Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[CoryLevy91]

These comparisons to Crystal Skull
Some people were saying that Shia Labeouf played a better character than Phoebe Waller-Bridge? Or not better, but more likable? Seems like a lot of people didn't like her character's attitude too much from what I saw.

I personally always liked Shia Labeouf since Constantine ( one of my favorite movies. ) I did actually liked him on Crystal Skull. Acting wise. I know the monkey scene was terrible. But I felt like shia had great chemistry with Harrison and he was pretty good in the first half before the monkeys swinging scene.

Phoebe Waller-Bridge did a great job in the film and that sort of talk smells like the usual Internet being garbage kind of content. The character of Helena Shaw actually makes for a great follow up to Mutt Williams. Whereas Mutt is a lot like a young Indiana, more headstrong and full of bravado with a plucky thirst for adventure, Helena acts as more of a foil to Indiana, opposing him in some of his most fundamental ideals, especially in his older age. Of course, since they're his adventure companions they both end up having hearts of gold, unsurprisingly. Helena is meant to oppose Indy, especially in the beginning stages of their re-united relationship.

I personally like the dynamic between Indy and Mutt better than the one between Indy and Helena but that's mainly due to the great (albeit predictable) twist that Mutt is his son that instantly changes Indy's attitude toward him. They also play off each extremely well and the call backs to Last Crusade except Indy is now in the father role are super fun (Indy repeating the 'Intolerable' lines, Mutt being proud of a stunt he's pulled only for Indy to look at him displeased, etc). Dial features similar moments but they just didn't hit as well, IMO, and it's more obtuse since she's not actually Indy's flesh and blood child, though the one call back to Crusade from Shaw was just superb.

With regards to 'replacing' Indy, I think both Crystal Skull and Dial both do a really good job at having these new characters introduced and figure prominently into the films without either of them feeling like they're jockeying for position with Indy or vying for his spot. They both handle those roles well. It is kind of shocking that they've resisted another character taking up the fedora or whip, even if only for a scene.

Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones. You don't make the movie without him. They will undoubtedly try in the future and who knows what the results will be but it will be a monumental uphill battle they have to fight right from the word go. I've seen talk of the idea that Indiana Jones should just be an American James Bond, a new actor every so often going on adventures. To me that whole idea scrapes against the core of Indy in the first place. He's a pastiche of era-appropriate adventure serials. The action in the franchise is what you would have seen in the 40s and 50s, just pumped up to 80s Hollywood blockbuster levels by masters of cinematic crafting.

That just brings me back around to the main problem I have with Dial: it's Indy in a modern action movie. It's set pieces are shot, edited and play like a modern action movie and, personally, it just doesn't work right with Indy. It's not bad, it's just not why I love the franchise.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Phoebe Waller-Bridge did a great job in the film and that sort of talk smells like the usual Internet being garbage kind of content. The character of Helena Shaw actually makes for a great follow up to Mutt Williams. Whereas Mutt is a lot like a young Indiana, more headstrong and full of bravado with a plucky thirst for adventure, Helena acts as more of a foil to Indiana, opposing him in some of his most fundamental ideals, especially in his older age. Of course, since they're his adventure companions they both end up having hearts of gold, unsurprisingly. Helena is meant to oppose Indy, especially in the beginning stages of their re-united relationship.

I personally like the dynamic between Indy and Mutt better than the one between Indy and Helena but that's mainly due to the great (albeit predictable) twist that Mutt is his son that instantly changes Indy's attitude toward him. They also play off each extremely well and the call backs to Last Crusade except Indy is now in the father role are super fun (Indy repeating the 'Intolerable' lines, Mutt being proud of a stunt he's pulled only for Indy to look at him displeased, etc). Dial features similar moments but they just didn't hit as well, IMO, and it's more obtuse since she's not actually Indy's flesh and blood child, though the one call back to Crusade from Shaw was just superb.

With regards to 'replacing' Indy, I think both Crystal Skull and Dial both do a really good job at having these new characters introduced and figure prominently into the films without either of them feeling like they're jockeying for position with Indy or vying for his spot. They both handle those roles well. It is kind of shocking that they've resisted another character taking up the fedora or whip, even if only for a scene.

Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones. You don't make the movie without him. They will undoubtedly try in the future and who knows what the results will be but it will be a monumental uphill battle they have to fight right from the word go. I've seen talk of the idea that Indiana Jones should just be an American James Bond, a new actor every so often going on adventures. To me that whole idea scrapes against the core of Indy in the first place. He's a pastiche of era-appropriate adventure serials. The action in the franchise is what you would have seen in the 40s and 50s, just pumped up to 80s Hollywood blockbuster levels by masters of cinematic crafting.

That just brings me back around to the main problem I have with Dial: it's Indy in a modern action movie. It's set pieces are shot, edited and play like a modern action movie and, personally, it just doesn't work right with Indy. It's not bad, it's just not why I love the franchise.

One of the vids I saw about Phoebe Waller Bridge was Grace Randolph on Beyond the Trailer. She said Phoebe hurt the movie
I always watch Grace reviews

 

[Brian G.]

One of the vids I saw about Phoebe Waller Bridge was Grace Randolph on Beyond the Trailer. She said Phoebe hurt the movie
I always watch Grace reviews

I do not believe she did at all. There was a point where...

Spoiler

I thought she was about to cross Indy again after Voller found them on the boat, which I def could've seen losing people - but it was all a ploy to get them off the boat

 

[CoryLevy91]

One of the vids I saw about Phoebe Waller Bridge was Grace Randolph on Beyond the Trailer. She said Phoebe hurt the movie
I always watch Grace reviews

Having sought out and watched the snippet of their review, I disagree. She's nowhere near as annoying as that reviewer paints her out to be. Acting wise she does a fine job. She's not given the world to work with but that's not really her fault. Like I said above she's clearly intended to be a foil with opposing views to Indy. Even then that plot element only last less than a half of the film before they're working together and she's softening to becoming a more morally righteous character.

I mean, really now:

Spoiler: SPOILER FOR THE END OF DIAL OF DESTINY

Her character literally saves Indiana from essentially killing himself by stranding himself in the past with a bullet wound in his chest.

 

[Nick]

These comparisons to Crystal Skull
Some people were saying that Shia Labeouf played a better character than Phoebe Waller-Bridge? Or not better, but more likable? Seems like a lot of people didn't like her character's attitude too much from what I saw.

I personally always liked Shia Labeouf since Constantine ( one of my favorite movies. ) I did actually liked him on Crystal Skull. Acting wise. I know the monkey scene was terrible. But I felt like shia had great chemistry with Harrison and he was pretty good in the first half before the monkeys swinging scene.

Phoebe Waller-Bridges did her best with what she was given. Her character was written to be a bit of a jerky antagonist for about 2/3 of the movie, nothing she can do to change that.

I really liked Shia around when KotCS came out and was also only 16 so it’s a movie that was not only my entry to the franchise, but I enjoyed it as a fun action movie with some over the top shenanigans going on in the movie. Many forget how hot Shia was during the late 2000’s as a box office draw. Waller-Bridges didn’t give most people an alternative reason to watch this film if you haven’t always been a fan of the franchise.

I actually think this movie could’ve used something like the fridge getting nuked and Indy surviving. This movie needed something to get people talking about it. The way it is is so bland and safe while also being an overly long slog that no one is talking about it.

 

[Lucky Planet]

I do not believe she did at all. There was a point where...

Spoiler

I thought she was about to cross Indy again after Voller found them on the boat, which I def could've seen losing people - but it was all a ploy to get them off the boat

Having sought out and watched the snippet of their review, I disagree. She's nowhere near as annoying as that reviewer paints her out to be. Acting wise she does a fine job. She's not given the world to work with but that's not really her fault. Like I said above she's clearly intended to be a foil with opposing views to Indy. Even then that plot element only last less than a half of the film before they're working together and she's softening to becoming a more morally righteous character.

I mean, really now:

Spoiler: SPOILER FOR THE END OF DIAL OF DESTINY

Her character literally saves Indiana from essentially killing himself by stranding himself in the past with a bullet wound in his chest.

