I post on a BGW forum and people with "connections" have told me its likely
take that as you will
Busch Parks to be sold?
- Thread starter Smitty
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I post on a BGW forum and people with "connections" have told me its likely
take that as you will
- Oct 14, 2012
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The area around BGT and USF campus actually are not bad--not vacation worthy, maybe, but definitely not the hood. It's when you cross that bridge that things start to get a bit scary, but that's a good ways away from the park proper.
BGT is a fantastic park. Certainly not Disney/Universal but for what it strives for it achieves. I have a great time every visit, even when its raining all day. for the love of all that is holy dont get rid of this park!
- Mar 18, 2009
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In the industrial park around BG is actually kinda isolated. The random apt complex behind the train depot would have made a great location for a hotel. Even now I think a nice hotel on the Serengeti plain with a train running by it is possible. If they push that for more of a touristy area some of the sketchiness would be pushed away.
This. I'm seriously not buying the doom and gloom mentality everyone's having towards the Busch parks. Never been to Williamsburg, but Tampa is an excellent park. And it's no secret SeaWorld is my favorite park. A few financial issues and everyone wants to throw in the towel. I seriously doubt they're being sold. And even if they are, I don't see any Busch park closing up shop.
- Nov 24, 2012
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I think that the Busch parks have been mismanaged for a very long time. BGT is a mess compared to BGW. Seaworld continues to throw money at disappointing attractions. (Antarctica, I'm looking at you.) The parks are generally pretty trashy down here, while BGW is beautiful, but neglected nowadays.
I'm mixed about Universal buying Sea World because Comcast would want to dump loads of money into the parks and that'd take away from the good parks. I'd be much more interested in Cedar considering the purchase to expand their market.
I just think that Comcast has a lot more planned for a third gate and waterpark than the Busch Parks could ever offer. But if they wanted to sell UO Manta to finance something dumb I wouldn't be opposed.
I'm mixed about Universal buying Sea World because Comcast would want to dump loads of money into the parks and that'd take away from the good parks. I'd be much more interested in Cedar considering the purchase to expand their market.
I just think that Comcast has a lot more planned for a third gate and waterpark than the Busch Parks could ever offer. But if they wanted to sell UO Manta to finance something dumb I wouldn't be opposed.
I, in no way, do not find the parks trashy. The only advantage BGW has is topography, take that away the trees and hills and it is the same as the other parks just with less animals.
I actually heard this rumor from a friend who feels it's definitely being talked about. I took to Google and came across these forums (hi, by the way!) so I guess there is some weight behind it. I do know that while they are one big company, at the park level they definitely act separate and BGT doesn't look at SWO too fondly. I see senior executives of BGT heading out to the dolphin bush and SeaWorld sign in the park and gleefully hitting them with baseball bats if a split is announced.
I don't get all the bashing of BGT either. BGT along with Universal are my favorite Florida parks. Disney is.. Disney, and SeaWorld is nice if you want to see some aquatic animals but the rides aren't a lot to write home about.
Now I'm a recent transplant to Florida, coming from a world where Six Flags rules. So that might have something to do with preferring parks with more thrill to them.
But on the flip side - if you think BGT or BGW are trashy you obviously haven't been to a Six Flags park lately. Take a visit and then you will be rushing back to your local Busch Gardens park to give it a hug. People joking about "Six Flags Tampa!" are not doing it in an endearing way
Oh, as for the area - from someone on the outside looking in (just heading to that part of Tampa for the park) - Busch Blvd and below seem sketchy, but Fowler and north don't seem too bad.
I also wouldn't say the park is landlocked for expansion. It's no gem of urban design but there are things that could be done, with enough money. I dont know how much into the safari people would be happy with expansion but, well, let's play "If I ran the park!"
Personally the worst thing about BGT to me is the tram. And preferred parking. I'd rather do normal parking and take the tram than preferred. So, when Montu's time is up I say move the park entrance to where Montu is along McKinley. Rip up the handicap/preferred/current entrance and expand into it. That's a good chunk of land. Hide Busch Blvd from sight. Then take the current parking lot and overflow along Busch Blvd (just up to the first tram stop) and put in a parking garage - 3 stories would give more parking than the park currently has I think. Make a ramp over/under McKinley to the new entrance.
Now you have a nice chunk of parking lot between the garage/park entrance and Adventure Island. You can put a hotel there, turn the rest into a mini Citywalk that connects right into Adventure Island with a bridge over Linebaugh.
I have plenty more ideas but I think I've ranted enough today for a forum newbie!
I don't get all the bashing of BGT either. BGT along with Universal are my favorite Florida parks. Disney is.. Disney, and SeaWorld is nice if you want to see some aquatic animals but the rides aren't a lot to write home about.
Now I'm a recent transplant to Florida, coming from a world where Six Flags rules. So that might have something to do with preferring parks with more thrill to them.
