I don't agree. I'd guess GSAT's are better when lines are shorter. A day consisting of long lines is not a whole lot of fun. Long lines is a topic I see complained about more than just about anything else when I read various forums.
Universal Studios Florida: What Do We Think About It?
- Thread starter belloq87
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The popularity of an attraction is very different then intentionally choosing to reduce capacity to save a few dollars on TM wages.
Agreed. My sister complained practically the whole day and hasn't been back to Universal since last time we went. She wasn't wrong, we didn't get to ride much that day. At Magic Kingdom even on those same busy days there are so many other low wait/no wait stuff that you still feel you get to ride more. That is why reducing capacity and inflating lines frustrates me with Universal. Guests need SOME lower lines during the day to want to come back. They want to see value for their money.
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Wait-times at the more popular attractions should be expected, but Universal needs more high-capacity no-wait experiences that are in 10-15 minutes long. Outside of DAK, all of WDW's parks offer a decent amount of experiences that don't require waits.
So while they may not be E-tickets, it's at least something.
DAK has the shows and animal exhibits. So I would make a case they don't need the lower wait times because they still have stuff to do when you don't want to wait in a line.
And I agree at popular attractions you expect it, but you also expect to be able to sprinkle in some low wait times so you get to ride a decent amount of stuff. Maybe even sit and see longer shows. While Studios does have shows IOA has nothing. So for a one day guest going into IOA, it is going to be a rough day and when you leave you are going to think, oh wow I only rode X things and each of those things last only a couple minutes. Value for your money. It is why I think the loss of entire land that did provide those things is a much larger loss than others think. So people combat that with either being there at rope drop or staying to the end. But now you reduce ops at those times and now people can't even get the lower waits then.
- Jun 21, 2016
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The decisions I will never understand is why they would pull 3D glasses from minions- making it a MUCH worse ride.
Or pulling 3D glasses from Kong- making it a MUCH worse ride.
It’s that type of value cutting that blows my mind.
But if people don’t mention how much more it sucks and/or the lines aren’t affected, they seem to not care.
Running one side isn’t just less staff, it’s less wear on the vehicles and less maintenance as well.
But I certainly agree with others that it is always a little frustrating when there is even a 5-10 min wait and both sides aren’t running.
Penny wise pound foolish decisions. It's what happens at every company that establishes 'Efficiency Committees' . They're always bad long term for a company and self perpetuating since they have to come up with stuff to justify their existence. They are definitely not a plus for guest experiences.
- Jun 21, 2016
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Yuuuup. Disney also has a handful of committees too and none of them will ever say “ok, got it all fixed” because that would put them out of work.
We sure are ignoring lots of other stuff to push a narrative - and I'm not even going to include EU in that basket...
Sounds like UDX is just trying to get back to their pre-pandemic EBITDA margin level, and tasked by CMCSA. Because UOR (and WDW) have reached a price ceiling*, cuts have to be made to reduce costs and improve their margin. CMCSA as a whole entity has nearly matched their pre-pandemic margin (31.0% in 2023, 31.4% in 2019), UDX is falling behind a bit compared to the rest of the company.
2016: $2.2B in EBITDA @ 44.3% margin
2019: $2.5B in EBITDA @ 41.43% margin
2022: $2.7B in EBITDA @ 35.6% margin
2023: $3.3B in EBITDA @ 37.4% margin
*WDW reports additional information for their parks division, and they reported in 2023 that their Per Capita spending only increased by 3% (mainly tied to increased pricing).
While I'm hopeful a lot of these operational changes are temporary until 2025, changes like Kong's are a bit different since that's a direct impact on the experience itself.
2016: $2.2B in EBITDA @ 44.3% margin
2019: $2.5B in EBITDA @ 41.43% margin
2022: $2.7B in EBITDA @ 35.6% margin
2023: $3.3B in EBITDA @ 37.4% margin
*WDW reports additional information for their parks division, and they reported in 2023 that their Per Capita spending only increased by 3% (mainly tied to increased pricing).
What narrative? We are very passionate about the parks and have seen an increased amount of operational changes to the parks that negatively impact the guest experience.
