Confederate Flag Removed from American Adventure

[UNIrd]

Agreed, but in an attraction that deals with history....that's history.

So is the Nazi symbol, buddy. But if it's offensive, it's offensive.

 

[Brian G.]

So is the Nazi symbol, buddy. But if it's offensive, it's offensive.

But if we're talking about history, I know they're not waving that flag in support of it. They're showing artifacts of a time in turmoil.

And this coming from someone whose grandmother was in the Holocaust....

 

[ReelJustice]

There are so many other things going on in the world to get upset about. It's amazing how many people get caught up in this stuff.

It is because it is an easy (but ultimately empty) gesture that makes people feel like they are actually solving real problems.

 

[UNIrd]

But if we're talking about history, I know they're not waving that flag in support of it. They're showing artifacts of a time in turmoil.

And this coming from someone whose grandmother was in the Holocaust....

Understood but the conversation taking place today about the flag as a symbol for race relations today is coming from a different place. And it makes some people uncomfortable. That's all.

I'm super anti-PC but I think Disney did the right thing in this case.

 

[Brian G.]

Understood but the conversation taking place today about the flag as a symbol for race relations today is coming from a different place. And it makes some people uncomfortable. That's all.

I'm super anti-PC but I think Disney did the right thing in this case.

I completely get why they did it, but as I stated before, I feel it was a knee-jerk reaction based on the recent outburst. Like eBay and Amazon...

"OH were going to take down all Rebel Flag merch.... but you still can buy all goods from the SS".

 

[Ultranel]

Well if you think about it, many people that swear to care for this flag really don't. For many this flag is just a tool used to create dispute with people that feel the flag it's a symbol of segregation. Perhaps this is why the flag is usually used next to a swastika. The curious part to all this is when those anti-flag people defend themselves from those attacks, the flag's defenders change gears and play the victim card. Offended due to attacks to their heritage and history. I am sorry but let's do some math here, if the country was founded on 1776 and this flag's lifespan was 1861-1865, which it's exactly the same years as the Civil War duration, then this flag was made as a separatist movement againt the republic/union. I don't call that history, more like a defiance to the land and the way of living we call home today.

 

[Brian G.]

Well if you think about it, many people that swear to care for this flag really don't. For many this flag is just a tool used to create dispute with people that feel the flag it's a symbol of segregation. Perhaps this is why the flag is usually used next to a swastika. The curious part to all this is when those anti-flag people defend themselves from those attacks, the flag's defenders change gears and play the victim card. Offended due to attacks to their heritage and history. I am sorry but let's do some math here, if the country was founded on 1776 and this flag's lifespan was 1861-1865, which it's exactly the same years as the Civil War duration, then this flag was made as a separatist movement againt the republic/union. I don't call that history, more like a defiance to the land and the way of living we call home today.

Wait, are you saying it's not history because it was only a thing for 4 years?

 

[MrRoamer]

It was history though. It was something that really happened and it really changed the face of the country. Without the civil war, slavery may have never been challenged, women may have never won the right for suffrage, Lincoln would have not been assassinated (maybe not even considered as one of our great presidents), and Grant would have likely not been elected. Most importantly 620,000 Americans would not have died in a war.

Even if people use the flag to hide behind now to defend their own agendas, that doesn't change the fact that the USA would probably be a very different place today had it not happened. Also, wasn't the Revolutionary War a separatist movement?

 

[Brian G.]

It was history though. It was something that really happened and it really changed the face of the country. Without the civil war, slavery may have never been challenged, women may have never won the right for suffrage, Lincoln would have not been assassinated (maybe not even considered as one of our great presidents), and Grant would have likely not been elected. Most importantly 620,000 Americans would not have died in a war.

Even if people use the flag to hide behind now to defend their own agendas, that doesn't change the fact that the USA would probably be a very different place today had it not happened. Also, wasn't the Revolutionary War a separatist movement?

No taxation without representation!

 

[Ultranel]

Also, wasn't the Revolutionary War a separatist movement?

