3rd Quarter Earnings | Page 2 | Inside Universal Forums
Inside Universal Forums
Inside Universal Forums
  • Home
  • Forums
    New posts Search forums Account Upgrades
  • News
    Universal Studios Hollywood Universal Orlando Universal Studios Japan Universal Studios Singapore Universal Studios Beijing
  • Merchandise
Log in Register
What's new Search

Search

By:
  • New posts
  • Search forums
  • Account Upgrades
Menu
Log in

Register

Install the app
  • Signing up for a Premium Membership is a donation to help Inside Universal maintain costs and offers an ad-free experience on the forum. Learn more about it here.
  • Forums
  • Universal Parks & Resorts
  • Universal Orlando Resort
  • Miscellaneous Universal
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.

3rd Quarter Earnings

  • Thread starter Thread starter agentj
  • Start date Start date Oct 23, 2014
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
First Prev 2 of 2

Go to page

Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Oct 23, 2014
  • #21
hatetofly said:
Don't know if this helps but most of the Cabana Bay management staff was brought it from various Loews Hotels across the country.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have been wondering what the deal is for years. Your post offers that Loews was committed to bringing the site up to snuff and training newbies really fast. Sounds custodian to me...
 
Hatetofly

Hatetofly

Superstar
Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
11,127
  • Oct 23, 2014
  • #22
Teebin said:
Thanks, I have been wondering what the deal is for years. Your post offers that Loews was committed to bringing the site up to snuff and training newbies really fast. Sounds custodian to me...
Click to expand...

The site manager I spoke with transferred here from Philadelphia. Our conversation consisted of Floridas bug situation and humidity. He asked me about questions regarding the seasons and winter here so not sure if he was staying long term or just training. He told me that several managers from up and down the eastern seaboard were currently at Cabanna as well as the other on site hotels.
 
Nick

Nick

Veteran Member
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2011
Messages
31,225
Location
Orlando
  • Oct 23, 2014
  • #23
I'd bet they just brought people in to get the resort going, training people and then picking the right ones to promote eventually. Really just getting the resort on it's feet with people that know what they're doing.
 
UniversalCityFL

UniversalCityFL

Minion
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
510
  • Oct 24, 2014
  • #24
Teebin said:
Do any one of you know how the Loews hotels work financially for Universal? Who makes what from what? Is Loews a hired custodian or do they pay a royalty. As it is Universal's property and construction, I would assume it is the former.
Click to expand...

So, you asking this question led me down a rabbit hole and I found a treasure trove of licensing information on the SEC site. These SEC 10-K Annual Reports have to be available, legally, to investors so there's no confusion about the risks of investing in the company. There's a lot of stuff here that a lot of us have been wondering about for a while.



The Hotels:

"We own and operate two theme parks, Universal Studios Florida and Universal’s Islands of Adventure, and CityWalk, a dining, retail and entertainment complex, at Universal Orlando Resort, a multi-day vacation destination. Universal Orlando Resort also includes three themed hotels, Loews Portofino Bay Hotel at Universal Orlando, Hard Rock Hotel® and Loews Royal Pacific Resort at Universal Orlando, each of which are located within walking distance of our theme parks and CityWalk. These hotels are owned by UCF Hotel Venture, in which Universal City Studios Productions has an indirect noncontrolling interest. The results of the UCF Hotel Venture are not contained in our consolidated financial statements. We derive our revenue related to the three themed hotels owned by UCF Hotel Venture from lease payments reflected in the "other" revenue line item of our consolidated statements of income."



So, Universal created a shill company to own the hotels, and then charges its own company lease payments for operating the hotel. Amazing.



