Wizarding World - Diagon Alley Discussion - Part 3

[Mad Dog]

I said explicitly in my last post that if there wasnt a hard time sustaining TM's hours, I wouldnt even be questioning it. It has little to do with ride lines or capacity on its own...its all about that in conjunction with the most important thing, the lack of need for TM's compared to an average summer.

My thoughts on that is that Uni didn't want to be under prepared on staffing like they were in 2010 and probably just naturally over compensated on hiring and were just "guessing" on staff in case the crowd flow was a problem. Better to have too many than not enough. But with the size of the Studio as opposed to the IOA narrow pathways, crowd flow seems to not be a problem. Just a small correction on Transformers, the execs said the increase was 25% in the months after the opening....Tyler: Heh, usually I agree with you since you have many astute observations, but I think you're putting to much emphasis on them over hiring people. Touring Plan's crowd estimate statistics are usually right on, and while they have downgraded WDW summer crowds, they still basically have all 8, 9, or 10 for Universal till school is back.

 

[TylerDurden]

My thoughts on that is that Uni didn't want to be under prepared on staffing like they were in 2010 and probably just naturally over compensated on hiring and were just "guessing" on staff in case the crowd flow was a problem. Better to have too many than not enough. But with the size of the Studio as opposed to the IOA narrow pathways, crowd flow seems to not be a problem. Just a small correction on Transformers, the execs said the increase was 25% in the months after the opening....Tyler: Heh, usually I agree with you since you have many astute observations, but I think you're putting to much emphasis on them over hiring people. Touring Plan's crowd estimate statistics are usually right on, and while they have downgraded WDW summer crowds, they still basically have all 8, 9, or 10 for Universal till school is back.

Yeah, I mean I understand that, but the idealist in me wants to think that Universal wouldnt do that because it screws over their employees counting on getting x amount of hours a week. Not to mention there is a difference between cutting hours and not scheduling for the given week. But I get your point.

As to Transformers...I havent heard the 25% figure, but you said in the months following opening...does that mean the summer was 25% more crowded than the last summer? And is that different from the overall annual increase? I couldve sworn I saw 10 somewhere (still pretty hefty) but Im not entirely sure.

 

[shiekra38]

My thoughts on that is that Uni didn't want to be under prepared on staffing like they were in 2010 and probably just naturally over compensated on hiring and were just "guessing" on staff in case the crowd flow was a problem. Better to have too many than not enough. But with the size of the Studio as opposed to the IOA narrow pathways, crowd flow seems to not be a problem. Just a small correction on Transformers, the execs said the increase was 25% in the months after the opening....Tyler: Heh, usually I agree with you since you have many astute observations, but I think you're putting to much emphasis on them over hiring people. Touring Plan's crowd estimate statistics are usually right on, and while they have downgraded WDW summer crowds, they still basically have all 8, 9, or 10 for Universal till school is back.

Good point..definitely saw more implementation of crowd control and Universal knowing what they were doing this time around...also..The Studios are much more equipped to handle large crowds (HHN Hello)

Yeah, I mean I understand that, but the idealist in me wants to think that Universal wouldnt do that because it screws over their employees counting on getting x amount of hours a week. Not to mention there is a difference between cutting hours and not scheduling for the given week. But I get your point.

As to Transformers...I havent heard the 25% figure, but you said in the months following opening...does that mean the summer was 25% more crowded than the last summer? And is that different from the overall annual increase? I couldve sworn I saw 10 somewhere (still pretty hefty) but Im not entirely sure.

I think you are on to something though..while I don't believe DA is a failure by any means, I do think it is suffering from the Disneyland effect...Grand opening for DL was a disaster, the media reported roads were going to be closed and pandemonium in the park..attendance was awful for a while..then the guests started to arrive much later in the game..Uni played their cards right on this one in my opinion..being over prepared, releasing an opening date very close to the date, and realizing that summer gives them a bump anyway..
It's funny I was having a conversation with someone the other day and was wearing my Universal shirt (of course)..she said she visited Hogsmede and couldn't wait to visit DA, but she just couldn't right now..I think we are right to believe this fall and winter may be big

 

[Mad Dog]

Yeah, I mean I understand that, but the idealist in me wants to think that Universal wouldnt do that because it screws over their employees counting on getting x amount of hours a week. Not to mention there is a difference between cutting hours and not scheduling for the given week. But I get your point.

