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Lionsgate World Resort

  • Thread starter Thread starter OrlandoParks
  • Start date Start date Nov 20, 2013

Thoughts on SkyPlex?

  • I want it!

  • I have concerns, but still want to see it built.

  • I hate it!

  • I don't care.


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Teebin

Teebin

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  • Oct 19, 2015
  • #281
CatCatCat said:
To add to Bob's post, here's a nice illustrated view of where the Skyscraper polercoaster will be located, along with the rest of the Skyplex complex:
Click to expand...

Hmmm... that would put the tower about 700' closer to Uni than I was measuring from. Thanks for posting those details.
 
Donald Razorduck

Donald Razorduck

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  • Oct 19, 2015
  • #282
SeventyOne said:
The closest residences are all apartments (whose residents aren't known for caring about zoning issues). Dr Phillips and Williamsburg could possibly see the tower, might make a better case for traffic issues, but neither is particularly close. Nobody right on top of this thing.
Click to expand...
So, this neighborhood that complained really doesn't have a dog in this fight and likely fearmongered and/or goaded into it's opposition.

Useful idiots.
 
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Donald Razorduck

Donald Razorduck

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  • Oct 19, 2015
  • #283
Teebin said:
Hmmm... that would put the tower about 700' closer to Uni than I was measuring from. Thanks for posting those details.
Click to expand...

If UNI is concerned that it's views are ruined from other development, maybe it should have bought some swamp land like some others folks did. Unless they are ready to pay rent of the air above other's land to prevent vertical development they need to shut up. It's not up to Universal to call into question the viability of other peoples projects. It's like a restaurant trying to stop another one from opening because it's menu is similar saying there's a chance it'll fail. Every business can fail but it's not Universal's business. If it fails they can buy it up.
 
Teebin

Teebin

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  • Oct 19, 2015
  • #284
Donald Razorduck said:
If UNI is concerned that it's views are ruined from other development, maybe it should have bought some swamp land like some others folks did. Unless they are ready to pay rent of the air above other's land to prevent vertical development they need to shut up. It's not up to Universal to call into question the viability of other peoples projects. It's like a restaurant trying to stop another one from opening because it's menu is similar saying there's a chance it'll fail. Every business can fail but it's not Universal's business. If it fails they can buy it up.
Click to expand...

Goodness Donald, I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. Uni bought land where they bought and that is that. If they don't like the competitors ideas and do not want to see it built, then they have every right to try and see that it is denied by the county. Uni cannot deny it themselves.
 
Donald Razorduck

Donald Razorduck

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #285
Teebin said:
Goodness Donald, I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. Uni bought land where they bought and that is that. If they don't like the competitors ideas and do not want to see it built, then they have every right to try and see that it is denied by the county. Uni cannot deny it themselves.
Click to expand...

That's like McDonalds trying to.use political power to stop Burger King from building across the street claiming it'll gum up the intersection. It's completely disingenuous.

People forget there's another proposal across the street from this and that's a Star Flyer, they are completely awesome in their own right.
 
Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
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Brian G.

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #286
Donald Razorduck said:
That's like McDonalds trying to.use political power to stop Burger King from building across the street claiming it'll gum up the intersection. It's completely disingenuous.

People forget there's another proposal across the street from this and that's a Star Flyer, they are completely awesome in their own right.
Click to expand...

But Burger King has a track record of being successful.

Let's look at the Eye right now for an example. The main draw is riddled with problems, and have already had to start offering heavy deals and discounts. I don't think it's strictly competition. If I were Universal, would you want a prime piece of real estate going to an attraction complex with no track record that's 500+ ft in the sky? Because if it fails, that prime piece of land is gone, and the sight lines in Universal will be affected by a 500 ft graveyard marker. I do think Universal should not have gotten involved, but am glad they did because I really don't know if I want this project to happen.

If it does open, I think that corridor will also be a traffic nightmare, but that's unrelated to Universal's beef.

Either way, this probably won't even happen regardless of Universal's fight. There are a lot of questions regarding the project that were raised way before UOR got involved.
 
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maxairmike

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #287
BriMan said:
But Burger King has a track record of being successful.

Let's look at the Eye right now for an example. The main draw is riddled with problems, and have already had to start offering heavy deals and discounts. I don't think it's strictly competition. If I were Universal, would you want a prime piece of real estate going to an attraction complex with no track record that's 500+ ft in the sky? Because if it fails, that prime piece of land is gone, and the sight lines in Universal will be affected by a 500 ft graveyard marker. I do think Universal should not have gotten involved, but am glad they did because I really don't know if I want this project to happen.

If it does open, I think that corridor will also be a traffic nightmare, but that's unrelated to Universal's beef.

Either way, this probably won't even happen regardless of Universal's fight. There are a lot of questions regarding the project that were raised way before UOR got involved.
Click to expand...