Marvel:

"USC has a license agreement with Marvel Characters, Inc. (“Marvel”) pursuant to which UCDP holds a sublicense to use properties and elements owned by Marvel. Marvel receives an annual license fee and a guaranteed annual royalty fee for all merchandise themed with Marvel characters. Pursuant to the license agreement, the Marvel properties are entitled to certain levels of advertising and publicity in connection with the marketing of our theme parks. Our use of the Marvel elements for theming, promotions and other purposes are subject to Marvel’s reasonable approval. We have geographical exclusivity east of the Mississippi River with regard to the specific Marvel characters we utilize. The license for the Marvel properties does not prohibit its assignment and is for the duration of our use of attractions themed around Marvel characters.

On December 31, 2009, the Walt Disney Company acquired Marvel Entertainment. We believe our agreement with Marvel stands and that the transaction will not impact our ability to use characters and attractions currently in use. In addition, we do not expect the transaction to have any impact on our guest experience.

In addition, the applicable NBCU subsidiary executed an agreement with Disney Enterprises, Inc. that maintains the confidentiality of our confidential business information provided pursuant to our and our affiliates’ agreements with Marvel and prevents inappropriate disclosure of our confidential information that could be used by the Parks and Resorts business of The Walt Disney Company, or for any of the theme parks or resorts of The Walt Disney Company (or any of its subsidiaries’ or licensees’), for anticompetitive purposes. After two years, such agreement is terminable by either party on six months notice.
"



Interesting. So Marvel can't let Disney Parks know what Universal is up to if they know any insider information.




Toon Lagoon:

"Universal City Studios LLC, a subsidiary of USC, has a license agreement with King Features Syndicate, a division of The Hearst Corporation, pursuant to which we obtain the right to use certain characters, such as Popeye®, Bluto™ and Olive Oyl™. We have a license to use the King Features elements for our theme park attractions, advertising, publicity and marketing, subject to reasonable approval rights of King Features, until 2019, with options to renew in ten-year successive increments so long as we continue to operate a Popeye® themed attraction. The license is assignable and Universal City Studios LLC has theme park exclusivity within the United States and Canada with respect to the use of the characters and a non-exclusive right to manufacture and sell related merchandise. King Features receives an annual fee and a guaranteed annual royalty fee for all merchandise themed with King Features characters."


Bilge-Rat Barges must be open in order for Toon Lagoon to exist!




Harry Potter:

"Pursuant to the WB Agreement, UCDP has directly licensed certain rights to the characters and other intellectual property contained in the Harry Potter™ books and motion pictures. This license is used, among other purposes, for appropriately themed attractions, merchandise stores and food venues which have been incorporated in a new themed area at Universal’s Islands of Adventure that includes a re-themed portion of one of its existing “islands” and additional undeveloped real estate. This themed-island opened in June 2010. Under the terms of the agreement, we have the right to use the licensed property until approximately nine years after the scheduled grand opening date of the attractions. We also have the ability to extend the term for two successive five-year renewal periods. Our use of the licensed property for the attractions, theming, promotions, merchandise and other purposes is subject to the sole approval of WB. The agreement provides us with the exclusive right to use the licensed property in theme parks, amusement parks, water parks and stand-alone themed venues similar to those found in a theme park within a 250-mile radius around Universal’s Islands of Adventure. UCDP will pay WB various license fees, merchandise royalty payments, and other payments throughout the term of the agreement"


So the Harry Potter agreement is good for 20 years max, and then they would have to strike another agreement (or not).


Check out the Security and Exchange Commissions Report online for Universal City Development Partners. You're looking for form 10-K. There's lots of juicy stuff, although the most recent report is from Fiscal 2010. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...65644/d10k.htm
 
Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
Frank Drackman

Frank Drackman

Webslinger
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
2,847
Location
Mouse Mountain
  • Oct 24, 2014
  • #25
Teebin said:
Do any one of you know how the Loews hotels work financially for Universal? Who makes what from what? Is Loews a hired custodian or do they pay a royalty. As it is Universal's property and construction, I would assume it is the former.
Click to expand...


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ew-hotel-conventional-rooms-universal-orlando

I think this article had mentioned Universal owning 25%...was surprised that the Seminoals get a % of all the hotels.
 
