Attendance Tracker

[Galaxy Defender]

It was a bit over three weeks ago that Disneyland divorced WDW. In doing so their president said:

Michael was diplomatic but very clear in explaining that the other parks around the world have had either flat or slightly lower attendance for the year, with weak earnings at the other properties.

But the Anaheim property has roared through the 60th Anniversary with record crowds and increased spending by those crowds.

This article from Mice chat goes on to talk about adding 2000 hotel rooms with high occupancy rates.

Most of the good news for Q2 domestic Disney parks is from DL. These numbers would be terrible if it was just WDW. This is why DL got out ahead of the report.

 

[Mad Dog]

It was a bit over three weeks ago that Disneyland divorced WDW. In doing so their president said:

Michael was diplomatic but very clear in explaining that the other parks around the world have had either flat or slightly lower attendance for the year, with weak earnings at the other properties.

But the Anaheim property has roared through the 60th Anniversary with record crowds and increased spending by those crowds.

This article from Mice chat goes on to talk about adding 2000 hotel rooms with high occupancy rates.

Most of the good news for Q2 domestic Disney parks is from DL. These numbers would be terrible if it was just WDW. This is why DL got out ahead of the report.

:thumbsup: Exactly

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Ok guys enough about WDWM. Let the drama stay there.

 

[IzzyB]

One proof of not as many people showing up as they wanted is that they lifted almost every single cast member blackout date this summer. If there's too many people in the parks, you're going to limit CM's in the parks, like they did in the past.

I agree. I think they wanted stable attendance, they didn't want summer to turn into off season crowds. This is not all about the variable pricing or the passholder restructure. This is more about Brazil, raises prices to the point some are priced out of the market, lack of new things, and some people delaying vacations because of upcoming projects (HP Phase 1 effect).

 

[OLSinFLA]

For now Disney is trapped. If attendance keeps dropping, they have to raise prices to keep showing an increase in income/profits. But by increasing prices, even more people will stop coming, which will lead into the next round of price increases....

 

[Galaxy Defender]

For now Disney is trapped. If attendance keeps dropping, they have to raise prices to keep showing an increase in income/profits. But by increasing prices, even more people will stop coming, which will lead into the next round of price increases....

Known as a death spiral. If WDW finally gives up some profits to increase attendance that upsets their bosses/stockholders and risks their jobs.

It could happen. Disney's movie division is doing so well it could take the pressure off the domestic parks to be the cash cow for the company.

 

[Mad Dog]

Known as a death spiral. If WDW finally gives up some profits to increase attendance that upsets their bosses/stockholders and risks their jobs.

It could happen. Disney's movie division is doing so well it could take the pressure off the domestic parks to be the cash cow for the company.

And Disney's P&R Executive compensation bonuses are based on P&R profit. So they keep pursuing polices of raising prices, cutting costs to keep those big bonus checks coming. But that's really bad for long term prospects.....But the movie division is generally a cyclical business, which complicates matters.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

But the movie division is generally a cyclical business, which complicates matters.

Movie profits buys Disney time before the reckoning. So has recent success at DL. Disney's theme park used to be about 15% of the core business but generated 40% of the profits. The bulk of that came from Walt Disney World. I am guessing at some point heads will roll.

 

[Mad Dog]

Movie profits buys Disney time before the reckoning. So has recent success at DL. Disney's theme park used to be about 15% of the core business but generated 40% of the profits. The bulk of that came from Walt Disney World. I am guessing at some point heads will roll.

Short of Iger, just about everyone at the top PR positions have been pushed out the last three years. The replacements will fail too unless the direction is changed.

 

[Yabbadabba Doh]

It was a bit over three weeks ago that Disneyland divorced WDW

I'm also wondering now about FP+ and if DL can pull back from implementation.
They had always been resistant based on their higher percentage of APs and locals and I would think now that they have more say over their property they may not pursue it.
FP+ & Magicbands - what a waste of $$$

 

[Galaxy Defender]

I'm also wondering now about FP+ and if DL can pull back from implementation.
They had always been resistant based on their higher percentage of APs and locals and I would think now that they have more say over their property they may not pursue it.
FP+ & Magicbands - what a waste of $$$

The Mice chat article says they plan the opposite.

DL is actively pursuing a massive expansion of the Fastpass system in Anaheim in 2017, adding a dozen additional rides to the Fastpass program and moving to an app based system for day-of ride reservations.

Apparently they tried a FP+ expansion years before with disastrous results. Supposedly they learned their lesson and are trying it again. I posted a link to this article when I first mentioned it weeks ago but since I'm bringing it up again here's a link to it if you want to read it.

Disneyland Rumor Update - Marvel Land and Tower Retheme

 

[Yabbadabba Doh]

Thanks, I read that article the other day, must have missed that section.
I do remember all the issues they had with the old system.
Will be interesting, once SWL comes on line and they start expanding FL

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Thanks, I read that article the other day, must have missed that section.
I do remember all the issues they had with the old system.
Will be interesting, once SWL comes on line and they start expanding FL

That article is packed with information. I keep referencing back to it.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Known as a death spiral. If WDW finally gives up some profits to increase attendance that upsets their bosses/stockholders and risks their jobs.

