Halloween Horror Nights '19 General Discussion

[Tobias]

Had the lineup been leaked, we would've been at around 130 pages already.

Actually, it would be quite the opposite. A couple years ago the entire lineup was leaked all at once, and the number of posts dropped because there was nothing left to speculate about. Threads like these thrive on speculation of what's coming and whatever crazy tangents it'll drift into now and then. Take the spec away, and the thread dies.

 

[darkshadow237]

There’s also CAOS which is also Warner Bros along with Netflix. The Conjuring Maze could be like the one from Festival of Freight even if it mixed The Conjuring with Legendary Truth.

 

[Dr. Herbert West]

So there's some speculation on the Orlando board about a Creepshow maze! If its true (which I hope so), then please let it come here! Possibly my number 1 bucket list IP.

 

[Jaden]

If Creepshow is coming, maybe this is the cult classic property Chris was talking about.

 

[Wesker69]

Creepshow isn't happening for Orlando or Hollywood.... Just embrace the Universal Monsters lol

 

[rageofthegods]

Creepshow isn't happening for Orlando or Hollywood.... Just embrace the Universal Monsters lol

 

[Wesker69]

Let me break it down for Creepshow.... Stephen King = Not Happening. WB = Not Happening. Stop trying to wish & force Universal to PAY for IPs they 1- either can't have. 2- they don't already own.

Force Universal to actually have to be CREATIVE. The best thing to happen to HHN was for the Big 3 to become not available to them (among other IPs). Knotts may repeat content for several years, BUT their event has been going strong for 45+ without the reliance of IPs. Universal can & should do the same, however, they have their own IPs to use if they choose (even if the IPs suck). Wishing & hoping for NON-Universal IPs means more money for the event's budget will go to obtaining that IP. If you want a bigger budget event & less black walls, stop being an IP begging sheep.

I'd rather see original mazes "loosely based" on an IP like Orlando has done many times in the past instead of them wasting money on IPs because they're too lazy to stay relevant with something original to actually properly compete with Knotts & Dark Harbor (I'd say Fright Fest too, but they dropped the ball last year)..

 

[rageofthegods]

Let me break it down for Creepshow.... Stephen King = Not Happening. WB = Not Happening. Stop trying to wish & force Universal to PAY for IPs they 1- either can't have. 2- they don't already own.

Force Universal to actually have to be CREATIVE. The best thing to happen to HHN was for the Big 3 to become not available to them (among other IPs). Knotts may repeat content for several years, BUT their event has been going strong for 45+ without the reliance of IPs. Universal can & should do the same, however, they have their own IPs to use if they choose (even if the IPs suck). Wishing & hoping for NON-Universal IPs means more money for the event's budget will go to obtaining that IP. If you want a bigger budget event & less black walls, stop being an IP begging sheep.

I'd rather see original mazes "loosely based" on an IP like Orlando has done many times in the past instead of them wasting money on IPs because they're too lazy to stay relevant with something original to actually properly compete with Knotts & Dark Harbor (I'd say Fright Fest too, but they dropped the ball last year)..

Alright, you raise those points, and I'll raise mine.

WB not happening? Not for certain, especially now that they're under new management. Why not go for the obvious money-cow of licensing the Theme Park Rights to an obscure IP that they aren't using anytime soon?

True, licensing fees are an annoyance, but they obviously don't end the event. Also, it's suspect to say that boring theming won't be a problem in non-IP houses; I remember Clownz 3D was mostly boring-town. You mention the black wallz argument, but there are plenty of other ways to get around that problem, including reducing or freezing the maze count, allowing alcohol sales, getting rid of the Tram, etc. And those options don't limit the possibilities for the creative team like putting out a blanket ban on IPs from a movie studio. Remember, 2016 had two of the biggest WB properties out there as well as the biggest Fox property, and it was still one of the best themed years ever in history.

Also, I strongly disagree. Here's the thing about your argument wrt Knotts: There's a reason why I don't want HHN to be all originals, it's that we already have Knotts and Dark Harbor for that. Why wouldn't I want a place where IP houses are being represented with good quality special effects and theming? And also, like you said, some of the IPs that Uni has available suck. Why wouldn't fans want to see other IPs from other studios represented?

You say that you'd want to see original mazes "loosely based" on IPs, but how are those any more "original" than just getting the IP? You say you want Uni to stay relevant with something original, and that you want them to be creative, but what's the point if the originals are just gonna resemble the IPs?