Mad Dog

Mad Dog

Veteran Member
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
23,881
Location
Pittsburgh area
  • Oct 24, 2014
  • #26
Kuribo: Thanks for the great info...Looks like 2019 is the key year for Toon Lagoon. It either stays till at least 2029, or it goes away. I love Toon Lagoon, but my bet is that area will change when the rights expire.
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #27
Kuribo said:
So, you asking this question led me down a rabbit hole and I found a treasure trove of licensing information on the SEC site. These SEC 10-K Annual Reports have to be available, legally, to investors so there's no confusion about the risks of investing in the company. There's a lot of stuff here that a lot of us have been wondering about for a while.
Click to expand...

Geeez, I just caught this post four days later. Thanks Kuribo, and thanks for the highlights. Fascinating, all of it.
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #28
Thank you for your post as well FD!

Has not Chad already been proven wrong in his dire conclusions below? Seth has led me to believe so...

The cheaper rates will also come with fewer amenities. Like guests in the three existing hotels, travelers booking rooms in Cabana Bay will get early admission to Universal Orlando's theme parks. But unlike guests in the other hotels, they will not receive complimentary front-of-the-line ride passes.

That's a significant philosophical shift, said Chad Emerson, an author who has written about Orlando's theme-park industry. By not including front-of-the-line passes with Cabana Bay bookings, Universal is essentially "tiering" its on-property guests based on their level of accommodations.

By contrast, Disney World, which owns approximately 26,000 hotel rooms, still offers the same perks to guests staying in its "value" hotels as it does to those in its deluxe hotels.

"For Universal, it is a big risk to be the first to do this compared to Disney World," Emerson said.

"If Universal is truly trying to compete with Disney for value-level, on-property lodging, they would be wise to let Disney be the first to tier amenities in such an overt way," he added. "It makes very little sense for Universal to attempt to lure more guests to stay on property — and then take away the most valuable amenity for staying on property at Universal for those new value-level guests."

Norsworthy said Cabana Bay is designed to give travelers a more diverse set of on-property options and price points. Not including front-of-the-line privileges with the new hotel could also dissuade travelers from trading down from the higher-priced resorts, ensuring that the new hotel doesn't cannibalize their bookings.
Click to expand...
 
natespf

natespf

--Classified--
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
1,653
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #29
The cheaper rates will also come with fewer amenities. Like guests in the three existing hotels, travelers booking rooms in Cabana Bay will get early admission to Universal Orlando's theme parks. But unlike guests in the other hotels, they will not receive complimentary front-of-the-line ride passes.

That's a significant philosophical shift, said Chad Emerson, an author who has written about Orlando's theme-park industry. By not including front-of-the-line passes with Cabana Bay bookings, Universal is essentially "tiering" its on-property guests based on their level of accommodations.

By contrast, Disney World, which owns approximately 26,000 hotel rooms, still offers the same perks to guests staying in its "value" hotels as it does to those in its deluxe hotels.

"For Universal, it is a big risk to be the first to do this compared to Disney World," Emerson said.

"If Universal is truly trying to compete with Disney for value-level, on-property lodging, they would be wise to let Disney be the first to tier amenities in such an overt way," he added. "It makes very little sense for Universal to attempt to lure more guests to stay on property — and then take away the most valuable amenity for staying on property at Universal for those new value-level guests."

Norsworthy said Cabana Bay is designed to give travelers a more diverse set of on-property options and price points. Not including front-of-the-line privileges with the new hotel could also dissuade travelers from trading down from the higher-priced resorts, ensuring that the new hotel doesn't cannibalize their bookings.
Click to expand...

What does Disney offer to all of their hotel guests that is comparable to the value of Express? The price of the Express would often be much higher than the room rate at CBBR, plus if it were diluted that much it would greatly reduce the benefit of having it in the first place.