Absolutly!! Great Britain againts itself, and once it was all done, the english returned to their original home, and the new land to the west became it's own country. That's when the American citizenship was truly born. The south didn't have a place to go, it was actually consumed by the north side of the nation it belong to in the first place. I understand is part of history but I also understand there has been wars and attacks on this nation in the past that have changed our history, and we don't give credit to their symbols or flags. Not trying to get in an arguement just saying the flag has nothing to do with southern heritage, it has to do with defiance toward USA way of living. If we are going to defend true southern culture then let's support our Spanish and French roots. Then again that's not true southern culture for many.... textiles are.

 

[rhino4evr]

no offense, but I prefer the board stick to theme park talk. I think i'll stay out of this thread.

PS - Who ever decided to create "alerts"...thank you, you now make my work day even less productive. It;s like crack

 

[tielo]

no offense, but I prefer the board stick to theme park talk. I think i'll stay out of this thread.

PS - Who ever decided to create "alerts"...thank you, you now make my work day even less productive. It;s like crack

Clearly it's the most exiting thing that happened to Epcot lately.
Disney is realy taking note to the Let It Go song because a lot of stuff is leaving the parks without replacement.

 

[graspthesun]

Is American Adventure an exhibit on American history as a whole or Florida history. If it's the former, you could make the argument that the Confederacy was never a legitimately recognized nation, so no flag. If it's Florida history, then it should fly. It was the official flag over Florida according to the Confederacy.

 

[Brian G.]

Is American Adventure an exhibit on American history as a whole or Florida history. If it's the former, you could make the argument that the Confederacy was never a legitimately recognized nation, so no flag. If it's Florida history, then it should fly. It was the official flag over Florida according to the Confederacy.

No. The Hall of Banners was a place where every single recognized flag that ever flew over the United States was flown. This includes U.K., France as well.

 

[darkridelover]

I think this discussion goes nowhere! What's done is done.

 

[Nick]

So is the Nazi symbol, buddy. But if it's offensive, it's offensive.

Take nazis out of The Sound of Music and it's incomplete. As a matter of fact, the movie would not only not make sense, but also be historically inaccurate (since it's based on a real family). This is a musical that NBC broadcast live with Nazi flags flying during the musical just a year and a half ago.

There's a difference between hate and history. The history may have hate behind it, but it's still part of history and in a museum setting, it's not hurting anyone.

 

[Friar Tuck & Roll]

This is not the first time that Disney has given in to PC pressure. Just like the Sound of Music nazis were also a big part of the Indiana Jones franchise. On the plane that is used in the finale of the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectatular there was the swastika. Disney changed it to just a German cross. (The swastika can be seen in older specials like the Muppets go to Walt Disney World). That being said I believe that Disney should have left the flag in the American Adventure as the entire theme of the attraction is to present a balanced picture of America, highlighting both the good, such as the western expansion and the establishment of national parks, and the bad, like the near elimination of the native populace and the great depression. And as the old saying goes those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[violarum]

I'll weigh in a bit.

I am not African-American, and I'm not sure how many of you are, but all of us who are not probably shouldn't speak for them, and rather relay the message that multiple Black people have stated instead of opining.

However, I should say that it hurts me personally to see it flown because of the way I've seen Black friends of mine being treated by the White people that fly and wear this flag like it's a banner of pride. And growing up around both Black and White Southern kids and their families, I always knew that true Southern pride involves accepting people with love, good hearty soul food, twangs and "y'all"s, and the general acceptance that developed Southern people do not believe in racism or slavery or the Confederacy as being factors that define their character or stand as symbols for them.

The same cannot be said for people who enforce the twisted ideals of racism (which has manifested itself into a systemically disadvantageous way of life for people of color), who claim that we're equals but use the n-word as though it carries no implications or offense for the black folks that hear it. These are the people that fly the flag, usually. And these people scare me, their morals are the ones that some of our governmental systems have upheld with the guise of claiming "Southern pride", even though nothing of the sort is truly the case.

