Avengers: Doomsday (2026)

[Bigskinny0310]

Call me sufficiently interested. If it doesn't deliver, I might be done with MCU stuff for good, but as it stands I'm convinced to give it (potentially) one last ride.

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They really can't let go of that Captain America Hammer moment, can they though? It's like a toddler stumbling upon an actually funny joke that gets a big response, and then ramming it into the ground through repetition until it's meaningless.

I think it's interesting (not in an attacking tone) that you might be done with the MCU if this doesn't deliver. Marvel will look completely different following Secret Wars. The brunt of the focus will be on the X-Men and the F4. The Avengers realm characters won't be seen as much. It will essentially be a new franchise. Would you be out on that?

I mean there is logical reason why Thor would verify Steve Rogers, yes it plays on the Endgame moment, but there is a greater purpose other than the rule of cool.

 

[Freak]

I think I realized why me and a lot other don’t seem to be as excited for this as I should be…

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but a lot of this focuses on the newer characters that I either am not fond of or feel apathetic about. Thunderbolts was a decent movie but I can’t say I’m invested in them as much as the phase 1-2 OGs. Same with F4. Theyre also focused on a lot of the Wakanda Forever characters which was a movie I really didn’t care for.

If they focused a lot more on the older characters I would probably be more excited for this.

 

[DOOMBOT]

I think it's interesting (not in an attacking tone) that you might be done with the MCU if this doesn't deliver. Marvel will look completely different following Secret Wars. The brunt of the focus will be on the X-Men and the F4. The Avengers realm characters won't be seen as much. It will essentially be a new franchise. Would you be out on that?

I mean there is logical reason why Thor would verify Steve Rogers, yes it plays on the Endgame moment, but there is a greater purpose other than the rule of cool.

Valid question yeah. I'll mostly engage with it as it comes, which is basically how I've already been doing things. I have largely already jumped off the Marvel train. I didn't see Quantumania, Marvels, Brave New World, and I haven't watched any of the shows since I couldn't get into Moon Knight. I saw GOTG way later (and deeply loved it actually), Deadpool felt notable enough to watch, and Fantastic Four was a fluke because friends were going out.

I've got no attachments to any of the X-men or F4 crew, so the idea alone isn't enough to sell me yet. And before No Way Home / Multiverse, I watched through all of the Fox / Sony Marvel films as homework, and got kinda burned for the effort haha! That's how deep and commited I was to the MCU project back in 2021/2022. I was genuinely really invested.

I'll treat them like regular films, which frankly means I likely won't see most of them in the theatres, if any. If they get hugely positive crowd responses, I'll see them down the line.

The question is far more "Will I have a reason to jump back on the MCU train", cause again, I've been happily away for awhile.
I've simply had my fill of mediocre superhero content for a long, long time haha. There's a lot of other cool art I wanna engage with and energy is limited.

---

The moment is sure to make sense in the context of the movie. It'd be weird if they didn't bring it up at all haha. but it also still feels kinda desperate as the post-trailer "WOW" moment stinger. The world is a million miles away from the one that cheered for the Hammer in 2019 or Andrew Garfield popping up in 2021. It's overplaying the hits.

 

[Lucky Planet]

I think I realized why me and a lot other don’t seem to be as excited for this as I should be…

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but a lot of this focuses on the newer characters that I either am not fond of or feel apathetic about. Thunderbolts was a decent movie but I can’t say I’m invested in them as much as the phase 1-2 OGs. Same with F4. Theyre also focused on a lot of the Wakanda Forever characters which was a movie I really didn’t care for.

If they focused a lot more on the older characters I would probably be more excited for this.

I don't mean to sound rude, I'm sorry to say this to Namor, but realistically who cares about Namor lol.
the trailer have him like this cool epic reveal in the throne and then flying, and I'm like, ....oh yeah, that dude, he's cool I guess

 

[Tbad556]

Maybe it's a personal problem, but I sometimes feel like I'm watching a completely different product than those online when it comes to the MCU. The cinematography has largely been bad. The CGI is undercooked and rushed. The stories are mid. The jokes have gotten repetitive. The rereleases and financial gimmicks (hello InfinityVision) are embarrassing. And so on. It's nothing new for the product, but the consensus still seems largely surprised when that's what is delivered each time.