Heck, I'd argue that Uni has to get more creative with IPs than with originals. With originals, you can design the whole property around rehashing old scenes. Remember Clownz 3D and the return of the sawed in half gag, the hidden actor gag, etc? But with IPs, the creative team's feet is on the fire. They have to come up with creative ways to represent iconic scenes from those movies. Those scrim effects that are still awesome to see? Didn't come from an original, it came from Nightmare on Elm Street 2010. The "Here's Johnny" scene in The Shining was probably one of the most immersive vignettes HHN has done so far. Those Telescreen scares that they overused the last year came from Sinister, the horde scare came from The Walking Dead, the list goes on. Doing IPs and being pressured to do them justice is exactly what forces creative to be creative.

EDIT: It's late, tryna be less confrontational

 

[Dr. Herbert West]

Alright, you raise those points, and I'll raise mine.

WB not happening? Not for certain, especially now that they're under new management. Why not go for the obvious money-cow of licensing the Theme Park Rights to an obscure IP that they aren't using anytime soon?

True, licensing fees are an annoyance, but they obviously don't end the event. Also, it's suspect to say that boring theming won't be a problem in non-IP houses; I remember Clownz 3D was mostly boring-town. You mention the black wallz argument, but there are plenty of other ways to get around that problem, including reducing or freezing the maze count, allowing alcohol sales, getting rid of the Tram, etc. And those options don't limit the possibilities for the creative team like putting out a blanket ban on IPs from a movie studio. Remember, 2016 had two of the biggest WB properties out there as well as the biggest Fox property, and it was still one of the best themed years ever in history.

Also, I strongly disagree. Here's the thing about your argument wrt Knotts: There's a reason why I don't want HHN to be all originals, it's that we already have Knotts and Dark Harbor for that. Why wouldn't I want a place where IP houses are being represented with good quality special effects and theming? And also, like you said, some of the IPs that Uni has available suck. Why wouldn't fans want to see other IPs from other studios represented?

You say that you'd want to see original mazes "loosely based" on IPs, but how are those any more "original" than just getting the IP? You say you want Uni to stay relevant with something original, and that you want them to be creative, but what's the point if the originals are just gonna resemble the IPs?

Heck, I'd argue that Uni has to get more creative with IPs than with originals. With originals, you can design the whole property around rehashing old scenes. Remember Clownz 3D and the return of the sawed in half gag, the hidden actor gag, etc? But with IPs, the creative team's feet is on the fire. They have to come up with creative ways to represent iconic scenes from those movies. Those scrim effects that are still awesome to see? Didn't come from an original, it came from Nightmare on Elm Street 2010. The "Here's Johnny" scene in The Shining was probably one of the most immersive vignettes HHN has done so far. Those Telescreen scares that they overused the last year came from Sinister, the horde scare came from The Walking Dead, the list goes on. Doing IPs and being pressured to do them justice is exactly what forces creative to be creative.

EDIT: It's late, tryna be less confrontational

Totally in agreement with your points here. And bravo for making a well thought out, level headed post responding to an, honestly, confrontational one.

 

[DannyPowers]

WB not happening? Not for certain, especially now that they're under new management. Why not go for the obvious money-cow of licensing the Theme Park Rights to an obscure IP that they aren't using anytime soon?

Two points here. One kind of for, and one kind of against what you said.

Let’s do against first.

I don’t think Warner makes that much off of liscencing properties to HHN in the grand sceheme of things. They released their reports from last year recently, and liscensing was flat over all without any properties going to HHN.

Think about what they get money for. T-shirts, POP! Figures, Blu-ray printings, in the grand sceheme one or two HHN houses don’t even move the needle for that department.

To the second point where I agree with you.

Warner has shown that they are willing to ease up on some rights when they’re not planning to do anything with the property.

Oddly enough, a good example is Creepshow. Scream Factory just did a fancy new printing last year, which obviously wouldn’t have happened if Warner had been planning to put out a new edition. So, release the rights, get a few bucks on the books, and use those funds to put into the marketing budget for IT Chapter Two or something.

We also had Trick R Treat last year, that is a Warner property. So, I don’t think ANY Warner movie is out of contention, just the bigger ones like IT and Conjuring, or anything they may want to use for HMH when it comes back next year.

 

[snayberry]

Let me break it down for Creepshow.... Stephen King = Not Happening. WB = Not Happening. Stop trying to wish & force Universal to PAY for IPs they 1- either can't have. 2- they don't already own.

Force Universal to actually have to be CREATIVE. The best thing to happen to HHN was for the Big 3 to become not available to them (among other IPs). Knotts may repeat content for several years, BUT their event has been going strong for 45+ without the reliance of IPs. Universal can & should do the same, however, they have their own IPs to use if they choose (even if the IPs suck). Wishing & hoping for NON-Universal IPs means more money for the event's budget will go to obtaining that IP. If you want a bigger budget event & less black walls, stop being an IP begging sheep.

