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Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

  • Thread starter Thread starter ReelJustice
  • Start date Start date Jul 10, 2012
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Mike S

Mike S

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Next Big Thing said:
Disney spent $2Bn on MM+ (which mostly began as infrastructure upgrades). If Disney can spend that kind of money on MM+, $500M for new monorails is chump change.
Click to expand...
More like $4 Billion now.
 
Nico

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Can someone explain the difference between monorails and elevated rail? I'm uniformed.
 
Nick

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Mike S said:
More like $4 Billion now.
Click to expand...
Yeah... i'm not quite on-board with spirit's theories of late. He's been making up for a lot of misinformation he spread about SHDL by saying how bad MM+ is. Sure it's possible, but when you just got one thing incredibly wrong, i'm not inclined to believe your cover up.

Plus, he's an attention whore.
 
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s8film40

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GAcoaster said:
The "monorail" at OIA is not a monorail. Disney has ZERO interest in it since it was made by and is owned and run by Bombardier who built Disney's current fleet of monorails and who Disney refuses to work with and they refuse to work with Disney.

Yes, people movers are sold as monorails and are still being produced but you will not see a true monorail get built. The last real monorail built in the U.S. was the Vegas monorail and it cost more than a billion dollars and has not lived up to expectations.
Click to expand...
Disney has no issues working with Bombardier. They've worked with them very recently. My understanding is that Disney currently wouldn't have a large enough order to make it as cost effective as it is for others they are providing monorails to, additionally they've moved onto more advanced monorails. So outside of Disney investing in a huge new system for the whole resort what they need would be a small specialized order.
 
Nick

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s8film40 said:
Disney has no issues working with Bombardier. They've worked with them very recently. My understanding is that Disney currently wouldn't have a large enough order to make it as cost effective as it is for others they are providing monorails to, additionally they've moved onto more advanced monorails. So outside of Disney investing in a huge new system for the whole resort what they need would be a small specialized order.
Click to expand...
Could it be possible that Disney orders new monorails from Bombardier for both WDW and DL and that help make it more cost effective (and also help get it approved)?
 
s8film40

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Surfster said:
Can someone explain the difference between monorails and elevated rail? I'm uniformed.
Click to expand...
Monorail:

Mono = One
Rail = Rail

A monorail is a train traveling on one rail. A monorail train can be elevated, on ground level or even below ground.

Elevated rail is any rail system that is elevated above grade so that it can travel over traffic.

Typically monorail can be far more cost effective since the train is traveling on only one rail. These cost savings are exaggerated when applied to an elevated train since the monorail can essentially travel on the elevated supports themeselves. To build a typical elevated train would require building supports and beams similar to what you see monorails traveling on then on top of that a platform to hold a traditional rail system. This is why monorails are often confused with elevated trains because this is the situation where they are most beneficial.
 
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s8film40

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Next Big Thing said:
Could it be possible that Disney orders new monorails from Bombardier for both WDW and DL and that help make it more cost effective (and also help get it approved)?
Click to expand...
They're completely different systems. I think if Disney upgraded to Innovia 300 they could probably get better pricing since Bombardier recently built a new factory just for those trains. Also I'm not sure the exact details of the deal but when Disney contracted Bombardier to build the Mark VI (Innovia 100) monorails they gave them the patents to their monorail and people mover technology. So I'm not sure another company could even do it for Disney.
 
GAcoaster

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s8film40 said:
Disney has no issues working with Bombardier. They've worked with them very recently. My understanding is that Disney currently wouldn't have a large enough order to make it as cost effective as it is for others they are providing monorails to, additionally they've moved onto more advanced monorails. So outside of Disney investing in a huge new system for the whole resort what they need would be a small specialized order.
Click to expand...

Disney does have issues with Bombardier, that's why they've been ordering spare parts and even the replacement cabs for the trains from other vendors. You are correct that Bombardier (or any manufacturer) really doesn't want to manufacture the small quantity of trains that Disney needs. They probably would for the right price, but Disney isn't willing to pay. Supposedly Siemens has had talks about building a new fleet, but they want to have their name on it and Disney won't agree to it.

That is neither here nor there, since this thread is about expansion of Universal and transportation between areas of THEIR property. Sorry we got off track...
 
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s8film40

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GAcoaster said:
Disney does have issues with Bombardier, that's why they've been ordering spare parts and even the replacement cabs for the trains from other vendors. You are correct that Bombardier (or any manufacturer) really doesn't want to manufacture the small quantity of trains that Disney needs. They probably would for the right price, but Disney isn't willing to pay. Supposedly Siemens has had talks about building a new fleet, but they want to have their name on it and Disney won't agree to it.