I can't latch onto this world where I'm supposed to judge this on the same scale as serious "cinema". The MCU has never hit the highs of something like The Dark Knight. They frequently let completely underqualified or unknown individuals write their movies. So, why is the bar set so high?

This looks like mindless entertainment where I can watch creatives smash iconic characters around together for a few hours. I'm in. If you want true creative depth, I don't really get why you're still torturing yourself with this franchise, honestly. It's making a billion dollars and won't "fix" the MCU.

(For the record, I never saw The Marvels, Brave New World, or F4 because my personal investment level for these movies is "I'll get to it at some point")

 

[Clive]

Maybe it's a personal problem, but I sometimes feel like I'm watching a completely different product than those online when it comes to the MCU. The cinematography has largely been bad. The CGI is undercooked and rushed. The stories are mid. The jokes have gotten repetitive. The rereleases and financial gimmicks (hello InfinityVision) are embarrassing. And so on. It's nothing new for the product, but the consensus still seems largely surprised when that's what is delivered each time.

I can't latch onto this world where I'm supposed to judge this on the same scale as serious "cinema". The MCU has never hit the highs of something like The Dark Knight. They frequently let completely underqualified or unknown individuals write their movies. Why is the bar set so high?

This looks like mindless entertainment where I can watch creatives smash iconic characters around together for a few hours. I'm in. If you want true creative depth, I don't really get why you're still torturing yourself with this franchise, honestly. It's making a billion dollars and won't "fix" the MCU.

(For the record, I never saw The Marvels, Brave New World, or F4)

Speaking as a Marvel fan who had a largely great time on average up until (and including) Endgame, I have to agree with you. I think the last true significant film in the MCU lineup, in terms of craft, was arguably the first Black Panther. Eternals and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 are the only films post-Endgame that I'd consider even remotely "good."

I also think that, even with all these caveats, the films have continued to get observably worse, with the lows getting lower. Uglier cinematography, worse effects, bafflingly awful writing and directing. It's unfortunate.

 

[Tbad556]

Speaking as a Marvel fan who had a largely great time on average up until (and including) Endgame, I have to agree with you. I think the last true significant film in the MCU lineup, in terms of craft, was arguably the first Black Panther. Eternals and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 are the only films post-Endgame that I'd consider even remotely "good."

I also think that, even with all these caveats, the films have continued to get observably worse, with the lows getting lower. Uglier cinematography, worse effects, bafflingly awful writing and directing. It's unfortunate.

I'd put myself on the same timeline of enjoyment for the most part. I'd also add that I've read a decent chunk of the comics and do generally like the material. It's not like I want to dislike the movies or think they're bad. It just kinda feels like a "fool me 10 times, shame on me" situation lol.

I'd fully agree that the lows have gotten lower too. The reliance on StageCraft feels like a big part of the ugliness. I saw a comment yesterday that pointed it out, but eventually, you notice that every room is round because of the lazy usage. It feeds into a feeling of sameness. But like I said, it doesn't surprise me either. There's a reason no one talks about these movies like they do The Odyssey. The love, practicality, and expertise aren't there. So why should I be surprised going into the 39th film in this saga that it looks and reads like the 28th or the 34th? It feels silly.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Maybe it's a personal problem, but I sometimes feel like I'm watching a completely different product than those online when it comes to the MCU. The cinematography has largely been bad. The CGI is undercooked and rushed. The stories are mid. The jokes have gotten repetitive. The rereleases and financial gimmicks (hello InfinityVision) are embarrassing. And so on. It's nothing new for the product, but the consensus still seems largely surprised when that's what is delivered each time.

I can't latch onto this world where I'm supposed to judge this on the same scale as serious "cinema". The MCU has never hit the highs of something like The Dark Knight. They frequently let completely underqualified or unknown individuals write their movies. So, why is the bar set so high?

This looks like mindless entertainment where I can watch creatives smash iconic characters around together for a few hours. I'm in. If you want true creative depth, I don't really get why you're still torturing yourself with this franchise, honestly. It's making a billion dollars and won't "fix" the MCU.