I'd rather see original mazes "loosely based" on an IP like Orlando has done many times in the past instead of them wasting money on IPs because they're too lazy to stay relevant with something original to actually properly compete with Knotts & Dark Harbor (I'd say Fright Fest too, but they dropped the ball last year)..

Boy, you’ll eat your words if Creepshow really does come.

 

[DTH]

We also had Trick R Treat last year, that is a Warner property. So, I don’t think ANY Warner movie is out of contention, just the bigger ones like IT and Conjuring, or anything they may want to use for HMH when it comes back next year.

To be fair, I believe TrT is owned by Legendary, which is now under a deal with Universal. There are tricky loop arounds for stuff like that. Some things are out of WB's hands depending on the production company, the specific rights under it, licensing deals, etc.. For example, it was just stated about Stephen King properties not happening, yet we just got The Shining. Due to a loop around, SOOOOOO...?

Overall, I agree with everyone's points about Creepshow. Personally, I don't think it's happening, but the reasons why it wouldn't be were pretty flat but presented in a strong, confrontational way.

We have to remember at the end of the day, Universal will open up to cult movies but they have to have strong cult followings of MODERN generations. Their demographic is still very much aimed towards 13-30 year olds and tourists. These are the ones who will post about the event on social media, tell their friends, go in big groups, spend money on merch, etc.. Even if the property is obscure, it has to have something recognizable about it to be universally (no pun intended) identifiable.

I think one of their few oversights was Ash vs. Evil Dead, unfortunately, and that's why that maze was always completely empty. Evil Dead is pretty cult based and even recognizable, but the show is even more marginalized even among Evil Dead fans. And people who went through the maze had no idea what was going on and nothing to identify with. Something like Killer Klowns from Outer Space, however, will bring in fans and can easily be accepted by people not knowing what it is. Clowns?! Cool. Outer space?! Awesome. TrT had Sam, plus some werewolves and was good enough for photo ops on the upper lot. Even that was a dead zone.

Luckily HHN is okay and can afford to have a dead zone or two but I'm sure higher ups want every thing to be packed all the time. It needs to be commercially packaged. I don't know how popular Figure is internationally or with the kids these days, but that's why he was probably slapped onto Holidayz. Or why Slash was slapped onto the Universal Monsters of all things.

How do they package Creepshow to kids and tourists? I'm not quite sure. The most recognizable thing is the VHS box, in my opinion. I've seen the movie at least twice and can barely remember anything from it.

 

[rageofthegods]

To be fair, I believe TrT is owned by Legendary, which is now under a deal with Universal. There are tricky loop arounds for stuff like that. Some things are out of WB's hands depending on the production company, the specific rights under it, licensing deals, etc.. For example, it was just stated about Stephen King properties not happening, yet we just got The Shining. Due to a loop around, SOOOOOO...?

Overall, I agree with everyone's points about Creepshow. Personally, I don't think it's happening, but the reasons why it wouldn't be were pretty flat but presented in a strong, confrontational way.

We have to remember at the end of the day, Universal will open up to cult movies but they have to have strong cult followings of MODERN generations. Their demographic is still very much aimed towards 13-30 year olds and tourists. These are the ones who will post about the event on social media, tell their friends, go in big groups, spend money on merch, etc.. Even if the property is obscure, it has to have something recognizable about it to be universally (no pun intended) identifiable. Not to mention the 80s are still kinda big right now, so Creepshow would make sense for that sweet sweet Gen-X nostalgia.

I think one of their few oversights was Ash vs. Evil Dead, unfortunately, and that's why that maze was always completely empty. Evil Dead is pretty cult based and even recognizable, but the show is even more marginalized even among Evil Dead fans. And people who went through the maze had no idea what was going on and nothing to identify with. Something like Killer Klowns from Outer Space, however, will bring in fans and can easily be accepted by people not knowing what it is. Clowns?! Cool. Outer space?! Awesome. TrT had Sam, plus some werewolves and was good enough for photo ops on the upper lot. Even that was a dead zone.

Luckily HHN is okay and can afford to have a dead zone or two but I'm sure higher ups want every thing to be packed all the time. It needs to be commercially packaged. I don't know how popular Figure is internationally or with the kids these days, but that's why he was probably slapped onto Holidayz. Or why Slash was slapped onto the Universal Monsters of all things.

