Blue World Project - Orca Tank Expansion

[IzzyB]

If I was SeaWorld I would do away with the shows and use the stadium seating area to expand the tanks. As long as they give the guests awesome underwater viewing areas for the orcas I think that will be a good enough draw to get people to go. I would then have the trainers stationed throughout the exhibit to answer any questions the guests may have. To help recover some of the costs I would use some of the space to build a restaurant similar to Shark's Underwater Grill. I think that would be really popular. I think SeaWorlds goal going forward should be to become the Baltimore Aquarium with rides.

I just don't think this works in Orlando. The shows make Sea World. Those stadiums get packed and in busy times you have to get their early to get a seat. Without shows they lose a ton of capacity and they lose a large draw to their park along with a draw for special events like Christmas (where they have special Shamu show). Also, they do large corporate and charity events and they use the Shamu show for these events. The only other place they use is Pets Ahoy, but many corporate events use the Shamu one because it is a much better show. So getting rid of the show limits them to only the Pets Ahoy which will draw less bookings. Overall it won't happen in Orlando. Even what they are doing in CA will still allow for "shows" just different kind of show. But they are not losing their capacity.

Also, really there is not a need to. CA is only happening because of the lawmakers, there is no way Florida lawmakers ever consider doing something like this. It is a very conservative state at the state level. The Orlando local government is not conservative as much, but county/city people are not gonna piss any of these parks off as they bring too many jobs to the area. Most locals have no problem with Sea World because most of us know people who work for the park or have personal experiences with them enough to know blackfish is all made up bull crap. So if a county person got on their high horse and pissed Sea World off, they would probably get their ass voted out. So Sea World has no reason to remove shows from the Orlando Market.

Black fish hurt them, but less in the Orlando market. I imagine with their 5 year plan they end up with higher attendance at the end of these 5 years than they had prior to blackfish. People coming to Orlando love the new stuff and if Sea World markets itself properly (which I think they will with new management) they will have no problems grabbing some guests from the already growing guest market coming to Orlando.

 

[Teebin]

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[IzzyB]

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I know you are not for Sea World and the current Orca program based on Blackfish. But I work with a no kill shelter here in Orlando that has a ton of people working for them and volunteering for them that care for all kinds of animals. They help rescue a ton of dogs and cats and work with places all over the country. They helped a ton when the flooding in New Orleans happened to rescue animals and get them homes. They do a lot of medical care and try to save very sick dogs from dangerous situations. They have worked with Sea World for years now and do a charity event there and supply the pets for the Pets Ahoy show. The people that work there would never work with people putting animals in danger, but they didn't stop working with Sea World after Blackfish. The people in the know still very much work with them and help out their causes. That was the final nail for me to not care about the Blackfish film. These are people that will tell you that their goal is that they no longer have to exist. Meaning the population of dogs and cats is under control via neutering and getting rid of bad breeders. So that each animal has a loving home and they are not needed anymore. So they have programs outside of just being a shelter. Like they have a mobile vet clinic to go out to areas that can't afford vet care and give them reduced vet care. They also require all of their animals be spayed or neutered before leaving the shelter. They also screen all future owners and the volunteers are trained to get a sense of how they would be with animals and to give feedback to the people who approve an application. They honestly care.

 

[WAJAS]

 

[IzzyB]

He or she?

 

[Teebin]

I know you are not for Sea World and the current Orca program based on Blackfish.

No matter how much one loves and feeds and caresses and kissy kisses a massive wild animal, it will still be a massive wild animal in severe confinement.

Great work on the millennia old domesticated animals though... that is admirable.

 

[matt78]

No matter how much one loves and feeds and caresses and kissy kisses a massive wild animal, it will still be a massive wild animal in severe confinement.

Great work on the millennia old domesticated animals though... that is admirable.

The problem is that only 1 or 2 of SeaWorlds orcas have ever known life outside of their aquariums. They can't be released into the wild so what else can be done with them. I know that some people want to create sea pens to keep them in but what effect will that have on the environment surrounding the area and who is going to pay for it. The pens will have to be built and the orcas will still require people to look after them. I doubt that SeaWorld will foot the bill and you know PETA won't.

 

[Teebin]

The problem is that only 1 or 2 of SeaWorlds orcas have ever known life outside of their aquariums. They can't be released into the wild so what else can be done with them. I know that some people want to create sea pens to keep them in but what effect will that have on the environment surrounding the area and who is going to pay for it. The pens will have to be built and the orcas will still require people to look after them. I doubt that SeaWorld will foot the bill and you know PETA won't.

Right, stop the forced or allowed breeding of them. I will be cool with that.

 

[matt78]

Right, stop the forced or allowed breeding of them. I will be cool with that.

Just curious if you have that same view for all animals kept in zoos or just the orcas? Are you against the orcas breeding naturally?

 

[Teebin]

Just curious if you have that same view for all animals kept in zoos or just the orcas?

I am tempered about all animals depending on their capacity to mentally handle such captivity. I am really iffy about Gorillas too.

Are you against the orcas breeding naturally?

I am against them breeding in captivity period.

 

[darkridelover]

What about the herd of Elephants at Animal Kingdom, or the Lions that basically spend most of their lives in a cage or on Top of that Rock! What about pet fish confined in a bowl? Giraffes that aren't free to roam! If someone is against wildlife educational parks like Seaworld then they have to be against Disney too! And all animal shelters that keep dogs and cats in kennels all day long!

No matter how much one loves and feeds and caresses and kissy kisses a massive wild animal, it will still be a massive wild animal in severe confinement.

Great work on the millennia old domesticated animals though... that is admirable.

 

[Plastic Person]

If someone is against wildlife educational parks like Seaworld then they have to be against Disney too! And all animal shelters that keep dogs and cats in kennels all day long!