Historically, the flag has been used as a symbol for the Confederacy which fought for an economic system that stole native peoples from their lands, tortured and raped them, and used their hard work and backs as the foundation for this country. This includes much of the entertainment all of us enjoy both here and around the world. This flag has been used as a symbol by the KKK for hate crimes that directly targeted these humans, and many people like to conveniently forget that. This flag is an offense to see, and it has no place flying in front of governmental buildings.

When it comes to EPCOT, it's becoming generally accepted now that the flag and the history of slavery and subsequent hate-crimes should be showcased within a display, alongside words that respectfully describe the reasons why the economic model of slavery was adopted, as well as why the nation agreed after much strife that this was not an ethical model to support. It has a place alongside an apology, as does the showcasing of the erasure and forced assimilation of native peoples. But it should not be presented in the hall. As Friar stated, the experience is meant to showcase the good and the bad which I agree with, but to display such a tainted symbol alongside others is simply immoral.

 

[Clive]

I'll weigh in a bit.

I am not African-American, and I'm not sure how many of you are, but all of us who are not probably shouldn't speak for them, and rather relay the message that multiple Black people have stated instead of opining.

However, I should say that it hurts me personally to see it flown because of the way I've seen Black friends of mine being treated by the White people that fly and wear this flag like it's a banner of pride. And growing up around both Black and White Southern kids and their families, I always knew that true Southern pride involves accepting people with love, good hearty soul food, twangs and "y'all"s, and the general acceptance that developed Southern people do not believe in racism or slavery or the Confederacy as being factors that define their character or stand as symbols for them.

The same cannot be said for people who enforce the twisted ideals of racism (which has manifested itself into a systemically disadvantageous way of life for people of color), who claim that we're equals but use the n-word as though it carries no implications or offense for the black folks that hear it. These are the people that fly the flag, usually. And these people scare me, their morals are the ones that some of our governmental systems have upheld with the guise of claiming "Southern pride", even though nothing of the sort is truly the case.

Historically, the flag has been used as a symbol for the Confederacy which fought for an economic system that stole native peoples from their lands, tortured and raped them, and used their hard work and backs as the foundation for this country. This includes much of the entertainment all of us enjoy both here and around the world. This flag has been used as a symbol by the KKK for hate crimes that directly targeted these humans, and many people like to conveniently forget that. This flag is an offense to see, and it has no place flying in front of governmental buildings.

When it comes to EPCOT, it's becoming generally accepted now that the flag and the history of slavery and subsequent hate-crimes should be showcased within a display, alongside words that respectfully describe the reasons why the economic model of slavery was adopted, as well as why the nation agreed after much strife that this was not an ethical model to support. It has a place alongside an apology, as does the showcasing of the erasure and forced assimilation of native peoples. But it should not be presented in the hall. As Friar stated, the experience is meant to showcase the good and the bad which I agree with, but to display such a tainted symbol alongside others is simply immoral.

I was with you for all of this until you stated the flag shouldn't be in the hall because it's "tainted." It is tainted, but removing it from a historical display that presents all of the flags flown over the USA - the good, bad and ugly - is arguably just as "immoral." We can't just pretend the flag didn't exist. Do I think the language accompanying needs to reflect the flag's status as a symbol of hatred? Yes, because that's part of its history. But to not display it at all borders on censoring.

 

[Nick]

I was with you for all of this until you stated the flag shouldn't be in the hall because it's "tainted." It is tainted, but removing it from a historical display that presents all of the flags flown over the USA - the good, bad and ugly - is arguably just as "immoral." We can't just pretend the flag didn't exist. Do I think the language accompanying needs to reflect the flag's status as a symbol of hatred? Yes, because that's part of its history. But to not display it at all borders on censoring.

Agreed in full. It's not like they were flying the flag at the top of the American Pavilion, to be seen by all who walk around World Showcase and being Pro-Confederacy. The flag was in a museum setting and any good museum will show, the good, bad and the ugly -- basically what led us to where we are today.

We can't just show what we want to show in a historical showcase, there's always going to be a mixture of good/bad/ugly in a country's history and if the bad/ugly are large parts of the history, you can't just wipe it out like it didn't happen. Just as the swastika/nazi flag represent the hate of the holocaust, the Confederate (Battle) Flag is the same type of symbol for their time in history.