How do they package Creepshow to kids and tourists? I'm not quite sure. The most recognizable thing is the VHS box, in my opinion. I've seen the movie at least twice and can barely remember anything from it.

I'll admit, I see your point about needing to be broadly appealing, but I think there's enough to push Creepshow up to the top. The OG movie was actually a box office smash, maybe not on the level of Friday the 13th or Halloween, but it actually made just a little less than the first Nightmare on Elm Street movie. The Stephen King name draws people in, and I think zombies and evil plants are enough of a high-concept draw that people won't need too much explaining.

 

[chris.g]

Let me break it down for Creepshow.... Stephen King = Not Happening. WB = Not Happening. Stop trying to wish & force Universal to PAY for IPs they 1- either can't have. 2- they don't already own.

Force Universal to actually have to be CREATIVE. The best thing to happen to HHN was for the Big 3 to become not available to them (among other IPs). Knotts may repeat content for several years, BUT their event has been going strong for 45+ without the reliance of IPs. Universal can & should do the same, however, they have their own IPs to use if they choose (even if the IPs suck). Wishing & hoping for NON-Universal IPs means more money for the event's budget will go to obtaining that IP. If you want a bigger budget event & less black walls, stop being an IP begging sheep.

I'd rather see original mazes "loosely based" on an IP like Orlando has done many times in the past instead of them wasting money on IPs because they're too lazy to stay relevant with something original to actually properly compete with Knotts & Dark Harbor (I'd say Fright Fest too, but they dropped the ball last year)..

Oh BOY I can't wait for this year's lineup to be revealed just to silent pessimists like you.

 

[hhnlover]

Oh BOY I can't wait for this year's lineup to be revealed just to silent pessimists like you.

r/murderedbywords

 

[DTH]

I'll admit, I see your point about needing to be broadly appealing, but I think there's enough to push Creepshow up to the top. The OG movie was actually a box office smash, maybe not on the level of Friday the 13th or Halloween, but it actually made just a little less than the first Nightmare on Elm Street movie. The Stephen King name draws people in, and I think zombies and evil plants are enough of a high-concept draw that people won't need too much explaining.

Well let's put it in context. NOES had nearly a dozen sequels and a crossover with another popular entity by the time it got to HHN. And also took 4 movies to reach it's height of popularity and become a pop culture phenomenon. Creepshow 2 took 5 years to come out and then did nowhere near as well as the first one. Stephen King is hot right now in our culture, but I don't think anyone is begging for it like they are for It, Pet Sematary, The Shining, or even Carrie. I'd bet on Children of the Corn (many sequels) or The Mist (movie and TV show) before Creepshow. Not to say it's bad or doesn't have a cult following, it's just kinda... irrelevent right now. I'm down for plants but we've seen zombies a dozen times, especially with The Walking Dead right in the park.

I think the one thing that'll make it happen is the remake TV series happening on Shudder. Maybe Universal could strike a deal to get the property and help advertise the platform. However, I don't know if they've planned a solid premiere date. If it's planned for before HHN and fails, Universal will have a disaster on their hands. If it's during October (most likely), it'll just be seen as synergy -- best case scenario. If it comes out after, it'll almost seem like "what's the point?" Regardless, the drawing power seems very minimal.

 

[MacMillian Crew]

Since Creepshow was brought up, I would be in Heaven if that actually came this year! The Crate is my favorite short story from that film and just imagining that creature scare guests would be a dream come true! I bet it would be the same puppetry as AWIL, with the crate hiding the other half of the puppet, instead of holes in the wall. Plus the cool lighting effects from the movie and comic panels could cover any potential black walls easily!

 

[KreepyKarpy]

...and I think zombies and evil plants are enough of a high-concept draw that people won't need too much explaining.

Speaking of which, we need a Plants vs. Zombies maze. That's what Universal needs.
I don't know why everyone's rooting for Ghostbusters and Creepshow over the properties that truly matter. It's insulting that this hasn't been in the speculation radar for the past 20 years.

 

[DJIndy49]

2 reminders.

1. Distribution studio or even producing studio doesn't always own the rights needed to use an IP in HHN. Also rights can revert back to the original creator for a variety of reasons. The whole F13 mess is because the rights reverted back to the original screen writer.

2. HHN's brand is walking into the movies. A few originals here and there are fine but ultimately what separates it from the other haunts is its use of actual movies. Getting mad when they don't do originals is like walking into Pizza Hut and getting mad that they don't sell hamburgers.

 

[hhnlover]

Speaking of which, we need a Plants vs. Zombies maze. That's what Universal needs.

it'll be the simplest TWD overlay ever, just throw some shrubbery and plants in each room.