year round (only park with no black out date pass) and the one park that successfully gets the locals to spend money on food. Also, keep in mind that Sea World handles busier times better than any other park because of their shows. So they also don't care as much about those really busy weeks.

HHN is very much a local focused event, I think this is why they have a similar approach of trying to get locals to spend an extended amount of time at HHN.

 

[IzzyB]

HHN is very much a local focused event, I think this is why they have a similar approach of trying to get locals to spend an extended amount of time at HHN.

But it is concentrated over a month, where Sea World has events spread out thru the whole year. The difference is people have monthly budgets and therefore they only have so much to spend over a month vs. at Sea World if they go to an event in December it effects their December budget, but then can go to Brew and spend just as much as it effects a different month budget. Again, Uni wants people to come again and again, but they would rather have more single day passes. There is a point where the crowds caused by a FFP will cause less single day passes. Have we reached that point? Not sure, but when we do they will begin to limit FFPs a little more. Either by raising the price or removing days.

 

[s8film40]

But it is concentrated over a month, where Sea World has events spread out thru the whole year. The difference is people have monthly budgets and therefore they only have so much to spend over a month vs. at Sea World if they go to an event in December it effects their December budget, but then can go to Brew and spend just as much as it effects a different month budget. Again, Uni wants people to come again and again, but they would rather have more single day passes. There is a point where the crowds caused by a FFP will cause less single day passes. Have we reached that point? Not sure, but when we do they will begin to limit FFPs a little more. Either by raising the price or removing days.

Not everyone budgets like they should. You have to also keep in mind the demographics that HHN targets. The young party crowd for example who realize they can upgrade their pass for a few dollars to go two nights are the type who next or another weekend may realize since they already have the pass they can go to HHN another weekend instead of going to downtown Orlando.

I agree there is a point where FFP can affect ticket sales, I think they to a very small degree began to approach this in 2014. They made several changes last year to address this. It seems very telling that they would desperately attempt to add capacity rather than change the FFP program.

 

[IzzyB]

Not everyone budgets like they should. You have to also keep in mind the demographics that HHN targets. The young party crowd for example who realize they can upgrade their pass for a few dollars to go two nights are the type who next or another weekend may realize since they already have the pass they can go to HHN another weekend instead of going to downtown Orlando.

I agree there is a point where FFP can affect ticket sales, I think they to a very small degree began to approach this in 2014. They made several changes last year to address this. It seems very telling that they would desperately attempt to add capacity rather than change the FFP program.

Obviously they would want to add capacity as then they can allow more people in, but I don't know with all the construction that is a realistic option.

 

[s8film40]

Obviously they would want to add capacity as then they can allow more people in, but I don't know with all the construction that is a realistic option.

The construction will be done with in a few years. Twister, Disaster and Beetlejuice were all typically closed during HHN anyways so the next few years should be business as usual.

 

[Brian G.]

The construction will be done with in a few years. Twister, Disaster and Beetlejuice were all typically closed during HHN anyways so the next few years should be business as usual.

But Twister's queue, Disaster's queue & extended queue and occasionally BJ were used for the event. Twister is just a different entry point for 1 house but the loss of Disaster means they are going to have to get creative again. Also, last time construction was heavy, we got HHN 22.

 

[s8film40]

But Twister's queue, Disaster's queue & extended queue and occasionally BJ were used for the event. Twister is just a different entry point for 1 house but the loss of Disaster means they are going to have to get creative again. Also, last time construction was heavy, we got HHN 22.

Yeah, like you said they'll have to get creative with the logistics of moving people around, but the capacity should still be the same. It seemed to me the issue with 22 was the sudden unexpected Transformers construction. It seems like right now everything that's going on is already underway.

 

[*Q*]

Yeah, like you said they'll have to get creative with the logistics of moving people around, but the capacity should still be the same. It seemed to me the issue with 22 was the sudden unexpected Transformers construction. It seems like right now everything that's going on is already underway.

With the exception of KidZone.

 

[s8film40]

With the exception of KidZone.

Yes that too, I don't think they'll be any surprises with that either.

 

[graspthesun]

Hey guys! I've missed y'all.

Now that we're caught up, I wanted to throw in an anecdote. I get ROF w/ Express every year and I spend on average $25 per event night (3-4 nights usage) and between $100-150 in souvenirs total over my time there. Universal is getting maybe $250 out of me in addition to my ticket prices. Add in my husband, and they're getting about $350-400 over the ticket price for the length of the event.