My response to both bolded sentences is a strong "Meh."

On the first one, like someone else said earlier in the thread, a prime piece of real estate like that won't go untouched if a developer really wants it, whether it's already built on or not. Also, I think there are a lot of developers and operators that would love to have a project like this, but don't have the cash and/or stones to build it first. If Skyplex goes under, I think there will be multiple groups lined up to take over. It's theoretically (you'll understand why I say theoretically when I mention the traffic below) a great location, and outside of the roller coaster, probably a perfectly sound concept. Let's be honest, if it weren't for the roller coaster this thing would be largely uninteresting as yet another mega retail center and no one would think twice about it. Given that, I hope they're designing the structure in such a way that if it goes under and other developers don't want to deal with coaster it (i.e. the track and any externally visible supports) can be removed with relatively little pain.

As to the second, it already is a massive traffic nightmare and I'm not sure how much worse this could possibly make it. Between about noon and 10pm/midnight (depending on the season) Sand Lake westbound fluctuates between being backed up halfway to Universal Blvd. to backing up past the merge point for the Kirkman ramp. Eastbound isn't as bad, but it will sometimes back up to or beyond I-4 if there's enough traffic wanting to turn north on I-Drive at that intersection. I-Drive itself is a mess north and southbound at that intersection as well. I've been in a backup beyond Universal Blvd. on southbound I-Drive a few times (in the middle of the day, to boot!), and have seen northbound traffic backed up nearly to the Kings plaza. The proposed overhead pedestrian walkway should help the light cycles and traffic flow significantly (20 seconds off each light cycle for pedestrian only crossing time and pauses in traffic flow yielding to pedestrians add up really fast), along with more parking garages being built to help spread out traffic and encourage walking between points of interest. If they can eliminate most/all at grade pedestrian crossings, that alone will improve traffic flow greatly. The only remaining impediment to traffic flow becomes the I-Ride Trolley.

They really screwed up in planning I-Drive initially by not creating sufficient set back requirements to allow for widening, and also in not actively trying to direct some traffic for things like Pointe Orlando to Universal Blvd.
 
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Brian G.

Brian G.

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #288
maxairmike said:
My response to both bolded sentences is a strong "Meh."

On the first one, like someone else said earlier in the thread, a prime piece of real estate like that won't go untouched if a developer really wants it, whether it's already built on or not. Also, I think there are a lot of developers and operators that would love to have a project like this, but don't have the cash and/or stones to build it first. If Skyplex goes under, I think there will be multiple groups lined up to take over. It's theoretically (you'll understand why I say theoretically when I mention the traffic below) a great location, and outside of the roller coaster, probably a perfectly sound concept. Let's be honest, if it weren't for the roller coaster this thing would be largely uninteresting as yet another mega retail center and no one would think twice about it. Given that, I hope they're designing the structure in such a way that if it goes under and other developers don't want to deal with coaster it (i.e. the track and any externally visible supports) can be removed with relatively little pain.

As to the second, it already is a massive traffic nightmare and I'm not sure how much worse this could possibly make it. Between about noon and 10pm/midnight (depending on the season) Sand Lake westbound fluctuates between being backed up halfway to Universal Blvd. to backing up past the merge point for the Kirkman ramp. Eastbound isn't as bad, but it will sometimes back up to or beyond I-4 if there's enough traffic wanting to turn north on I-Drive at that intersection. I-Drive itself is a mess north and southbound at that intersection as well. I've been in a backup beyond Universal Blvd. on southbound I-Drive a few times (in the middle of the day, to boot!), and have seen northbound traffic backed up nearly to the Kings plaza. The proposed overhead pedestrian walkway should help the light cycles and traffic flow significantly (20 seconds off each light cycle for pedestrian only crossing time and pauses in traffic flow yielding to pedestrians add up really fast), along with more parking garages being built to help spread out traffic and encourage walking between points of interest. If they can eliminate most/all at grade pedestrian crossings, that alone will improve traffic flow greatly. The only remaining impediment to traffic flow becomes the I-Ride Trolley.

They really screwed up in planning I-Drive initially by not creating sufficient set back requirements to allow for widening, and also in not actively trying to direct some traffic for things like Pointe Orlando to Universal Blvd.
Click to expand...

You say "Meh", but even still you have some questions and hesitations about the project.. :lol:
 
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maxairmike

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #289
BriMan said:
You say "Meh", but even still you have some questions and hesitations about the project.. :lol:
Click to expand...