While I'm hopeful a lot of these operational changes are temporary until 2025, changes like Kong's are a bit different since that's a direct impact on the experience itself.
Dreamworks, the work on ET, and the mini Minion/DM land are nice moves in an obviously budget stressed time before Epic opens, plus a return of an even better parade and night shows. I've given Universal credit for that all year. But I don't like 'Efficiency Committees'. They often end up dwelling on aspects that normally would go untouched. I've yet to see a situation with any company that creates them where they are a net long term positive. The happiest day on our cul de sac was when one of our neighbors, who was a VP for a very large Pittsburgh corporation and in charge of their efficiency committee, was himself whacked. He had constantly bragged about how many employees he caused to lose their jobs due to his cost initiatives. He was arrogant and no one liked him due to the joy he took in cutting jobs and other stuff. He had to sell his home and downsize to a smaller one after he was let go. He received his just reward. And the cul de sac was a better place to live without him.
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We're assuming that's what this is though.
I'd bet that there has been a discussion on these forums since Epic's announcement that anticipated 2024 will be a tough year due to heavy investments going towards the finish line, particularly in a post-COVID world. Add to that the anticipated upcoming Summer slump and it would be silly not to expect a cutback-free year. I also anticipate this to be a short-term issue until Epic opens as Universal is doing what most corporations due, protect itself. That doesn't diminish the fact that some of those changes will not sit well with people, whether it's us forum nerds or the GP.
I do think opening portions of the park at 10am, or reducing ops on rides is not a good look either, especially during the Summer (despite its down trend, its still a popular time to travel for most).
However, my gripe continues to be that if we're going to lump up the decision-making as a whole, it has to include the other side, involving additions and upkeep - which we can all agree has been sufficiently evident; and it is also why each situation should be treated on a case-by-case basis because it doesn't paint the whole picture accurately or fairly.
Yes, the fact that the outside of Kong is missing can affect the ride and Universal should address it. However, I'd also like to point out that Kong is the only attraction that has a backup mode that completely resolves the issue (using that term loosely here). When VelociCoaster had issues, it was closed until fixed. The same goes for the current issues of Pteranodon Flyers. Hagrids just got a hefty investment on a maintenance bay to increase the amount of work they can do. Even when the hurricane damaged the Nighttime Lights at Hogwarts and the USF Lagoon show, Universal chose to completely overhaul each instead of just patching them up with a quick fix.
So in the midst of Epic, they invested in DreamWorks, Minons, new nighttime shows, new snack kiosks, new restaurant menus and overhauls, hotel refurbs, bathroom refurbs, infrastructure refurbs, etc.
No, any change is not infallible of criticism - I'm just over each decision being painted with such a broad paintbrush.
Plus due to COVID, I heard somewhere that Epic ran well over budget as well. So it makes sense why some of the newer attractions like VCMB and DW land skewed on the cheaper end of the totem pole. Plus Universal wanted said attractions to cater to younger children as well to draw the typical Disney families who feel Universal lacks kid friendly rides to try UOR, and get them hooked on trying Universal again for future trips to Orlando.
- Jul 24, 2018
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With inflation, I'm sure they're WAY over the budget for EU that was probably set in .. what.. 2018?
I think they've rebounded OK from their 2021/2022/early 2023 operations slump, some of it due to the hurricane damage. And that's why I started going back after a hiatus. I booked Mardi Gras 2024, which was pretty good, especially the quality of the food at the booths and the parade, and I'm one of the minority that really enjoyed the Villains attraction. I'll be back in the Fall 'if' they run the night show and parade before the Christmas/Holiday stuff starts. And I think we'll probably do Mardi Gras 2025 with the late Easter allowing more scheduling flexibility than 2024 had. I'm definitely avoiding the opening of Epic, but I'll schedule Universal for Nov. 2025 to visit Epic. I still prefer the convenience of the hotels and IOA/Studios within walking distance and we love CityWalk compared to WDW which is lifeless when the parks close. . Universal is a more relaxing vacation than Disney and the nightlife is much much better with CityWalk and the hotel bars/restaurants all close by. WDW wins on entertainment and night shows by a wide margin though. And their operations are smoother. But we've done two 10 nights at WDW in the past 16 months, so we won't be back for a few years. We dislike Disney Springs which is too much like an outdoor shopping mall....Epic will present a challenge to us, though. We love everything close together, so once Epic opens we'll probably just spend a couple long days in that park, and enjoy the amenities of 'traditional Universal' campus for the remainder of our vacation. We'll do Epic like we do WDW parks, namely long days in the park. But with IOA and Studios we do 'casual' days in the park of only 6 or 7 hours a day, with afternoons in the pools or restaurant/bars. That's the primary reason, that in the past, we preferred Universal over Disney. No planning, leisurely relaxing vacation, at a slow enjoyable pace. The attractions are excellent, and just about equal overall, at Universal & Disney. It's the relaxing ambiance that gives Universal the win for us.