It could happen. Disney's movie division is doing so well it could take the pressure off the domestic parks to be the cash cow for the company.

I'm pessimistic on the leadership of WDW but I'd hardly call it a death spiral.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

I'm pessimistic on the leadership of WDW but I'd hardly call it a death spiral.

I was definitely not referring to Walt Disney World as in a death spiral. All they have to do is sacrificing profit to increase attendance. I was just referring to the process of lower attendance meaning raising prices which means lower attendance which means raising their prices until the system gives out.

Obamacare is a good example of a potential death spiral. The fear was if not enough people signed up the rates will go up. If rates went up then less people would sign up. On and on until the system buckled. Not a political statement, just an example of how a financial death spiral works.

 

[SeventyOne]

I believe WDW made a mistake trying to make each park so different. They should have just kept building parks with different castles in the middle, with a variety of different lands surrounding it and plenty of rides. The other parks ended up with a lack of rides and a lack of a Disney feel, at least compared to Magic Kingdom and Disneyland.

I have read that guest satisfaction for Animal Kingdom is higher if people went to it before Magic Kingdom. When you go after Magic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom is a let down.

While I disagree with your basic premise, I do agree a lack of rides is the biggest issue. MK has 8 - 10 "E-ticket rides" (only 2 of which are coasters, mild at that). DAK has 4--and one is a real coaster, one too scary for the under 6 crowd, and one gets you soaked.

Lack of rides makes the parks feel stale, but also drives up lines--the #2 complaint I hear behind cost. MM+ and staffing cuts may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. The U.S. demographic for WDW is relatively limited, and most of them have been here before. They know Pirates and Mansion didn't used to have hour waits, and aren't inclined to wait 3 hours for a kiddie coaster.

That's an issue that a Brazilian economic comeback or the gator attack slipping from people's minds is not going to fix.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

While I disagree with your basic premise, I do agree a lack of rides is the biggest issue. MK has 8 - 10 "E-ticket rides" (only 2 of which are coasters, mild at that). DAK has 4--and one is a real coaster, one too scary for the under 6 crowd, and one gets you soaked.

Lack of rides makes the parks feel stale, but also drives up lines--the #2 complaint I hear behind cost. MM+ and staffing cuts may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. The U.S. demographic for WDW is relatively limited, and most of them have been here before. They know Pirates and Mansion didn't used to have hour waits, and aren't inclined to wait 3 hours for a kiddie coaster.

That's an issue that a Brazilian economic comeback or the gator attack slipping from people's minds is not going to fix.

Agree completely.

Disney was successful with Disneyland and it's clones like Magic Kingdom. As it started building other styles of parks the attendance of those parks was much less. I just think they should have stuck with what worked best.

 

[Mad Dog]

Touring Plans is reporting that WDW is offering annual pass holders discounted Park Hopper tickets- 1 day Park Hopper for $79 up to 6 guests. Offer good until Sept. 30th.........Well, I guess Disney is really trying to keep their parks uncrowded for better guest enjoyment. ...Well, so much for that Disney BS explanation for attendance being down. First they lifted almost all CM blackout dates. Now this big time special to get more attendance. Bottom line. They want more attendance and aren't getting it. :cry:

 

[Frank Drackman]

Touring Plans is reporting that WDW is offering annual pass holders discounted Park Hopper tickets- 1 day Park Hopper for $79 up to 6 guests. Offer good until Sept. 30th.........Well, I guess Disney is really trying to keep their parks uncrowded for better guest enjoyment. ...Well, so much for that Disney BS explanation for attendance being down. First they lifted almost all CM blackout dates. Now this big time special to get more attendance. Bottom line. They want more attendance and aren't getting it. :cry:

Yeah, I saw a headline on a news feed that mentioned deep discounts for WDW passholders on park hoppers, but I did not read the article. I would think APH folks wouldn't need tickets, I mean I assume summer is over now or soon for folks with blackouts. I see you mentioned they can get multiple, so I guess they are hoping passholders will seek out friends to get tickets for.

I guess I'm just surprised they didn't offer FL residents something similar as I would think that would work better....hey, shouldn't surge pricing drop when attendance is low and not be priced based on a dates you set a year in advance?

I think it's been close to four years since we have been to Disney, but I've been hearing that they've resorted to raising sit down restaurant cost while really shrinking portions...it's just been odd lately as folks I would consider being hardcore fans seem to be talking differently this year than the way they played things up last year.

For me, I think the final straw was when the eleminated the child's price on APs which, along with the increase in pass cost was just too much all at once. I admit our last visit was b4 fast pass+, but our Disney vacations really were feeling stressful...somehow our UNI trips feel like vacations and for some reason I always felt like I needed a vacation after a trip to Disney.

I do hope UNI keeps options that I find value in as well as maintaining the feel of a relaxing vacation!

 

[UNIrd]

But the Anaheim property has roared through the 60th Anniversary with record crowds and increased spending by those crowds.

And they did it with an attraction layover, new fireworks, new parade, new shows, and their marketing machine working overtime magic. Not a single true new attraction and actually.. with a few ugly closures thanks to Star Wars construction.