Yes, I do, but the first one is the only one that's actually part of them. The traffic concern I think is pretty much an "it is what it is" situation considering I don't think it can get much worse, and the improvements coming with this and other developments down the pipeline should help improve things in the long run. I got started on the traffic section and decided I might as well flesh it out fully, even though I think it has no real importance to whether the complex gets built or not. It's something I enjoy talking about...and I'll stop myself before I get going again. :lol:
 
MrRoamer

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I don't think you can automatically assume that because it is prime real estate or something others would be happy to invest in people would. May I bring up the I-4 Eyesore?
To me I think it is a bigger deal to consider its failure. They are finally cleaning up I-Drive and undoing the hell hole that it had become. If this thing does go up and doesn't have the planning, backing, etc that it needs to be successful this is just going to be a giant step back on the progress that has been made. Yes I-Drive does have a lot of traffic, but how much of that traffic would actually care about this thing? I would wager a very small percentage would be the clientele of this project, so I'll just assume it will increase the traffic problems. I wouldn't have any problems with it going into FunSpot, because I know that FunSpot wouldn't let it become a dilapidated grave marker, have done their homework, and has a proven track record.
 
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ThreePack Shagur

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  • Oct 20, 2015
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I agree with BriMan. The Eye is a failure, and it's currently closed with no reopening date announced. Truth is, most attractions that open on I-Drive fail, they have for the past 25 years.

As to Donald's complaint of "If UNI is concerned that it's views are ruined from other development, maybe it should have bought some swamp land like some others folks did." When Universal bought the land in the early 80s, it was undeveloped farmland, surrounded by even more farmland. They chose a location close to I-4 and the turnpike to attract travelers on the way to Disney. Everything developed around them.
 
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maxairmike

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #292
MrRoamer said:
I don't think you can automatically assume that because it is prime real estate or something others would be happy to invest in people would. May I bring up the I-4 Eyesore?
To me I think it is a bigger deal to consider its failure. They are finally cleaning up I-Drive and undoing the hell hole that it had become. If this thing does go up and doesn't have the planning, backing, etc that it needs to be successful this is just going to be a giant step back on the progress that has been made. Yes I-Drive does have a lot of traffic, but how much of that traffic would actually care about this thing? I would wager a very small percentage would be the clientele of this project, so I'll just assume it will increase the traffic problems. I wouldn't have any problems with it going into FunSpot, because I know that FunSpot wouldn't let it become a dilapidated grave marker, have done their homework, and has a proven track record.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing: Stop thinking about this as just the roller coaster. It is really just a large shopping/entertainment complex with a really tall focal point, or "weenie." How much marketing traction does this thing get if it's just another big retail complex? Not a lot. How much does it get when you make the world's tallest roller coaster the focal point of your marketing? Well, you've seen the results. The roller coaster isn't the main thing, it's the marketing draw to get people looking. They don't even have to be interested in riding it, and it likely doesn't have to individually operate at a profit as long as it's getting peoples attention and driving foot traffic. Considering Universal wasn't very interested in shouting down iSquare (another large hotel/shopping development) when it also included a giant tower not much shorter than Skyplex that's ever so slightly closer to the resort, and still has at least one tower section that will reach to 450 ft. without any public (or private, for that matter) pushback from them I don't think they're really all that worried about the aesthetics of I-Drive.
 
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MrRoamer

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maxairmike said:
Here's the thing: Stop thinking about this as just the roller coaster. It is really just a large shopping/entertainment complex with a really tall focal point, or "weenie." How much marketing traction does this thing get if it's just another big retail complex? Not a lot. How much does it get when you make the world's tallest roller coaster the focal point of your marketing? Well, you've seen the results. The roller coaster isn't the main thing, it's the marketing draw to get people looking. They don't even have to be interested in riding it, and it likely doesn't have to individually operate at a profit as long as it's getting peoples attention and driving foot traffic. Considering Universal wasn't very interested in shouting down iSquare (another large hotel/shopping development) when it also included a giant tower not much shorter than Skyplex that's ever so slightly closer to the resort, and still has at least one tower section that will reach to 450 ft. without any public (or private, for that matter) pushback from them I don't think they're really all that worried about the aesthetics of I-Drive.
Click to expand...
The area doesn't need another mall area though, it is already over saturated and most of them are not in good shape. In that area you have the outlet mall by FunSpot, the outlet mall west towards Disney, Millenial, Pointe Orlando, Artegon, and then all the shopping complexes (tourist traps) littered up and down I-Drive. Pointe Orlando has been a shadow of itself for years, and last I heard Artegon is not having a great time of it. The surplus of shopping complexes is what caused I-Drive to go downhill in the first place.
 
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Brian G.

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  • Oct 20, 2015
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I just want more Applebee's.
 
