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Gorilla Exhibit

Discussion in 'Disney's Animal Kingdom' started by Teebin, May 29, 2016.

  1. Stitch_101

    Stitch_101 Member

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    Well, you could also look at it from this point of view... Almost all zoos, or other entertainment complexes like theme parks, have an age limit for admittance without a parent or guardian. Part of that is due to safety concerns. No one anywhere can be 100% ready for something that can go wrong, zoos and theme parks alike. They rely on their own internal safety measures, but likewise they require some measure of supervision on the part of parents who bring young children in. Take for example this: What would the response be if an incident happened at Universal or Disney where an excited child ran out in front of a moving float during a parade and got injured because they wanted to see their favorite character? Would it be the theme parks fault for not having sufficient barriers between the spectators and the parade? Or would it be the fault of the parents who were not properly supervising their child and preventing it from occurring to begin with? There are so many layers to this debate that some people don't realize.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  2. IzzyB

    IzzyB Premium Member

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    At first I thought this was the parents fault, but the more I read about this the more I realize more blame lies on the zoo than the parent. First off anyone who has been a parent realizes that kids can bolt VERY quickly when they see something cool. When you are in crowds it is even worse. Yes, you keep an eye on them, but things happen and sometimes you lose track of them for a split second. You are more careful around parking lots and streets because of cars, but in a Zoo, Disney, Universal, etc. you know there is no car running them over so you are not holding their hand 24/7. The only way to keep a kid from bolting out of sight is holding their hand, putting them in a stroller, or putting a leash on them. Otherwise, you are going to have situations where the child is out of sight for a second or two. Enclosures should be able to withstand a bolted child until the parent finds them. This enclosure was a JOKE and any child could get thru that within seconds. Now if this was a 4 feet high fence, I would feel differently, but it was not. It was not secure enough from bolting children and it should have been.

    I have been at a parade with a bolting child, number one the parent sees it because it is in front of their face, and #2 security workers coming running out to stop the child. There is a million and one safety protocols put in place for this specific thing including the driver being able to see the kid. Those protocols are put in place because Universal and Disney KNOW kids will do this. In the case of the zoo they did not put enough safety protocols in place.
     
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  3. s8film40

    s8film40 Veteran Member

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    I'm a big believer in you as a parent have to look out for your child's safety yourself and never assume that a business is doing it for you. In this case of the zoo the ability of a child to enter an exhibit at all no matter how hard they try is 100% pure negligence. Now even so if a child is killed in the scenario then placing blame does no good at all. You should never assume that someone else is looking out for your safety.

    In the scenario you describe, all parade floats have emergency stop buttons all over them and they are often surrounded by staff and performers who can stop them at a moments notice. That doesn't mean I'm not going to watch my child around a parade but at the same time the park has an obligation to take some precautions to add another layer of safety.
     
  4. Stitch_101

    Stitch_101 Member

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    Oh I understand there are contingencies. That wasn't my point. My point was not all safety measure work all the time. All it takes is one incident to change everything. Look at this zoo incident. The enclosure had been there, in this same state, for how long? With no incidences. Until now. In this case all it took was the perfect combination of negligence on the part of the zoo and a parent who wasn't properly supervising there kid (and I understand what you mean about kids bolting off Izzy as I'll explain below, however from most accounts here the mother wasn't even paying attention to the child when the incident occurred, so there is a difference) for a fatal flaw in the enclosures design to become glaringly apparent. As sad as it is, these things do happen... at zoos, theme parks, water parks, ect. No incident that happens is ever not avoidable, and often they occur from issues that previously where not considered issues.

    As far as young children are concerned, I know how difficult they can be to keep track of in places like this. They get excited, and when dealing with multiple, often have different ideas of where to go and what to do next. I'm not a father, but I am the 'favorite' uncle to my 4 nieces ages 5 to 10. I buy them all season passes to our local waterpark every year and take them through out the summer while my sister works. Call me overly cautious, but I have a rule that none of them go father then double arms reach from me at all times. They break that rule, and we all go home.
     
  5. IzzyB

    IzzyB Premium Member

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    I don't expect a business to prevent accidents 100% of the time. I totally think the Pittsburgh zoo issue that Mad Dog talks about was 100% the parents fault and not the zoo's fault. But businesses like this need to have some sort of protection put in place knowing children do what they do. a 4 foot high fence is enough protection. At that point if the child gets away from the parent long enough to climb and go over, that is on the parent. But this fence was a 2 second thing. That is not enough protection. As for her not paying attention. I have heard multiple accounts and one says that before the child got thru the fence the mother was calling out for her child. I mean all she had to do to let her child be out of vision long enough to get away is to grab one of her other kids and say something to them, answer a question they had, etc. It is so easy, especially with 4 kids to watch.

    We also have rules in place for our kids, but things still happen. For all we know she had a rule in place too.
     