As to Transformers...I havent heard the 25% figure, but you said in the months following opening...does that mean the summer was 25% more crowded than the last summer? And is that different from the overall annual increase? I couldve sworn I saw 10 somewhere (still pretty hefty) but Im not entirely sure.

Sometime in the fall of 2013 (Can't remember the exact date) one of the top Comcast/Universal execs said the Studio's had experienced a 25% attendance increase in the months following the opening of Transformers. That figure was then quoted in a number of press statements....The thing with the Studio is that there is so much space for crowds to disperse to, the park could seem moderate in attendance when it actually has a high attendance, wheras IOA, with it's narrow pathways, always seems crowded. That's why I always give a lot of credence to Touring Plans since their crowd software program is nearly flawless....Bottom line though, we're all just making educated guesses. Only the high level Universal executives really know what the true attendance is.

 

[Skubersky]

A couple quick observations from our Touring Plans statistics:

Uni & USF in particular are doing a great job of spreading the crowds out. Wait times for Transformers, Rockit, DM, Mummy, and even ET are trending higher vs last year, even with DA to soak up crowds.

Attendance across Uni seems up, though not quite as stratospheric as predicted. But crowds at the same time seem noticeably lower at WDW, especially at Epcot and DAK.

Uni engaged in TM scheduling overkill during DA's opening weeks to avoid accusations of understaffing. I think we're seeing staffing settle down to more sustainable levels, but there are still a lot more shifts to go around than this time last year.

Finally, Gringotts waits have still been averaging over 2 hrs for most of the day and peaking at 300 minutes. Even at 50% capacity that represents 2k-5k people in line at any one time. If the MK Frozen M&G had the same number of people in its queue, it would have a 6-15 hour wait!

 

[TylerDurden]

Attendance across Uni seems up, though not quite as stratospheric as predicted. But crowds at the same time seem noticeably lower at WDW, especially at Epcot and DAK.

Uni engaged in TM scheduling overkill during DA's opening weeks to avoid accusations of understaffing. I think we're seeing staffing settle down to more sustainable levels, but there are still a lot more shifts to go around than this time last year.

Ok, thats all I was getting at...thats what it seems like to me. I think that that would also have to do with the hours getting cut (which, to me, is different from revising schedules).

Thanks for your input! That kind of stuff is really interesting, and its good to hear some solid info rather than mere speculation about whats what.

 

[shiekra38]

A couple quick observations from our Touring Plans statistics:

Uni & USF in particular are doing a great job of spreading the crowds out. Wait times for Transformers, Rockit, DM, Mummy, and even ET are trending higher vs last year, even with DA to soak up crowds.

Attendance across Uni seems up, though not quite as stratospheric as predicted. But crowds at the same time seem noticeably lower at WDW, especially at Epcot and DAK.

Uni engaged in TM scheduling overkill during DA's opening weeks to avoid accusations of understaffing. I think we're seeing staffing settle down to more sustainable levels, but there are still a lot more shifts to go around than this time last year.

Finally, Gringotts waits have still been averaging over 2 hrs for most of the day and peaking at 300 minutes. Even at 50% capacity that represents 2k-5k people in line at any one time. If the MK Frozen M&G had the same number of people in its queue, it would have a 6-15 hour wait!

Good to hear...personally I liked the TM overkill..it seemed to keep a lot of TMs around for help/conversation which is a missing element these days in a lot of parks...however I imagine it costs a whole lot...Again..USF is a more developed park in my opinion so the focus is not necessarily so much on Potter, and there is more to do...

 

[cheeseheadwi]

Finally, Gringotts waits have still been averaging over 2 hrs for most of the day and peaking at 300 minutes. Even at 50% capacity that represents 2k-5k people in line at any one time.

When you say it's at 50% capacity, are you factoring in down times? If not, and it's down half of the time, then it'd actually be running at 25% capacity.

 

[Mad Dog]

This has turned into a pretty good discussion........... Mr. Kubersky: Thanks for clearing up the staffing questions..........One other thing. Do we realize that Diagon/Gringotts/HE has only been officially open for two weeks? Seems like many months from our discussions. I'm sure the next six months will answer many of our questions...........Where's HTF? Would love to get his inside insight.

 

[martymcflyy85]

Since Hogwarts express takes you from one park to the other, how will that work when the 2 parks close at different times? Will the train shut down as soon as the first park closes? Or will it give you a round trip back? How will that work?

 

[TylerDurden]

Since Hogwarts express takes you from one park to the other, how will that work when the 2 parks close at different times? Will the train shut down as soon as the first park closes? Or will it give you a round trip back? How will that work?