Being the captain of the obvious that I am I needed to also point out you can not take a monorail from Pop Century to MK, and there is no boat from the All Star resorts to Epcot. Nope, they still got to rely on buses.
 
Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  • Like
Reactions: Mad Dog
Mad Dog

Mad Dog

Veteran Member
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
23,881
Location
Pittsburgh area
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #30
Teebin said:
Thank you for your post as well FD!

Has not Chad already been proven wrong in his dire conclusions below? Seth has led me to believe so...
Click to expand...

I think so too. We loved Cabana Bay. Great value price wise and it was equal to if not better than the Disney moderate resorts we've stayed at. Also, fantastic beautiful pool areas and a Lazy River that doesn't get clogged with unruly kids. Charging for lazy river rafts was a stroke of genius to keep the crowds manageable. The suites are really nice. They utilize the fairly small space quite well. I will definitely stay there again. It's a nice combination for a vacation to use some days at Cabana and then finish at one of the deluxe hotels. And the bus transportation was great. We never waited for a bus during our five nights stay. They were either waiting or pulling up at both the hotel & the parking garage. All in all it was a pleasant surprise. Way better than we expected. And housekeeping was good too. Nice food court also.
 
jtsalien

jtsalien

Dragon Trainer
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
6,511
Location
T.A.R.D.I.S.
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #31
natespf said:
What does Disney offer to all of their hotel guests that is comparable to the value of Express? The price of the Express would often be much higher than the room rate at CBBR, plus if it were diluted that much it would greatly reduce the benefit of having it in the first place.

Being the captain of the obvious that I am I needed to also point out you can not take a monorail from Pop Century to MK, and there is no boat from the All Star resorts to Epcot. Nope, they still got to rely on buses.
Click to expand...

Magical Express. Extra Magic Hours, which you can't buy into like you can with express. And I believe onsite guests get to schedule FP+ the earliest, don't they? I get what you are trying to say, but people love "the bubble" for a reason.
 
shiekra38

shiekra38

Superstar
BANNED
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
16,111
Location
Florida
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #32
jtsalien said:
Magical Express. Extra Magic Hours, which you can't buy into like you can with express. And I believe onsite guests get to schedule FP+ the earliest, don't they? I get what you are trying to say, but people love "the bubble" for a reason.
Click to expand...

Magical Express is really not a perk, rather a necessity dressed as a perk

EMH is a pretty cool thing, but Universal's early entry more than makes up for it

Not sure about FP+
 
jtsalien

jtsalien

Dragon Trainer
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
6,511
Location
T.A.R.D.I.S.
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #33
shiekra38 said:
Magical Express is really not a perk, rather a necessity dressed as a perk

EMH is a pretty cool thing, but Universal's early entry more than makes up for it

Not sure about FP+
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to say any of those were better than Express. Simply, that almost all of the benefits are available to all resort members.
 
Teebin

Teebin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
20,673
Location
East Central Florida
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #34
Sooooouuuuuuooooo... Universal tiering amenities does not seem to have hurt Cabana Bay's popularity... it seems to be loading the rooms quite well during the popular seasons. A better view, giant gingerbread house in the lobby, monorail transport and Incan temple at the pool, is after all, an amenity.

I can see where a family would say, "we don't need express" and love Cabana.

I could argue that a 200' Volcano is an amenity. Right?
 
1.21Gigawatts

1.21Gigawatts

Shark Bait
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
409
Location
Hill Valley 2015
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #35
Not sure if this was posted yet, but I read an article on Buzz Feed that goes well with this topic of discussion. Naturally the very first comment on the article is from some rediculous Disney fan boy...lol

http://www.buzzfeed.com/peterlauria/just-a-reminder-that-comcast-also-owns-a-huge-theme-park-bus
 