That is neither here nor there, since this thread is about expansion of Universal and transportation between areas of THEIR property. Sorry we got off track...
Click to expand...
Bombardier is a manufacturer, they're not going to build parts or additions to their outdated trains. Bombardier absolutely will build new train if Disney is willing to pay for them.

Getting slightly more back on track Las Vegas has plans in the works to expand their system. It could make sense for either Disney or Universal to order similar train in conjunction with them to reduce costs or for Bombardier to be able to use that situation to reduce costs.

All that being said I still think the cable driven trains are the best choice for Universal's given the shorter distance and fewer stops. However if the Convention center to OIA train could be expanded and Universal build an extension off if that that could be a huge deal as it would give Universal a direct connection to the airport as well.
 
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misterID

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GAcoaster said:
The "monorail" at OIA is not a monorail. Disney has ZERO interest in it since it was made by and is owned and run by Bombardier who built Disney's current fleet of monorails and who Disney refuses to work with and they refuse to work with Disney.

Yes, people movers are sold as monorails and are still being produced but you will not see a true monorail get built. The last real monorail built in the U.S. was the Vegas monorail and it cost more than a billion dollars and has not lived up to expectations.
Click to expand...
Disney did have interest in it for some project, I can't remember for what though.
 
IAmFloridaBorn

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Universal won't be building a monorail unless they charge for it in a transportation resort fee or something. They will use BUS.
 
misterID

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This would be nicer.

triangle-transit-rail.jpg


macau-light-rail2.jpg
 
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Parkscope Joe

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GAcoaster said:
Except that they won't. They sold MM+ to the board as being cheaper than it ended up being and that it would recoup its investment. Spending on a monorail has no potential for ROI to sell them on.
Click to expand...

And MM+ with a ROI that never happened.
 
Parkscope Joe

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s8film40 said:
Monorail:

Mono = One
Rail = Rail
Click to expand...

Bmu30fHCUAAwEqp.jpg


Spirit wants attention, but MM+ is hopeless and Disney's having issues. But lets not forget this post is about UOR expansion.
 
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mike.marty

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IAmFloridaBorn said:
Universal won't be building a monorail unless they charge for it in a transportation resort fee or something. They will use BUS.
Click to expand...
This was probably mentioned already but the monorail at TDR requires paid tickets. I was there last week and I really didn't mind it, the monorails are in great shape and extremely convenient.
 
Parkscope Joe

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mike.marty said:
This was probably mentioned already but the monorail at TDR requires paid tickets. I was there last week and I really didn't mind it, the monorails are in great shape and extremely convenient.
Click to expand...

That's because after a certain length the japanese government takes over operation of transportation. That's why the railroad only goes partially around the park. Or, at least, that's my understanding.
 
Nick

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testtrack321 said:
Bmu30fHCUAAwEqp.jpg


Spirit wants attention, but MM+ is hopeless and Disney's having issues. But lets not forget this post is about UOR expansion.
Click to expand...
Oh, i'm not defending MM+ and think Storymaker is just dumb, but I also don't think the situation is as he's trying to present it either.
 
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Just to clarify a technical detail, the OIA system isn't Bombardier, its a Mitsubishi system (they're also building the new APM trains), but Tampa's system is Bombardier.

Also, the INOVIA 300s would require some major structural changes on the MK loops, for instance the clearance in the Contemporary isn't enough to fit them, height-wise, and I don't know how much room they have to increase the ceiling height there. But anyway...oh and yes, in Japan if a rail line has two or more stops it has to be a part of the public system or something like that, hence one station on the train in the park.

But as for Universal, I expect they'll use busses in part, but I also expect they're seriously exploring options to take traffic off the roads and also keep guests within their system. That could take shape in a few different ways with elevated systems, but one that I think isn't much of an option is a cable car/funicular. Limited to two trains, which is a major capacity drag, and there's no loading another train during transit time. That works fine for a short, in-park attraction but I would expect it to be very inadequate at handling opening and closing rushes, or any other high-demand times for that long of a trip.
 
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s8film40

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maxairmike said:
But as for Universal, I expect they'll use busses in part, but I also expect they're seriously exploring options to take traffic off the roads and also keep guests within their system. That could take shape in a few different ways with elevated systems, but one that I think isn't much of an option is a cable car/funicular. Limited to two trains, which is a major capacity drag, and there's no loading another train during transit time. That works fine for a short, in-park attraction but I would expect it to be very inadequate at handling opening and closing rushes, or any other high-demand times for that long of a trip.
Click to expand...
I seem to remember hearing about a cable system that allowed multiple trains. Although to be fair I've never really looked into those systems that much, I'm more a fan of monorails. I agree though multiple trains will be needed.
 
Thisguynamedlee

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Do you think they will ever get a rail to the airport or is that way out of question ?
 
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