(For the record, I never saw The Marvels, Brave New World, or F4 because my personal investment level for these movies is "I'll get to it at some point")

the movies are short and easy to watch. ant man 3 was terrible but interesting. I don't regret watching it.
the marvels was kinda silly but I didn't regret seeing it, Miss marvel is pretty charming to watch.
thunderbolts was okay. I love Yelena so i had to watch it ( I hated fantastic four)
but the shows .....the shows have been kind of abysmal. they have been so bad.
at this point we are all completists watching out of curiosity and hoping they get better.

 

[DOOMBOT]

The MCU is a TV show with episodes that happen to take the format of movies. Most episodes are only okay, some are bad, and then you have some episodes where they really crack something.

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I think Infinity War is a legitimately solid watch, with lots and lots of incredibly fun characterization, high stakes, some surprising pathos, a relatively quick pace, and some of the most iconic (and largely original*) cinematic moments of the 2010s. It's a film that should be a complete mess, based on what it is trying to do structurally, but somehow lands on both feet perfectly.

Spider-Man: Homecoming is one of the best teen movies of the past 15 years, with a genuinely surprising twist, charming performances from relatively underground younger actors, and a novel original plot for Spider-Man that also seamlessly served to drive home the character development of the MCU's main character, Iron Man.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 is a wonderful character piece showing what the effects of life and loss has had on a plucky "found-family" cast, with a lot of real heart and grief laced between impactful action setpieces, dynamic visuals, and some of the best jokes found in a Gunn picture. (I am not usually a fan of Gunn humor.)

I think Shang-Chi has great action, dynamic and highly readable. I think Ragnarok has a really fun palette; tonally, visually, and thematically; that's used to redevelop a few stagnant characters into something genuinely fun. I think under the Brown and Blue color grading and CGI nanosuits, a lot of the performances given by the main MCU actors are actually pretty damn solid too.

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I don't think many MCU projects meet those highs, and it's obviously foolish to expect Black Widow or Ant Man & the Wasp to hold their merit to that scrutiny. I agree that most of it is bad, and derivative, or forgettable.

But when a project works, I think it really works. and because of the way MCU projects connect, it drags the other projects up with it. I like MCU Doctor Strange not because of his two mediocre/bad movies, but because of his fun characterization in Ragnarok and Infinity War. I won't fault anyone for hoping for another hit, even if the dice have been unfavorable of late.

*original as in, not like jurassic park 4 or star wars 7 or something. its obviously from a comic book

 

[UOR92]

Speaking as a Marvel fan who had a largely great time on average up until (and including) Endgame, I have to agree with you. I think the last true significant film in the MCU lineup, in terms of craft, was arguably the first Black Panther. Eternals and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 are the only films post-Endgame that I'd consider even remotely "good."

I also think that, even with all these caveats, the films have continued to get observably worse, with the lows getting lower. Uglier cinematography, worse effects, bafflingly awful writing and directing. It's unfortunate.

Not even No Way Home makes the list of remotely good?

-

There were a lot of missteps getting here - but now that we’re here, I’m absolutely stoked. There are some of these characters I still love and care for, some not so much. Anyone saying “no one cares about these characters” are making extreme generalizations that act only as projections of their own opinions. Not sure why we can’t just say “I don’t care”. Also, anyone making the statements this movie won’t make money and be a box office smash, are…at best…wrong. I do agree though that many of these characters don’t have a ton of emotional pull the same way infinity saga characters did. That is certainly one thing this movie has going against it. But the presence of Doom and where this story may be heading will probably be enough to curb those detriments.

Either way…my happy rear emd will be planted there day 1 soaking it all in and loving that we get to be alive for these stories to come to life.

 

[Brian G.]

I really think the TV side is what killed the momentum on a lot of this. Most of the films in this phase were decent to excellent, nothing different from the first phase. Although you could argue that we didn't care much about many of these heroes.

Though I think Ant-Man 3's handling of Kang was definitely a huge problem.

 

[Clive]

I really think the TV side is what killed the momentum on a lot of this. Most of the films in this phase were decent to excellent, nothing different from the first phase. Although you could argue that we didn't care much about many of these heroes.

Though I think Ant-Man 3's handling of Kang was definitely a huge problem.

I agree that the TV side of things was the biggest problem, and Marvel leadership has publicly admitted as much. With that said... I wouldn't say their track record in the post-Endgame phases were decent to excellent, at least in my opinion.

