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Caribbean Beach Expansion

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,884
Orlando
This was first posted over on Magic this morning by danlb_2000. The project is scheduled to begin in 2017 and conclude in 2019.

There have been some indications recently that a CBR expansion was on the way and now we have confirmation. A permit was filed today with the South Florida Water Management District for Project 88 at Caribbean Beach.

I have marked in red on this plan the locations of 7 new buildings including what I assume will be a multi-level main building which will replace some of the existing buildings. The expansion pad in the lower right will also get one large building but will mostly be taken up by a new storm water retention pond. It also looks like there will be a re-alignment of Cherlonia Parkway where it meets Buena Vista Drive so it no long lines up with Backstage Lane. The second drawing shows the outlines of the work areas.


 

UNIrd

Premium Member
Jul 18, 2008
6,409
Wow. I didn't see that coming. Caribbean Beach is huge already as it is.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,884
Orlando
Wow. I didn't see that coming. Caribbean Beach is huge already as it is.
It's actually not an expansion after further review... all of Barbados is being demoed along with half of a neighboring area.

Tower structure, moved ponds and overall resort stuff to replace.
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
20,280
Pittsburgh area
I always liked this resort and usually stayed there. Sounds like this is really going to lessen the ambiance. Wondering why they're tearing down and replacing instead of just putting a multi story up somewhere else. There's lots of unused land there. I'm wondering if there was some deterioration in those buildings that are coming down. That was a swampy area of the resort.
 
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Andysol

Veteran Member
Jun 21, 2016
3,765
I simply don't see how they'll be able to call this a "deluxe" without expanding the water to allow for boat access to Epcot/DHS. If they do that, is be interested to stay. Otherwise, it better be a pool similar to stormalong bay.

Otherwise, it's going to be hard to sell a moderate even if they "drop" their price to $130pp. If the point chart is along the lines of an animal kingdom value room or Boardwalk standard room (9-10 points per night in value & choice season) then I could see myself staying here. If it's 15 points per room or more, this will really hurt the existing properties availability at 7 months.

So beyond the initial cost per point, the point chart will also dictate a significant impact here.

Thinking on it more- they won't have to drop their ridiculous prices if they have cheaper point costs. For example, Polynesian studios are 118 points for a week in the cheapest season. If Caribbean beach comes in at 70-80 points, you would need ~30% less initial points. That's a way they could "sell" people on this resort. You don't need 150 points, just 100, etc.
 
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Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,884
Orlando
I simply don't see how they'll be able to call this a "deluxe" without expanding the water to allow for boat access to Epcot/DHS. If they do that, is be interested to stay. Otherwise, it better be a pool similar to stormalong bay.

Otherwise, it's going to be hard to sell a moderate even if they "drop" their price to $130pp. If the point chart is along the lines of an animal kingdom value room or Boardwalk standard room (9-10 points per night in value & choice season) then I could see myself staying here. If it's 15 points per room or more, this will really hurt the existing properties availability at 7 months.

So beyond the initial cost per point, the point chart will also dictate a significant impact here.

Thinking on it more- they won't have to drop their ridiculous prices if they have cheaper point costs. For example, Polynesian studios are 118 points for a week in the cheapest season. If Caribbean beach comes in at 70-80 points, you would need ~30% less initial points. That's a way they could "sell" people on this resort. You don't need 150 points, just 100, etc.
Think about it this way... besides the amenities that make it a DVC resort, how is Old Key West much of a Deluxe? This is the same thing. They'll add the DVC stuff, separate from the hotel and add a separate check-in.

I mean really, how would a plussed CBR be much different from OKW?
 

Andysol

Veteran Member
Jun 21, 2016
3,765
Think about it this way... besides the amenities that make it a DVC resort, how is Old Key West much of a Deluxe? This is the same thing. They'll add the DVC stuff, separate from the hotel and add a separate check-in.

I mean really, how would a plussed CBR be much different from OKW?
Well, at the time- 26 years ago- it was incredible. Surrounded by a golf course, 1,005 square foot one bedrooms- 2 bedrooms, grand villas, full kitchens with washers and dryers, etc. It, at the time, offered more than any of the other resorts did in terms of room amenities and proximity to golfing to give it that "home away from home" feeling. So now, today? Sure. The contemporary is also awful today outside of a monorail going through it.
But to compete with the likes of their last 3 resorts they've constructed- the last finished one which hasnt been selling like before- it is going to fall very short if there is no easier way to transfer to a park. Like I said, the only thing that will make it appealing is either A) ammenities or B) point cost per night

But to bring it all back to your point- if Old Key West opened today- with what the other offerings are now- do you think it would be the resounding success it was in 1991? No chance. Thats what CBR will be if they don't significantly plus (or discount) it.
 
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SkiBum

Veteran Member
Dec 14, 2012
1,611
Cincinnati, OH
Well, at the time- 26 years ago- it was incredible. Surrounded by a golf course, 1,005 square foot one bedrooms- 2 bedrooms, grand villas, full kitchens with washers and dryers, etc. It, at the time, offered more than any of the other resorts did in terms of room amenities and proximity to golfing to give it that "home away from home" feeling. So now, today? Sure. The contemporary is also awful today outside of a monorail going through it.
But to compete with the likes of their last 3 resorts they've constructed- the last finished one which hasnt been selling like before- it is going to fall very short if there is no easier way to transfer to a park. Like I said, the only thing that will make it appealing is either A) ammenities or B) point cost per night

But to bring it all back to your point- if Old Key West opened today- with what the other offerings are now- do you think it would be the resounding success it was in 1991? No chance. Thats what CBR will be if they don't significantly plus (or discount) it.
I wonder if they will go the direction of having a "moderate" DVC? Like you mentioned above, reduce the point cost per night? I can see them doing this with POR and Coronado as well.
 