natespf

natespf

--Classified--
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
1,653
  • Oct 28, 2014
  • #36
Yes, I was not trying to say Disney does not offer perks for staying onsite. Rather none of those perks could justifiably be tiered. Their perks just do not compare to the value of free unlimited Express. Universal would be better off giving a free stay at CBBR with the purchase of Express. So if you buy 2 people 2 days of the Express passes at $240 you get a free $100 stay, or for 3 days at $360 would wave the $200 for a 2 night stay and so on. Remember with hotel stays there is one more day than how ever many nights booked. That would kind of be a neat promotion but stepping back into reality the Deluxe hotels are in most cases cheaper than staying at the Value hotel and getting Express. And it does not need to be just 2 people; 3, 4 or 5 people can stay in the same room and all get the free Express every day.

Disney's hotels are generally more expensive, while Universal's hotels IMO are higher quality (the ones that are comparable). What Disney can justifiably tier already is, and that's the transportation. But even the higher end hotels rely on buses to get to other areas of the resort.
 
K

kimlovesfl

Shark Bait
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
437
  • Oct 28, 2014
  • #37
You all have to remember that Disney's FP+ is free, while Universal's Express has to be purchased, and on some really busy days, it is as much as, and sometimes more, than the cost of a one day base ticket, so you can't quite compare the hotel amenities since the front-of-the-line access systems aren't the same.

I am a Comcast shareholder, and this makes me very happy.
 
Frank Drackman

Frank Drackman

Webslinger
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
2,847
Location
Mouse Mountain
  • Oct 29, 2014
  • #38
I do not know anything about Chad, I only know he wrote a book about Orlando theme parks because the article mentioned that. I assume he does not know a lot about business.

I am fortunate (as a theme park fan) to live in FL, but we are still far enough away from Orlando that we need a room anytime we go up there. We have stayed at all four of Universal's hotels at least once. Before Cabanna, we would stay off-site for a good number of our trips as the deluxe properties were out of reach for what we wanted to spend on a quick getaway.

The times of year we try to go, express does not seem worth it or when a trip is mainly for HHN, it did not make sense for us to pay for a deluxe room. Now that CBBR has opened, we are much more likely to stay on-site. I am sure there are many others out there like us.

Early entry and (frequent) transportation to the park/city walk are great perks. For the studios, I think the only ride that gets an unmanageable wait for us is Despicable Me, but when we are on site, it is so easy to get on at regular opening time. HRRR tends to be a walk on as well in the first hour.

IOA, Spider-Man is no problem in the first hour as well.

Anyway, we figured CBBR would do well and we knew we would be more likely to stay on property for as long as the price point is about the same as the off site rooms in the immediate area.
 
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
First Prev 2 of 2

Go to page

You must log in or register to reply here.
Share:
Facebook X Bluesky LinkedIn Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link

Book with our Travel Partners

MEI Travel

Latest posts

  • SeanPhilly
    Halloween Horror Nights 34 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors
    • Latest: SeanPhilly
    • 42 minutes ago
    Halloween Horror Nights 34
  • GAcoaster
    Dark Universe - General Discussion Thread
    • Latest: GAcoaster
    • Today at 5:18 AM
    Universal Epic Universe
  • T
    Disney Starlight - Nighttime Parade (Summer 2025)
    • Latest: Tobias
    • Today at 3:34 AM
    Magic Kingdom
  • Freak
    Halloween Horror Nights 2025 (USH) - News & General Discussion
    • Latest: Freak
    • Today at 2:05 AM
    Halloween Horror Nights 2025
  • TheUniC6
    The AI Discussion Thread
    • Latest: TheUniC6
    • Yesterday at 11:17 PM
    General Discussions

Share this page

Facebook X Bluesky LinkedIn Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link
  • Forums
  • Universal Parks & Resorts
  • Universal Orlando Resort
  • Miscellaneous Universal
  • Style variation
    System Light Dark
  • Contact us
  • Terms and rules
  • Privacy policy
  • Help
  • Home
  • RSS
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2025 XenForo Ltd.
  • This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Accept Learn more…
Back
Top