But on the flip side - if you think BGT or BGW are trashy you obviously haven't been to a Six Flags park lately. Take a visit and then you will be rushing back to your local Busch Gardens park to give it a hug. People joking about "Six Flags Tampa!" are not doing it in an endearing way
Oh, as for the area - from someone on the outside looking in (just heading to that part of Tampa for the park) - Busch Blvd and below seem sketchy, but Fowler and north don't seem too bad.
I also wouldn't say the park is landlocked for expansion. It's no gem of urban design but there are things that could be done, with enough money. I dont know how much into the safari people would be happy with expansion but, well, let's play "If I ran the park!"
Personally the worst thing about BGT to me is the tram. And preferred parking. I'd rather do normal parking and take the tram than preferred. So, when Montu's time is up I say move the park entrance to where Montu is along McKinley. Rip up the handicap/preferred/current entrance and expand into it. That's a good chunk of land. Hide Busch Blvd from sight. Then take the current parking lot and overflow along Busch Blvd (just up to the first tram stop) and put in a parking garage - 3 stories would give more parking than the park currently has I think. Make a ramp over/under McKinley to the new entrance.
Now you have a nice chunk of parking lot between the garage/park entrance and Adventure Island. You can put a hotel there, turn the rest into a mini Citywalk that connects right into Adventure Island with a bridge over Linebaugh.
I have plenty more ideas but I think I've ranted enough today for a forum newbie!
- Mar 18, 2009
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Welcome! Pretty good insight and I agree with a lot of what you say. The tram is a lot better than it was before the tunnel was built though. I do feel like there are things that I see that could be better and I hope that blackstone isn't killing the product in the meanwhile. I don't know if you check any other websites but Marvel to WDW is a bit of a tired topic on the web so don't mention it here. Check out sector 7 in the member section, HTF is great!
- Nov 24, 2012
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I think the parks need to be split up and managed differently. They also need money. Their real hopes should be Comcast or Cedar Fair. Its not just about money, they need someone to tell them how to use it.
No way would I want to see Cedar Fair run BGT. Look what happened to Seaworld/Geauga Lakes the last time that happened. They don't have a clue how to run animal parks.
Cedar Fair only ran the park for its last 3 years of existence. By that point, Six Flags had already sold it off because they had failed at the whole "Mega-Park" thing, combining Six Flags Ohio and Sea World Ohio. Cedar Fair just couldn't change that and it at least still operates as a Water Park today (tbh, running a single park that was originally two separate parks probably wasn't economically feasible, especially when one side is a wild life side).
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While I don't see any change in the animal category yet, this situation was during the days of Kinzel. Now that Ouimet is in charge, that could change (I think it would).
Well, as long as they don't replace Edge of Africa with Dinosaurs Alive! :rant:
Cedar Fair had no interest in running a park with animals, not that they don't know how to, they just don't want to. It's why the animal shows at Cedar Point were phased out long before they bought Six Flags Ohio. Now, if they were to pick up BGT...there might be a different attitude towards it, as it has always been an animal park, and they may see that it wouldn't survive on its own as a "regular" rides park.
Of course things like this do not help the image of the area around BGT. This happened literally down the block.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/22811817/2013/07/11/unknown-device-explodes-inside-tampa-bar
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/22811817/2013/07/11/unknown-device-explodes-inside-tampa-bar
Geauga Lake's fate rested on several factors: the fact that Cedar Fair (understandably) removed all the animals--and were so blindsided by the extreme drop in attendance afterward that "Coaster-Building Kinzel" actually said publicly it was a major mistake; and also by the fact that Kinzel wanted GL out of the competition ring for Cedar Point, as well as the fact that CF had just made a pricey purchase to the tune of $1.25 billion to purchase the 5 Paramount parks. GL was hemorrhaging money and it was something the company couldn't handle financially due to some heavy outstanding debt with high interest rates and looming payment deadlines. By closing GL (rest in peace), they were able to stop the money shortfall, move a bunch of the rides to other parks and give those parks "new" attractions for FAR less than building new ones, and were able to make some money by reducing operating costs and selling off the excess equipment they didn't need. They will STILL make some money some day when they decide to sell off the land (unless they have already). I can assure you that the GM of the park, the management of the park, and even those who worked in the Cedar Fair office did NOT want to close GL necessarily, but business is business and Cedar Fair had shareholders to pay (or at least try to pay) and they had to stay afloat however they could. Sadly, GL was sacrificed for the greater good of the company. I still think to this day they could have kept GL alive and running and done some other things to float the company in the meantime, but that's water under the bridge now. There's also a reason why CF decided to build the water park--Geauga Lake's Wildwater Kingdom--instead of a major new roller coaster, too. The water park could be spun off to run independently if the gamble failed (and they bet pretty heavily on it, from what the GM told me)--which is exactly what they did starting in 2008 after the amusement park side closed. A new coaster, on the other hand, would have had to be dismantled and moved to another location. It was a pretty shrewd move on their part and I wouldn't be surprised if shutting down GL wasn't part of the plan all along. It's always been vehemently denied, but one has to wonder...