Andysol

Veteran Member
Jun 21, 2016
3,765
I wonder if they will go the direction of having a "moderate" DVC? Like you mentioned above, reduce the point cost per night? I can see them doing this with POR and Coronado as well.
It would make sense, something like 12 points per night would be fair in comparison to what else they have. But as Arrogant as Disney is, it will likely be 15-16 per night, which will only make the 7 month window that much more competitive, resulting in a net loss for most existing members. That's my guess.
 
Jan 31, 2013
758
Seems like they are testing the waters, using one of their popular values. If they see sufficient demand, they could then pursue POR and Coronado as well.
Wonder if they would consider a separate bus station for the DVC. That would be a definite plus, especially for this resort.
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
20,280
Pittsburgh area
Seems like they are testing the waters, using one of their popular values. If they see sufficient demand, they could then pursue POR and Coronado as well.
Wonder if they would consider a separate bus station for the DVC. That would be a definite plus, especially for this resort.
Yes, there are a "lot" of bus stops before you even get out of the resort. I always drive unless I'm going to MK.
 

UK-Trigg

Veteran Member
Sep 23, 2012
3,274
UK
It would make sense, something like 12 points per night would be fair in comparison to what else they have. But as Arrogant as Disney is, it will likely be 15-16 per night, which will only make the 7 month window that much more competitive, resulting in a net loss for most existing members. That's my guess.
Nah, I'd still go for AKL for 9 points a night, granted that's for a deluxe studio with in low season buts it's by far the best use of points for me.

I'm a little confused as to how CS DVC will pan out, as I read it the DVC offer cannot be diluted so I don't know how that plays into a moderate resort, I will be watching this one with an inquisitive eye .
 

UNIrd

Premium Member
Jul 18, 2008
6,409
Wasn't Contemporary going to get a major refurb? Was that cancelled or...? I could've sworn I saw concept art but now I'm not sure if I got it confused with LAX. :lol:
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,884
Orlando
Seems like they are testing the waters, using one of their popular values. If they see sufficient demand, they could then pursue POR and Coronado as well.
Wonder if they would consider a separate bus station for the DVC. That would be a definite plus, especially for this resort.
I'd doubt it. Both Saratoga Springs and Old Key West (Both DVC only hotels) are extremely spread out with long bus routes throughout the resort.

I'm a little confused as to how CS DVC will pan out, as I read it the DVC offer cannot be diluted so I don't know how that plays into a moderate resort, I will be watching this one with an inquisitive eye .
Legally, DVC cannot be diluted. This likely means that Disney will use the theme of the resorts to create a more upscale feel at anything built at a moderate. All DVC hotels have to adhere to DVD (Disney Vacation Development) standards or risk losing their timeshare license.
 

JoeCamel

Premium Member
May 20, 2015
6,050
Upper Lower
Seeing as this has turned into a DVC discussion I would like to increase my knowledge,

I have minimal understanding of DVC other than it is a timeshare where you own nothing so I looked at what points cost on the resale market and how many are required at even the lowest "price" resorts. What I see is $600 - $650 a night minimum? Is that right if you buy resale?

On top of that you have to buy a 20 - 30 thousand chunk of points, pay fees and other charges on top? A week at Aulani is $10,000? in the off season?

Please someone break out why this sells? Is it people bought long ago and feel they have to go to use the annual allotment?

I just can't see the value. I assure you I am not trolling I just want to know what the motivation is for all the building TDO is doing to convert rooms to this plan.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
24,884
Orlando
Seeing as this has turned into a DVC discussion I would like to increase my knowledge,

I have minimal understanding of DVC other than it is a timeshare where you own nothing so I looked at what points cost on the resale market and how many are required at even the lowest "price" resorts. What I see is $600 - $650 a night minimum? Is that right if you buy resale?

On top of that you have to buy a 20 - 30 thousand chunk of points, pay fees and other charges on top? A week at Aulani is $10,000? in the off season?

Please someone break out why this sells? Is it people bought long ago and feel they have to go to use the annual allotment?

I just can't see the value. I assure you I am not trolling I just want to know what the motivation is for all the building TDO is doing to convert rooms to this plan.
As someone who is a relative of a DVC owner, we certainly don't pay those prices. Of course you do pay the upfront fees and the yearly fees, but we're going to Aulani this Summer and it certainly is not $10,000... it's just us using our points to rent out a room for the week (plus a few days at the Grand Cali afterwards). In the end, we're getting more from our stays than what we pay in dues, it's airfare that costs the most... but of course we'd be paying that anyway.

We were also early DVC adopters though, so when you consider what we paid for the large amount of points we have compared to what it would cost in todays market, it's an incredible steal and we're glad we bought so many points back when they were cheap.
 
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GAcoaster

V.I.P.
Nov 30, 2012
4,595
Orlando
Wasn't Contemporary going to get a major refurb? Was that cancelled or...? I could've sworn I saw concept art but now I'm not sure if I got it confused with LAX. :lol:
As far as I know, the only plan for Contemporary is the second DVC Bay Lake Tower in the works.
 
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