No one asked, but:

• Spider-Man: Far From Home - fine, very forgettable
• Black Widow - never justifies its existence, flat despite a game ensemble cast and some good additions to the character roster
• Shang-Chi - one of the better ones, for sure. I really like Shang-Chi himself, but the film loses steam and never recovers once they travel into the hidden realm
• Eternals - everyone was out for blood on this one for a variety of reasons, but it's probably the best-looking of these films and is more narratively ambitious (and thus interesting) than just about everything else here. That counts for a lot, even if it doesn't all work
• Spider-Man: No Way Home - I had a fun time in the theater, it's an enjoyable ride, and it was great to spend time with some of these villains again (even Electro, who naturally deserved more the first go-around), but it's still a ride more than a film; I've forgotten most of it and have very little desire to revisit it
• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - falls into that decent category. Gnarly imagery, but the story's elements never really clicked together for me, and it felt like they left a lot on the table
• Thor: Love and Thunder - I'll controversially say I'm not as hot on Ragnarok as everyone else (it has great parts, but it's two different movies awkwardly slammed together). I even like Waititi's early films a lot, but he's unmoored here; Christian Bale is doing compelling work, but the rest is a sloppy slog
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - extraordinary circumstances robbed us of what probably could've been an excellent follow-up. Coogler does his absolute best with what he was able to cobble together, and there are a handful of moments that shine, but at the end of the day, it's lost without Boseman. It doesn't help that it came out right before Avatar: Way of Water; Panther's Atlantis isn't even in the same league, visually
• Ant-Man: Quantumania - I don't think I have to justify this one, everyone agrees it's a mess
• Guardians of the Galaxy: Volume 3 - very good! Does the extremely hard job of bringing this trilogy to a close and tackling the seemingly impossible alt-Gamora problem. One side effect of it being so damn depressing at times is I don't feel an urge to watch it again, despite its empirical quality
• The Marvels - another decent one, but only barely thanks to the likability and chemistry of the cast. The first Captain Marvel was breathtakingly terrible, so this one is better by default, but it still lacks an actual compelling story.
• Deadpool & Wolverine - not sure if we're counting this one? Basically the same notes as Spider-Man: No Way Home.
• Captain America: Brave New World - wheels are really falling off here. Embarrassing that they put this out, and that it cost what it did. Fallen a long, long way from Winter Soldier
• Thunderbolts - To your credit, another decent one, but it's also got that feeling of "been there, done that," and there's some really offputting rubberbanding of characters' morality/track records that the film never really reckons with in a satisfying way
• Fantastic Four: First Steps - a very rock solid cast and aesthetic in search of a better story

So by my count you've got two that I wouldn't put at "excellent," but at least "quite good" and at or above the average level of the pre-Endgame output. Three "decents" between Doctor Strange, Marvels, and Thunderbolts. I just can't put the Spider-Man films at that level, which I realize probably isn't a popular position.

I think a cinematic universe only sustains itself if it has more hits than misses over time. That hit/miss ratio has deteriorated, especially if you count the television releases (and I think you basically have to).

Doomsday and its follow-up is basically going to be a decision point for me: Can they convince me that these films are still worth my time, or is this an off-ramp? The trailer sadly doesn't give me a lot of hope, but that doesn't mean the final film won't work.

 

[Brian G.]

I agree that the TV side of things was the biggest problem, and Marvel leadership has publicly admitted as much. With that said... I wouldn't say their track record in the post-Endgame phases were decent to excellent, at least in my opinion.

No one asked, but:

• Spider-Man: Far From Home - fine, very forgettable
• Black Widow - never justifies its existence, flat despite a game ensemble cast and some good additions to the character roster
• Shang-Chi - one of the better ones, for sure. I really like Shang-Chi himself, but the film loses steam and never recovers once they travel into the hidden realm
• Eternals - everyone was out for blood on this one for a variety of reasons, but it's probably the best-looking of these films and is more narratively ambitious (and thus interesting) than just about everything else here. That counts for a lot, even if it doesn't all work
• Spider-Man: No Way Home - I had a fun time in the theater, it's an enjoyable ride, and it was great to spend time with some of these villains again (even Electro, who naturally deserved more the first go-around), but it's still a ride more than a film; I've forgotten most of it and have very little desire to revisit it
• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - falls into that decent category. Gnarly imagery, but the story's elements never really clicked together for me, and it felt like they left a lot on the table
• Thor: Love and Thunder - I'll controversially say I'm not as hot on Ragnarok as everyone else (it has great parts, but it's two different movies awkwardly slammed together). I even like Waititi's early films a lot, but he's unmoored here; Christian Bale is doing compelling work here, but the rest is a sloppy slog
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - extraordinary circumstances robbed us of what probably could've been an excellent follow-up. Coogler does his absolute best with what he was able to cobble together, and there are a handful of moments that shine, but at the end of the day, it's lost without Boseman. It doesn't help that it came out right before Avatar: Way of Water; Panther's Atlantis isn't even in the same league, visually
• Ant-Man: Quantumania - I don't think I have to justify this one, everyone agrees it's a mess
• Guardians of the Galaxy: Volume 3 - very good! Does the extremely hard job of bringing this trilogy to a close and tackling the seemingly impossible alt-Gamora problem. One side effect of it being so damn depressing at times is I don't have a lot of desire to revisit, despite its empirical quality
• The Marvels - another decent one, but only barely thanks to the likability and chemistry of the cast. The first Captain Marvel was breathtakingly terrible, so this one is better by default, but it still lacks an actual compelling story.
• Deadpool & Wolverine - not sure if we're counting this one? Basically the same notes as Spider-Man: No Way Home.
• Captain America: Brave New World - wheels are really falling off here. Embarrassing that they put this out, and that it cost what it did. Fallen a long, long way form Winter Soldier
• Thunderbolts - To your credit, another decent one, but it's also got that feeling of "been there, done that," and there's some really offputting rubberbanding of characters morality/track records that the film never really reckons with in a satisfying way
• Fantastic Four: First Steps - a very rock solid cast and aesthetic in search of a better story

So by my count you've got two that I wouldn't put at "excellent," but at least "quite good" and at or above the average level of the pre-Endgame output. Three "decents" between Doctor Strange, Marvels, and Thunderbolts. I just can't put the Spider-Man films at that level, which I realize probably isn't a popular position.

I think a cinematic universe only sustains itself if it has more hits than misses over time. That hit/miss ratio has deteriorated, especially if you count the television releases (and I think you basically have to).

Doomsday and its follow-up is basically going to be a decision point for me: Can they convince me that these films are still worth my time, or is this an off-ramp? The trailer sadly doesn't give me a lot of hope, but that doesn't mean the final film won't work.

I'm not too far off on most of your takes on the film, though I'm higher on Guardians, Panther, and No Way Home.

Granted, I don't think Phases 4-6 have reached the highs of Phases 1-3, and they've probably had more lows as well. The difference is that those earlier films were all anchored by a clear overarching story that kept building toward Endgame. That made it easier for audiences to overlook the weaker entries because there was always a sense that everything was leading somewhere.

The Multiverse Saga hasn't had any kind of payoff after 6 years.

So yeah, that, and the TV stuff.

 

[belloq87]

Setting aside the quality of the individual movies, there are a few key mistakes that seem pretty evident to me in Marvel's post-ENDGAME strategy:

1. Not having the post-ENDGAME Phases capped with AVENGERS movies, which really undercut momentum and the sense that these Phases were actually leading to anything.
2. Not recasting Boseman.
3. Establishing a bunch of "replacement" and/or "sidekick" heroes, few of which connected with the mass audience.
4. Benching your many of your remaining popular big/star guns (Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Wanda, Peter Quill) for multi-year and/or indefinite breaks. In the seven years between 2012 and 2019, Tony Stark and Steve Rogers were in seven and six movies, respectively; it's inexcusable we haven't seen Spidey for (nearly) five years, Strange and Wanda for four (and counting), Quill for three (and counting), etc.
5. This one pretty much goes without saying, but oversaturating the market with mediocre (on average) television product, and then leaning on that TV stuff in some of the movies.
6. Possibly/likely a COVID side-effect, but a shocking drop in the quality of cinematography and effects work in some notable films for a period of time there, cheapening the feel of the MCU as offering quality.
7. Not fully re-setting or taking a break after the Majors/Kang situation to properly and carefully build-up Doom as the replacement big bad.