  6. s8film40

    s8film40 Veteran Member

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    I think in the case of this zoo it's a wonder something didn't happen sooner. I think it's probably one of those type of places where most people generally don't feel that the zoo has taken appropriate precautions and is a little more on guard. To me from what I've seen of this scenario it was 5%-10% the parents fault and 90%-95% the zoos fault in my opinion. When you go to a zoo you shouldn't have to expect to hold onto your kids so they don't get into the gorilla exhibit, that aspect is completely inexcusable.
     
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  7. MillenniumDragons

    MillenniumDragons Rookie

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    Somewhere on this thread it said this particular exhibit has been at the zoo since the 70's. So the fact that it's never happened in 4+ decades is truly surprising. The child apparently said he was wanted to "jump in the water" to his mom and his mom repeatedly said no. Maybe the kid doesn't take orders? That is completely subjective.
     
  8. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    This is an interesting convo to see take place on a theme park forum...

    I don't think you realize how close you are to serious injury if you disobey the rules at any park.

    I don't see why a park needs to have a physical structure to keep people from climbing over and into a gorilla enclosure. You'd be aghast at most destinations in Europe where such things are unheard of and seen as silly overprotective nonsense.

    Spaceship Earth doesn't have restraints. Getting out of the vehicle while the ride is in motion is extremely dangerous. This was proven by a child who did so and pretty much had his foot amputated. They didn't build cages around the vehicles at Spaceship Earth to keep people in.

    If your child climbs into an animal enclosure - short of walking through an open door - sorry, they just won a Darwin Award and it's no ones fault but their own.
     
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  9. Teebin

    Teebin Legendary Member

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    I'll bet you that Disney has taken another peek at their gorilla enclosure etc. I believe they are pretty much safe but it is the edges and corners that might see a bit of plugging if necessary.

    Go back to the Cinci fence video and look at the far right of where the wooden fence ends. It appears to be a wide opening to the cliffs. That's the kind of gap I am worried about at AK.
     
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  10. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    If your child is so wildly out of control that they can't be trusted to not make basic judgements that prevent them from falling into a deep pit or take any direction you shouldn't take them out - for their own safety.

    If this was the Grand Canyon the kid would be dead.
     
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  11. s8film40

    s8film40 Veteran Member

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    Yeah, I agree I think much of the public has an impression that there are things to stop people from being able to get into something dangerous with so very little effort though. The zoo also has a responsibility to protect the animals and in this situation they failed miserably.
     
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  12. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    Well, the public is wrong and misinformed. How is that different than most other situations?

    You cant cater to the lowest common denominator.
     
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  13. s8film40

    s8film40 Veteran Member

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    I agree with this concept in general but I think this situation is a little different. You should be able to take your kids to the zoo without the fear that in 1-2 seconds they could be in a gorilla enclosure. If I took my kid to an unprotected part of the grand canyon you can bet he wouldn't be free from my grip for a moment. Are you suggesting this is how a zoo should be also?
     
  14. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    I think thousands of not millions of other children have been past that gorilla enclosure without incident.
     
  15. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    If the child had been killed and the gorilla not yet shot - would you be calling for the gorilla to be put down?

    Cuz Tilly is still swimming around...
     
  16. IzzyB

    IzzyB Premium Member

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    Agreed. My kids are in situations that are dangerous, like crossing a road, or close to a place that has a drop off. But in those situations they don't leave my hand. When my kids are in the ocean I have their hand or I am holding on to them. As a parent you know it is dangerous and you do the things to protect your kid.

    They know to hold on to my hand and there is no ifs ands or buts about it. But in a zoo or a park, I don't hold on to there hand. They are able to walk up to the glass at Sea World if they want to. You need to be able to give your kids some freedom and not be a helicopter parent. They are in my eye sight at all times. But I am also realistic in knowing that she could bolt off if I am not careful, but I also know things can happen.

    I had European neighbors and the things they let their kids do by themselves made me cringe. Their daughter still in diapers would run out of the house toward the street all the time. I was so used to hearing her mom scream her name ALL THE TIME because she was getting away. So kids getting away from parents is not a US thing.

    And who in the world would ask for the gorilla to be put down if it was still alive? What does that even have to do with anything?!? No one is even blaming the Gorilla.
     
  17. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    Really? Cuz that Gorilla is dead based on the assumption the child was going to be critically injured. So now the gorilla is dead and the child is not all that injured.
     
  18. Teebin

    Teebin Legendary Member

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    No, they must cater to all or go out of business. I would judge that 20-30% of visitors have no common sense at all and children that are poorly minded. Disney and Uni caters to them as well, with big ole smiles on.
     
  19. epcyclopedia

    epcyclopedia BANNED

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    No they don't. If you climb out of nearly any ride vehicle without a restraint you're very much in danger of being killed. And it's not theoretical - it has happened.
     
  20. IzzyB

    IzzyB Premium Member

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    I don't understand how this and the Sea World comment have anything to do with the conversation we are having. We are debating whether the parent or zoo is more at fault.

    My take is it is about 70/30 with the zoo more at fault. They failed to protect the children or the animals with the poor fencing choice.
     

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