I certainly hope the Busch parks aren't sold. I wasn't too thrilled about Blackstone buying them, and I was REALLY upset/concerned about them when August Busch IV announced he was selling the company to InBev and watching Carlos Brito (one-time if not still current InBev CEO) promptly announce he wanted to sell the parks and refused to spend ANY money on the parks whatsoever. I also remember hearing and reading the rumor that Universal was allegedly "interested" in buying the Busch Entertainment chain at the time, though with what money I have no idea. I'd bet you a nickel's worth of silver that rumor was false. Either way, I'd be ALL FOR Universal buying up the whole chain. They could keep BGT running as more of a local theme park and spruce it up a bit, while bringing in Seaworld Orlando as a 3rd gate with Aquatica as a second water park. BAM: market expansion, and take that Disney! I'm also just dreaming, too.
Seeing Cedar Fair take over the Busch parks would be tragic to my eyes, as they would largely do to them what they did to the Paramount parks: strip them of all their theming and charm, build new roller coasters anywhere they saw fit (hey look, a big SAFARI PLAIN to build coasters on!), and they'd pitch all the animals first thing. Sure, it would be good in the sense that the parks would survive intact and be made profitable, plus we'd see fairly steady investment in them in the form of major new rides/coasters, but it would come at the devastating cost of their soul and what makes them unique THEME parks. It would be a crime to have them destroy something so wonderful. Or would Matt Ouimet take care of them and treat them for what they are? Personally, I don't think CF is big/strong/stable enough to take on 2 more parks at this time. They've only been fairly financially stable after their debt restructuring (and ditching of former shareholder Q Investments) for what, 3 years?
Hope I don't come across like I think I'm some industry expert (I'm not), I just read a lot about the industry. I'm also a Cedar Fair shareholder.
I certainly hope the Busch parks aren't sold. I wasn't too thrilled about Blackstone buying them, and I was REALLY upset/concerned about them when August Busch IV announced he was selling the company to InBev and watching Carlos Brito (one-time if not still current InBev CEO) promptly announce he wanted to sell the parks and refused to spend ANY money on the parks whatsoever. I also remember hearing and reading the rumor that Universal was allegedly "interested" in buying the Busch Entertainment chain at the time, though with what money I have no idea. I'd bet you a nickel's worth of silver that rumor was false. Either way, I'd be ALL FOR Universal buying up the whole chain. They could keep BGT running as more of a local theme park and spruce it up a bit, while bringing in Seaworld Orlando as a 3rd gate with Aquatica as a second water park. BAM: market expansion, and take that Disney! I'm also just dreaming, too.
Seeing Cedar Fair take over the Busch parks would be tragic to my eyes, as they would largely do to them what they did to the Paramount parks: strip them of all their theming and charm, build new roller coasters anywhere they saw fit (hey look, a big SAFARI PLAIN to build coasters on!), and they'd pitch all the animals first thing. Sure, it would be good in the sense that the parks would survive intact and be made profitable, plus we'd see fairly steady investment in them in the form of major new rides/coasters, but it would come at the devastating cost of their soul and what makes them unique THEME parks. It would be a crime to have them destroy something so wonderful. Or would Matt Ouimet take care of them and treat them for what they are? Personally, I don't think CF is big/strong/stable enough to take on 2 more parks at this time. They've only been fairly financially stable after their debt restructuring (and ditching of former shareholder Q Investments) for what, 3 years?
Hope I don't come across like I think I'm some industry expert (I'm not), I just read a lot about the industry. I'm also a Cedar Fair shareholder.
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You could always have a new player in the US market. Village Roadshow could be a possibility, although not likely. They run most of the theme parks out here, Warner Bros Movie World, Sea World (not to be confused with your seaworld) and they are the major company behind the Wet 'n' Wild brand (not to be confused with Universals which is completely unrelated). By heart they are a film studio that works with WB, but their parks are real accomplishments. Warner Bros Movie World has a major space issue, so they have started to become quite skilled in trying to fit things into reasonably cramped space. They then have Sea World, here they have experience in looking after wildlife. Also the part has a height restrictions and has been working around these for years. They have been slowly expanding their products around the world. With current parks Wet 'n' Wild Phoneix, Wet 'n' Wild Hawaii, Wet 'n' Wild Las Vegas, as well as a new Wet 'n' Wild in China and a new sea world based park to open there as well. They have also show interest in opening a Safari park, with a proposal a couple of years ago to build on just outside Melbourne. As well as already owning a native animal park. They have plenty of experience in the area, and would most likely look in to buying one of the parks. Also add that they have a small relationship with Merlin/Blackstone who brought a bunch of attractions off them a couple of years ago.
If Village Roadshow was (or is) strong enough to run the parks the way they were designed/meant to be, I would/will be all for it. ESPECIALLY if they were to take care of the animals and make a seamless transition! Do they have the scratch to make the purchase though? They don't seem like they spend a real lot of money on their parks. Major new attractions seem to be pretty rare, just based on what I've seen out of Warner Bros Movie World and Sea World Australia.