- Nov 5, 2021
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The pandemic created a lot of uncertainty around the Epic Universe project. It suddenly became unclear what they would even be investing in by building this new park. What would the world look like on the other side?
They were going around cancelling contracts and having contractors destroy the IPs they were working on so they didn’t get stolen or sold illegally. Things were dead in the water.
The fact that, after the hiatus, they decided to push forward with the Epic project is a huge indication of how they feel about investing in their business.
Because, yeah, the cost of all that capital went WAY up after they got back to work. It’s a guarantee that the project is over budget. Everyone will be very happy when it’s finally ready and they can start making their money back!
Then, hopefully, we’ll see our complaints addressed at USF and IOA. Fingers crossed.
They were going around cancelling contracts and having contractors destroy the IPs they were working on so they didn’t get stolen or sold illegally. Things were dead in the water.
The fact that, after the hiatus, they decided to push forward with the Epic project is a huge indication of how they feel about investing in their business.
Because, yeah, the cost of all that capital went WAY up after they got back to work. It’s a guarantee that the project is over budget. Everyone will be very happy when it’s finally ready and they can start making their money back!
Then, hopefully, we’ll see our complaints addressed at USF and IOA. Fingers crossed.
- Jul 24, 2018
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I remember mid-pandemic when people were worried that the park would be outright canceled. We've come a long way!
I've been pretty critical about Universal, gave them praise when they reopened Cafe La Bamba and then unfortunately bashed them when the quality/service dropped dramatically. I know I can be very critical, but I also certainly aren't turning a blind eye to the good.
The continued investment in their current parks is great, but it's undoubtedly being hampered by closures with no replacements in sight (Poseidon's*) and/or lackluster experiences that may or may not meet the quality that we come to expect from Universal (1/2 of DreamWorks/Minions Land). Definitely more good than bad though.
While a lot of the operational changes are temporary, my worry is that an executive keeps it that way. Same with Kong, you don't think there's a slide deck out there with a list of potential changes to other experiences to reduce cost?
Thankfully we are finally seeing more consistent hours this summer, hopefully they do the same outside the summer.
There's still a long list of items they need to address, and those items will only grow exponentially in 2025.
*I'm ok with Poseidon's closure, just think additional entertainment needs to be provided in the land or elsewhere to make up for its loss. IOA is in desperate need of entertainment.
- Jun 21, 2016
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So once EU opens, they’ll have enough cash flow for glasses at minions again?
I understand their reductions of running both sides in particular rides at certain times and said as much. It’s not just labor- it’s wear and tear on the ride itself which also comes at a cost.
But glasses… I legitimately don’t know what moron is behind the decision to take rides that were developed for years specifically to have glasses take glasses away and make the rides significantly worse.
That’s all simply dumb decision making. Not budget.
I would imagine it will be similar to how most (not at Aventura or Cabana Bay) would visit Volcano Bay. With the added benefit of not being wet.
You could easily start the morning at EU and come back at or just after lunchtime. That’s what we do at least 2 mornings of each trip at volcano bay.
The good thing about the “traditional campus” and on-site hotels with express there is you can easily enjoy IOA or USF in the evening with city walk. No need to commit your entire day to EU as a long park day a la WDW.
And as far as EU at night- a volcano bay morning until early lunch, head back to shower at hotel and rest an hr, then off to EU for an early dinner and nighttime at park sounds like a pretty awesome day to me