Thank you. It's interesting to see the different reviews. But yeah Grace on her review was really critical. Ive read all the spoilers and I saw part of the ending online on a clip so I saw how it ends.

Phoebe Waller-Bridges did her best with what she was given. Her character was written to be a bit of a jerky antagonist for about 2/3 of the movie, nothing she can do to change that.

I really liked Shia around when KotCS came out and was also only 16 so it’s a movie that was not only my entry to the franchise, but I enjoyed it as a fun action movie with some over the top shenanigans going on in the movie. Many forget how hot Shia was during the late 2000’s as a box office draw. Waller-Bridges didn’t give most people an alternative reason to watch this film if you haven’t always been a fan of the franchise.

I actually think this movie could’ve used something like the fridge getting nuked and Indy surviving. This movie needed something to get people talking about it. The way it is is so bland and safe while also being an overly long slog that no one is talking about it.

It's kinda sad how shias career turned out but he's a really good actor. I've liked most of his movies including transformers. He did an podcast interview with Shane from walking Dead and it was really interesting.

 

[Nick]

Thank you. It's interesting to see the different reviews. But yeah Grace on her review was really critical. Ive read all the spoilers and I saw part of the ending online on a clip so I saw how it ends.



It's kinda sad how shias career turned out but he's a really good actor. I've liked most of his movies including transformers. He did an podcast interview with Shane from walking Dead and it was really interesting.

I’d recommend watching Dan Murrell every once in awhile to get a differing opinion from Grace. She seems to try to create drama where there is none and scapegoats actors without reason simply because she doesn’t like them.

Dan is far more logical and numbers based and does a good job explaining possible reasons for why a movie flopped and breaks down financials.

On Shia - he hasn’t ruined his career. He’s a great actor. The indie stuff he did a few years ago was great. He has no interest in franchise work anymore though.

 

[CoryLevy91]

I’d recommend watching Dan Murrell every once in awhile to get a differing opinion from Grace. She seems to try to create drama where there is none and scapegoats actors without reason simply because she doesn’t like them.

Dan is far more logical and numbers based and does a good job explaining possible reasons for why a movie flopped and breaks down financials.

On Shia - he hasn’t ruined his career. He’s a great actor. The indie stuff he did a few years ago was great. He has no interest in franchise work anymore though.

Reading how much Shia beats himself up for Crystal Skull really made me feel for the guy. Dude all but blames entirely himself for the majority reception that film got when it came out. Which is a real shame because he's really damn good in it. He's had his troubles in a multitude of ways away from the screen but he seems to recognize that and has been working on himself.

 

[Wesker69]

The Movie was great & it honestly didn't feel like 2.5hrs which is a good thing. It felt like an Indiana Jones movie. Also the de-aged Indy looked great. I was content with the movie.

However, I was not really a fan of Helena. If they had cast someone else in the role, I might've liked her better, but Pheobe just didn't do it for me

I liked the "short-round" style character. Bonus points for giving him a Luffy-esque straw hat.

Mads is a great villain, but I'll just always see him as Hannibal Lector lol

 

[Lucky Planet]

I’d recommend watching Dan Murrell every once in awhile to get a differing opinion from Grace. She seems to try to create drama where there is none and scapegoats actors without reason simply because she doesn’t like them.

Dan is far more logical and numbers based and does a good job explaining possible reasons for why a movie flopped and breaks down financials.

On Shia - he hasn’t ruined his career. He’s a great actor. The indie stuff he did a few years ago was great. He has no interest in franchise work anymore though.

Yeah I do watch Dan Murrell and Iike Jeremy Jhans as well. I watch them every time, every week. ( I liked Chris stuckman when he did reviews more frequently. He's kinda stopped)

I personally watch Grace because she seems to guess stuff correctly from time to time and she seems to have connections with Hollywood since she seems to know behind the scenes stuff. I like her energy on the vids lol. She's like Dan in a way with her movie math vids

 

[Nick]

So I thought this was interesting to point out as far as how poor Indy's box office is versus what I think Disney was hoping for:

Transformers: Rise of the Beasts was the first mainline Transformers movie since 2017's The Last Knight (talk about a franchise coming off of a bad movie). 2018's Bumblebee did help save the franchises reputation a bit by moving on from Bay and diving into a the beginning of a new prequel series, but not many people saw that movie (although by all accounts, those that did highly enjoyed it).