I think that maybe different closing times between parks may be a thing of the past...I mean it stands to reason that now that 2 parks have HP the demand is the same and therefore the hours will be the same, right? Although Universal does have to wait until dark to close for Cinematic, if IOA ends up getting a nighttime show as well thats even more reason for the two parks to have the same hours.

As far as HHN goes and what they'll do in between now and the premiere of IOA's show...Im not sure. I guess HE will close down whenever the earlier park closes, or even a little before so there isnt a huge queue build up.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

They're still discussing what to do with DA, HE, and HHN.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think that maybe different closing times between parks may be a thing of the past...I mean it stands to reason that now that 2 parks have HP the demand is the same and therefore the hours will be the same, right? Although Universal does have to wait until dark to close for Cinematic, if IOA ends up getting a nighttime show as well thats even more reason for the two parks to have the same hours.

As far as HHN goes and what they'll do in between now and the premiere of IOA's show...Im not sure. I guess HE will close down whenever the earlier park closes, or even a little before so there isnt a huge queue build up.

You may be on to something. Universal, just recently, changed August & Sept. non HHN, closing hours so that they are identical, which is a departure from the past and the closing hours they posted just a few weeks ago.

 

[TylerDurden]

They're still discussing what to do with DA, HE, and HHN.

Im not sure what specifically youre referring to but Gringotts is 100% confirmed to be closed during HHN along with the rest of Diagon. And they really cant operate the train during HHN because there'd be nowhere to go at that time lol.

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You may be on to something. Universal, just recently, changed August & Sept. non HHN, closing hours so that they are identical, which is a departure from the past and the closing hours they posted just a few weeks ago.

Yeah thats interesting; definitely not how it has always been...but usually its only a 1-2 hour difference right? I always thought it would make more sense and just be easier on the resort in general to have both parks have the same hours.

 

[martymcflyy85]

This also brings up the question of what if you are in the line for Gringotts when the park closes at 5 due to HHN? And what if that line is 2 hours long and then you exit at 7 or so?

 

[Mad Dog]

Im not sure what specifically youre referring to but Gringotts is 100% confirmed to be closed during HHN along with the rest of Diagon. And they really cant operate the train during HHN because there'd be nowhere to go at that time lol.

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Yeah thats interesting; definitely not how it has always been...but usually its only a 1-2 hour difference right? I always thought it would make more sense and just be easier on the resort in general to have both parks have the same hours.

Yes, just last week they were listing IOA at 7 and Studios at 8:30. Now they're both listed as 8:30. That's great for us since we'll finally be able to enjoy IOA in the dark when we visit in Sept. Hogsmeade & IOA are really beautiful in the evening.

 

[TylerDurden]

This also brings up the question of what if you are in the line for Gringotts when the park closes at 5 due to HHN? And what if that line is 2 hours long and then you exit at 7 or so?

Same thing as theyre doing now...shut the line down early to make sure the last people in line are out before 6.

 

[Mad Dog]

Looks like the parks did well during the second quarter and there was no large delay of guests visiting like in 2010. From the Orlando Sentinel today "Higher attendance & per capita spending at Universal Orlando & Comcast's other theme parks drove a 12.8% year over year jump in second quarter revenue, the company reported Tuesday." (Japan also had a July opening of HP)........HTF just posted this on WDW Magic, "opening day of Diagon Alley double the number of guests entered USF than what did on June 18 phase 1(IOA)"....Great crowd control by Uni. Who would have thought that?

 

[UNIrd]

Looks like the parks did well during the second quarter and there was no large delay of guests visiting like in 2010. From the Orlando Sentinel today "Higher attendance & per capita spending at Universal Orlando & Comcast's other theme parks drove a 12.8% year over year jump in second quarter revenue, the company reported Tuesday." (Japan also had a July opening of HP)........HTF just posted this on WDW Magic, "opening day of Diagon Alley double the number of guests entered USF than what did on June 18 phase 1(IOA)"....Great crowd control by Uni. Who would have thought that?

I believe that. Universal's preparedness and crowd control has just been on another level. They weren't going to let another 6/18/10 happen.

 

[sjago13]

This also brings up the question of what if you are in the line for Gringotts when the park closes at 5 due to HHN? And what if that line is 2 hours long and then you exit at 7 or so?

They could always put you on the hogwash express and make you exit through ioa. But then people could take advantage and use it as a way to get into the other park without the upgrade.