No they don't. I feel like we could go round in circles (like Shamu) with this, but the world's largest mammal, and that which is among the most intelligent, arguably isn't suitable for a habitat that small. This was a train of thought that existed before the melodrama of Blackfish, too.

 

[darkridelover]

The reality of the situation is these animals for the most part get great care in wildlife parks and zoo's in the United States. And by bringing this wild animals closer to people they instill a sense of wonderment and compasion and inspire thousands of kids daily to take care of animals and our planet. Which has a huge impact on all animals. Especially the ones in the wild! I look at Zoo animals as an ambassador for their species. And doing things like doubling the size of tanks is something I think we can all agree that while not ideal, is a step in the right direction for these animals.

 

[darkridelover]

The Elephants in Disney's Animal Kingdom weigh just as much as the Killer Wales at Seaword and are confined in the same way. Killer Wales are not the worlds largest mammal.

No they don't. I feel like we could go round in circles (like Shamu) with this, but the world's largest mammal, and that which is among the most intelligent, arguably isn't suitable for a habitat that small. This was a train of thought that existed before the melodrama of Blackfish, too.

 

[Teebin]

and are confined in the same way.

That isn't correct at all... their elephants have 1-4 acres. The largest show tank at seaworld is 1/4 of an acre. And the elephants have distant views of much more and no-one intruding on their personal space.

 

[darkridelover]

A wild roaming animal is still confined! And at night they stay in Pens.

That isn't correct at all... their elephants have 1-4 acres. The largest show tank at seaworld is 1/4 of an acre. And the elephants have distant views of much more and no-one intruding on their personal space.

 

[WAJAS]

That isn't correct at all... their elephants have 1-4 acres. The largest show tank at seaworld is 1/4 of an acre. And the elephants have distant views of much more and no-one intruding on their personal space.

Well, that's one of many tanks that total around 1.2 acres in size. The fact that the elephant can only travel horizontally and whales can travel in both directions does make it so the depth of the tanks should be accounted for and they are very very deep although I don't have an exact number.

I don't really want this thread to degrade into another pointless debate on this issue as neither side is going to change its position.

 

[Teebin]

A wild roaming animal is still confined! And at night they stay in Pens.

Yep, and there are 100 acre preserves in the united states created just to rescue circus elephants and 100 miles south of Orlando is a preserve to rescue laboratory chimpanzees. Both preserves are confined to some degree. Hell, our national parks are confined refuges. I like the phrase happy-medium.

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WAJA... this whole thread is one that is intended for serious debate. You call it "degrade" and I call it "expound".

 

[GAcoaster]

Zoo and aquariums like SeaWorld have very important roles in this world. With destruction of habitat and entire species they serve to help preserve these animals when the "wild" is disappearing more and more every day. They also provide education and create empathy and interest in these animals that would never happen otherwise, inspiring people to care and do something to try and help the plight of all animals. SeaWorld is a victim of their own success. They made people care about killer whales so much that they now have to justify their keeping them. I don't want to see any animal suffer, and while I do believe keeping these animals in captivity is not ideal, they are well taken care of and kept as well as possible and they serve as valuable ambassadors of their species and all marine animals, which in the long run serves the greater good.

I also ask everyone to look at the information being put out there from the animal rights groups and really evaluate the scientific validity of what they say. So much of what they describe about the treatment of SeaWorld's animals is humans ascribing human emotions and feelings to animals that are not human. All their arguments about things like separating mothers and their offspring could easily be applied to cats and dogs, but no one gets upset about giving away puppies and kittens. They make arguments for sea pens for keeping these whales in larger more natural settings, but they don't have a solution for keeping those sea pens free from pollution, and want to charge people to come see the whales in those sea pens (just like they vilify SeaWorld for doing).

SeaWorld is a business, not a charity. They make money with those whales and the other animals in their care, but also provide education, chances to do research and help to wild life in return. Just like PETA and these other groups are businesses as well, and they are raking in money "fighting for animal rights", but their own track record for actually helping animals is shameful.

 

[matt78]

Zoo and aquariums like SeaWorld have very important roles in this world. With destruction of habitat and entire species they serve to help preserve these animals when the "wild" is disappearing more and more every day. They also provide education and create empathy and interest in these animals that would never happen otherwise, inspiring people to care and do something to try and help the plight of all animals. SeaWorld is a victim of their own success. They made people care about killer whales so much that they now have to justify their keeping them. I don't want to see any animal suffer, and while I do believe keeping these animals in captivity is not ideal, they are well taken care of and kept as well as possible and they serve as valuable ambassadors of their species and all marine animals, which in the long run serves the greater good.

I also ask everyone to look at the information being put out there from the animal rights groups and really evaluate the scientific validity of what they say. So much of what they describe about the treatment of SeaWorld's animals is humans ascribing human emotions and feelings to animals that are not human. All their arguments about things like separating mothers and their offspring could easily be applied to cats and dogs, but no one gets upset about giving away puppies and kittens. They make arguments for sea pens for keeping these whales in larger more natural settings, but they don't have a solution for keeping those sea pens free from pollution, and want to charge people to come see the whales in those sea pens (just like they vilify SeaWorld for doing).

SeaWorld is a business, not a charity. They make money with those whales and the other animals in their care, but also provide education, chances to do research and help to wild life in return. Just like PETA and these other groups are businesses as well, and they are raking in money "fighting for animal rights", but their own track record for actually helping animals is shameful.

I agree. At least SeaWorld uses some of the money they make from the parks to fund their animal research and rescues. I don't think people give them enough credit for that. I wonder what the people who donate to PETA would think if they knew how many animals got slaughtered with the money that they donated to help protect animal rights.