With all of that, Rise of the Beasts opened to $61M, roughly $700K more than Dial Of Destiny and it opened in only 3,678 theaters. Indiana Jones 5 opened to $60.3M, but played in 4,600 theaters - one of the widest openings for any movie ever. That means that the per theater average for Rise of the beast was actually far better than Indy, with RotB having a $16,597 opening weekend per theater average. Dial Of Destiny's per theater average on opening weekend was quite a bit lower, coming in at $13,123 per theater. This tells me that there was actually quite a bit of interest in Rise of the Beasts and, had they opened in more theaters on the scale that Dial of Destiny opened with, you're likely looking at a movie that opens around $70-$75M.

Just thought that was interesting that people are comparing this opening to The Flash and Transformers, and it does compare well with The Flash ($13K per theater), but Transformers really had more work it could've gotten in in that opening weekend if it had opened wider. I don't think Paramount accounted for Across The Spiderverse impacting Transformers so much.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Saw Indy

Honestly up until the end of the film, I enjoyed it

The end just......yeah it was what it was but not for me.

I'd for sure rewatch the opening scene and most the film again but the last 20 mins....I can leave

 

[OrlandoGuy]

So I thought this was interesting to point out as far as how poor Indy's box office is versus what I think Disney was hoping for:

Transformers: Rise of the Beasts was the first mainline Transformers movie since 2017's The Last Knight (talk about a franchise coming off of a bad movie). 2018's Bumblebee did help save the franchises reputation a bit by moving on from Bay and diving into a the beginning of a new prequel series, but not many people saw that movie (although by all accounts, those that did highly enjoyed it).

With all of that, Rise of the Beasts opened to $61M, roughly $700K more than Dial Of Destiny and it opened in only 3,678 theaters. Indiana Jones 5 opened to $60.3M, but played in 4,600 theaters - one of the widest openings for any movie ever. That means that the per theater average for Rise of the beast was actually far better than Indy, with RotB having a $16,597 opening weekend per theater average. Dial Of Destiny's per theater average on opening weekend was quite a bit lower, coming in at $13,123 per theater. This tells me that there was actually quite a bit of interest in Rise of the Beasts and, had they opened in more theaters on the scale that Dial of Destiny opened with, you're likely looking at a movie that opens around $70-$75M.

Just thought that was interesting that people are comparing this opening to The Flash and Transformers, and it does compare well with The Flash ($13K per theater), but Transformers really had more work it could've gotten in in that opening weekend if it had opened wider. I don't think Paramount accounted for Across The Spiderverse impacting Transformers so much.

I’m not sure how this fits into your analysis, but Transformers is a lot more international-heavy while Indiana Jones has made more of its money domestically. But that’s more of an indicator of interest than per-theater average, especially given I’m not sure how theater counts compare overseas if that’s where you’re expecting to make more of your money.

 

[Nick]

I’m not sure how this fits into your analysis, but Transformers is a lot more international-heavy while Indiana Jones has made more of its money domestically. But that’s more of an indicator of interest than per-theater average, especially given I’m not sure how theater counts compare overseas if that’s where you’re expecting to make more of your money.

Well, the reason Transformers is more popular overseas isn't too hard to figure out. The first major Transformers movies was released in 2007. This was right around the start of the MCU and the start of international playing a big part in all Hollywood blockbusters, specifically China.

Much like Star Wars, Indy isn't as popular overseas because the original Trilogy of movies was released back in 1981-1989. Crystal Skull did make close to $800M Worldwide in 2008 with a little over half coming from overseas. The 2008 movie also did not get a China release, so the brand is completely unknown over there.

 

[Nick]

So it's been 27 days since release and *Elemental* has made more worldwide than Indy and Indy has only made roughly $22M more than Elemental domestically and we're at the point where Elemental has continued to stick around to the point where Indy has fallen below it at the daily box office. This films is a HUGE bomb.