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OrlandoGuy

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  • Oct 20, 2015
  • #295
MrRoamer said:
The area doesn't need another mall area though, it is already over saturated and most of them are not in good shape. In that area you have the outlet mall by FunSpot, the outlet mall west towards Disney, Millenial, Pointe Orlando, Artegon, and then all the shopping complexes (tourist traps) littered up and down I-Drive. Pointe Orlando has been a shadow of itself for years, and last I heard Artegon is not having a great time of it. The surplus of shopping complexes is what caused I-Drive to go downhill in the first place.
Click to expand...
Shopping is more of a tourist draw to Orlando than the theme parks are tho. Festival Bay/Artegon/whatever failed because it was run poorly and literally adjacent to the cheaper and much less expensive outlet mall, which is honestly one of Orlando's main attractions at this point. Also, South American tourists aren't going anywhere soon, that market is only gonna get bigger, meaning more shopping options will never be a bad thing.

BUT...as much as I really want this to happen, I can see the other side. The Eye's hype wore off way too quickly (granted, it is the slow season and I would give it at least one more summer/holiday before jumping the gun calling it a "failure") and standalone attractions in a town that has been built on immersive resorts probably aren't a great idea.

We will see what happens. On one hand, you can't underestimate the draw of more shopping (and the fact that a huge roller coaster is likely more of a draw than a Ferris wheel). On the other, there's a lot besides just Universal going against it. And speaking of which, Universal is being pretty uncool...you get to be a big dawg by not worrying about the competition, not coaxing organizations into petty arguments. Oh well, if I had to make a serious guess, I would say we don't see this thing actually get built, at least not for a while.
 
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maxairmike

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  • #296
MrRoamer said:
The area doesn't need another mall area though, it is already over saturated and most of them are not in good shape. In that area you have the outlet mall by FunSpot, the outlet mall west towards Disney, Millenial, Pointe Orlando, Artegon, and then all the shopping complexes (tourist traps) littered up and down I-Drive. Pointe Orlando has been a shadow of itself for years, and last I heard Artegon is not having a great time of it. The surplus of shopping complexes is what caused I-Drive to go downhill in the first place.
Click to expand...

Artegon/Festival Bay was a flop from the get-go, and the north Premium Outlets are the cause of the hell that is I-Drive North traffic. Considering how ridiculous all the malls and outlets in the area get on a regular basis, there's obvious extra demand for retail/entertainment, it's just being able to position yourself physically and within the market to capture that demand that has seemed to be the problem. Pointe Orlando I think is a unique situation, and while certain outlets within the whole haven't been successful, the complex as a whole has been, and it contains top performers for the locations that are there within their chains. The crappy tourist trap strip malls are certainly not desirable, but they also wouldn't still be there if they didn't make enough.

There are doubts to be had, but I'm not sure they're truly being hit on in this thread or by Universal's dissent. What is perfectly clear, though, is that Universal isn't actually interested in I-Drive, it's interested in itself. If they were actually interested in I-Drive they likely would have made a stink about iSquare and the Starflyer. They're concerned about the combination of Mango's and Skyplex hitting their convention and entertainment business.
 
Brian G.

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  • #297
maxairmike said:
Artegon/Festival Bay was a flop from the get-go, and the north Premium Outlets are the cause of the hell that is I-Drive North traffic. Considering how ridiculous all the malls and outlets in the area get on a regular basis, there's obvious extra demand for retail/entertainment, it's just being able to position yourself physically and within the market to capture that demand that has seemed to be the problem. Pointe Orlando I think is a unique situation, and while certain outlets within the whole haven't been successful, the complex as a whole has been, and it contains top performers for the locations that are there within their chains. The crappy tourist trap strip malls are certainly not desirable, but they also wouldn't still be there if they didn't make enough.

There are doubts to be had, but I'm not sure they're truly being hit on in this thread or by Universal's dissent. What is perfectly clear, though, is that Universal isn't actually interested in I-Drive, it's interested in itself. If they were actually interested in I-Drive they likely would have made a stink about iSquare and the Starflyer. They're concerned about the combination of Mango's and Skyplex hitting their convention and entertainment business.
Click to expand...

I think it's obvious Universal has other intentions/ideas behind their beef, they're just not showing their hand.
 
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Donald Razorduck

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Man, the UNI homerism of this site is shining through. Y'all carry some water by the buckets for them. I love Uni but this is just ridiculous much like the opinion piece in the Sentinel states.
 
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ThreePack Shagur

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maxairmike said:
Pointe Orlando I think is a unique situation, and while certain outlets within the whole haven't been successful, the complex as a whole has been, and it contains top performers for the locations that are there within their chains.
Click to expand...

Pointe Orlando of today is nothing like the Pointe Orlando of 10 years ago though. The whole place was pretty much rebuilt in the late 00's, the only thing that's stayed the same is the movie theater, and even it's changed owners.
 
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Brian G.

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Donald Razorduck said:
Man, the UNI homerism of this site is shining through. Y'all carry some water by the buckets for them. I love Uni but this is just ridiculous much like the opinion piece in the Sentinel states.
Click to expand...

Oh-really-gif_1.gif
 
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