Elemental on the other hand I think turned out to be a film that maybe had to be a sacrificial lamb. It clearly could've done better had they chose a better opening spot and marketed it better, but I think Elemental has done it's job in being a good film that had great world of mouth and also letting audiences know that Pixar movies are seen in theaters, not on Disney+.

 

[CoryLevy91]

The further I get away from it the more it just doesn't feel like an Indy movie. It just takes itself a little too seriously and the action scenes just go on for far too long and keep things almost too grounded.

Indy is a fun, light, over the top, a throwback to flimsy, near farcical serials. You have this extended vintage Indy opening and the most over the top thing that happens is him surviving a bomb lodging itself in the building he's in while he's being hanged by Nazis. After that it's just punching his way through the train. People will say 'well what do you expect from the action, he's like 80 years old' but that opening sequence is even lackluster!

I respect wanting to tell the story of how he's out of touch and not really needed in an ever changing world (though to be honest I really think Indy would be all for space exploration and wouldn't be a grumpy old man about that aspect) but I don't really know if that fits into the franchise. I'll absolutely stand by the idea that Crystal Skull gave us a much better 'old' Indy film, the fatherly Indy stuff was done better and he arguably had a better send off. Finally settling down and marrying Marion while Mutt existing as a future progression of an adventurer in waiting. Dial has the wonderful "this hurts" callback but that's about it as far as the ending goes.

 

[Nick]

The further I get away from it the more it just doesn't feel like an Indy movie. It just takes itself a little too seriously and the action scenes just go on for far too long and keep things almost too grounded.

Indy is a fun, light, over the top, a throwback to flimsy, near farcical serials. You have this extended vintage Indy opening and the most over the top thing that happens is him surviving a bomb lodging itself in the building he's in while he's being hanged by Nazis. After that it's just punching his way through the train. People will say 'well what do you expect from the action, he's like 80 years old' but that opening sequence is even lackluster!

I respect wanting to tell the story of how he's out of touch and not really needed in an ever changing world (though to be honest I really think Indy would be all for space exploration and wouldn't be a grumpy old man about that aspect) but I don't really know if that fits into the franchise. I'll absolutely stand by the idea that Crystal Skull gave us a much better 'old' Indy film, the fatherly Indy stuff was done better and he arguably had a better send off. Finally settling down and marrying Marion while Mutt existing as a future progression of an adventurer in waiting. Dial has the wonderful "this hurts" callback but that's about it as far as the ending goes.

Yeah. It’s also very forgettable.

 

[CoryLevy91]

Yeah. It’s also very forgettable.

It really, really is. Chalk it up to the character and actor being so old they didn't want to have him doing super outlandish sequences but when you wade too far the opposite direction things just get boring and not memorable.

Stance on Crystal Skull aside, at least you will remember Indy fighting from the Area 51 warehouse to a sound barrier breaking missile to a nuclear testing site that he survives in a fridge or the jungle chase with the (dreaded!) vine swing, tree cutting tank explosions, ant hill battles and waterfall... fall.

Dial will be remembered for where it goes in the last act but that's pretty much it. Even when they get there nothing really happens. Looking back it's actually a little frustrating that Indy really doesn't have much of a hand in stopping the main villain. He just gets dragged along the way while they end up mucking their own plans up to the nth degree.

 

[saint.piss]

Watched this movie a few weeks ago and I kinda hated it. It felt very very pointless and was really boring. One of the most bland and generic blockbusters in recent memory in my opinion, Harrison deserved wayyyyyyy better.

 

[CoryLevy91]

It's so weird to me because there was this seeming general sense that they somehow made a grand failure for the ages with Crystal Skull and one of the reasons for making Dial was to redeem the character. In the end though they made a worse film (IMO, obviously) that's less memorable, more generic and just less fun and adventurous than the entire series before it. My biggest fear going in was that they would treat the character and this film with soft gloves and such reverence and make it too real and grounded and that's essentially what ended up happening.

Crystal Skull came out right in the beginning of the golden age of short take, hot take, quip riddled, cheap cinematic critical analysis. It was buried by pop culture quite unfairly and I wish Harrison Ford and Steven Spielberg and everyone else involved knew how underrated it's become in decade plus after release.