Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

[GAcoaster]

Wizard of Oz is an evergreen— even people who never saw the movie recognize it. Just about everyone has seen all or part of the movie, or Wicked, or even parodies of it.

I get LOTR has a dedicated following, but it’s no where near as recognizable to most people as any form of Oz would be.

 

[Brian G.]

Wizard of Oz is an evergreen— even people who never saw the movie recognize it. Just about everyone has seen all or part of the movie, or Wicked, or even parodies of it.

I get LOTR has a dedicated following, but it’s no where near as recognizable to most people as any form of Oz would be.

I LOVE LOTR but I agree here.

Oz (mostly thanks to the '39 film) is deeply embedded in our pop culture and language.

 

[Legacy]

It would break the portal concept they have going. Also both LOTR and Wicked need the 20 acres. Splitting it would hurt them both.

Wicked needs space for the Emerald City, Shiz University, Munchkinland, Kiamo Ko. It's important to show all those so that not just Wicked fans recognize the space. If you put Wicked anywhere else you'll have to cut locations or significantly cut the scale.

You can see each location below.


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You absolutely do not need Kiamo Ko. The show barely does anything with it, and the book does little more than have Elpheba mope around the castle. I’d argue you don’t “really” need Munchkinland or Shiz as a full land either. One or the other (and I’m partial to Shiz). The only essential land is Emerald City.

A ride that takes you through the other locations would work.

 

[Brian G.]

You absolutely do not need Kiamo Ko. The show barely does anything with it, and the book does little more than have Elpheba mope around the castle. I’d argue you don’t “really” need Munchkinland or Shiz as a full land either. One or the other (and I’m partial to Shiz). The only essential land is Emerald City.

A ride that takes you through the other locations would work.

Emerald City and Yellow Brick Road. That's it.

 

[Collin]

You absolutely do not need Kiamo Ko. The show barely does anything with it, and the book does little more than have Elpheba mope around the castle. I’d argue you don’t “really” need Munchkinland or Shiz as a full land either. One or the other (and I’m partial to Shiz). The only essential land is Emerald City.

A ride that takes you through the other locations would work.

People are going to have certain expectations. If you can't walk Shiz people will be mad, you can't take the yellow brick road from Munchkinland to the Emerald City? People will be mad. I agree that Kiamo Ko is the easiest to cut and include in a ride, I just don't know what the movie is doing with it yet so it might be cool to see more of but you could also just put it on top of a show building like beast's castle lol. You need to check boxes.

 

[belloq87]

Put me in the camp that thinks Middle-earth would have a bigger draw than Oz.

But it's debatable. I think both THE WIZARD OF OZ and LORD OF THE RINGS (specifically THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, but I'll hear arguments for the entire trilogy being one work) are the defining fantasy films of all time, with more than enough cultural cachet to justify major theme park lands.

 

[Legacy]

People are going to have certain expectations. If you can't walk Shiz people will be mad, you can't take the yellow brick road from Munchkinland to the Emerald City? People will be mad. I agree that Kiamo Ko is the easiest to cut and include in a ride, I just don't know what the movie is doing with it yet so it might be cool to see more of but you could also just put it on top of a show building like beast's castle lol. You need to check boxes.

Shiz is a school, specifically a boarding school, that doesn’t welcome visitors. Canonically, it’s completely reasonable to seclude Shiz (it’s also in Gillikin… so you’re asking for another city). Munchkinland is, broadly speaking, not on good terms with the Emerald City in the Wicked universe either (to the extent there’s a brutal war after Elpheba’s brother takes over as Oz’s emperor and Munchkinland secedes).

But, the most important question, is why do you NEED to go to any of these other lands? What do the backwater slums of Munchkinland provide, attraction-wise, that isn’t grander, more attractive, or reasonably attainable in the Emerald City? Same with Shiz. The EC gives you Wizomania, food, shops, and the foundation for numerous rides.

 

[Brian G.]

Shiz is a school, specifically a boarding school, that doesn’t welcome visitors. Canonically, it’s completely reasonable to seclude Shiz (it’s also in Gillikin… so you’re asking for another city). Munchkinland is, broadly speaking, not on good terms with the Emerald City in the Wicked universe either (to the extent there’s a brutal war after Elpheba’s brother takes over as Oz’s emperor and Munchkinland secedes).

But, the most important question, is why do you NEED to go to any of these other lands? What do the backwater slums of Munchkinland provide, attraction-wise, that isn’t grander, more attractive, or reasonably attainable in the Emerald City? Same with Shiz. The EC gives you Wizomania, food, shops, and the foundation for numerous rides.

Also don't think we need another school of *ahem* wizardry.

 

[Collin]

Shiz is a school, specifically a boarding school, that doesn’t welcome visitors. Canonically, it’s completely reasonable to seclude Shiz (it’s also in Gillikin… so you’re asking for another city). Munchkinland is, broadly speaking, not on good terms with the Emerald City in the Wicked universe either (to the extent there’s a brutal war after Elpheba’s brother takes over as Oz’s emperor and Munchkinland secedes).

But, the most important question, is why do you NEED to go to any of these other lands? What do the backwater slums of Munchkinland provide, attraction-wise, that isn’t grander, more attractive, or reasonably attainable in the Emerald City? Same with Shiz. The EC gives you Wizomania, food, shops, and the foundation for numerous rides.

You're pulling too much from the book that isn't explored in the musical. I am simply saying the fans of this world have locations they will expect to experience and just picking one will make an Oz land feel incomplete.

Also don't think we need another school of *ahem* wizardry.

It's not. There's one class that teaches magic and not just anyone can join.

 

[Brian G.]

You're pulling too much from the book that isn't explored in the musical. I am simply saying the fans of this world have locations they will expect to experience and just picking one will make an Oz land feel incomplete.

Realistically, it's not feasible to expect a single theme park land to offer every possible experience. Each land typically focuses on one specific setting. The only exception is the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, which provides three different settings across three different parks.

It's not. There's one class that teaches magic and not just anyone can join.

C'mon now... we're grasping at straws at this point.

 

[Jake S]

Realistically, it's not feasible to expect a single theme park land to offer every possible experience. Each land typically focuses on one specific setting. The only exception is the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, which provides three different settings across three different parks.

And even that isn't really an exception. Each land is focused on its own thing. A hodgepodge land could work, I guess, but given Universal's success with the Potter format ... I'm good!

 

[Collin]

Realistically, it's not feasible to expect a single theme park land to offer every possible experience. Each land typically focuses on one specific setting. The only exception is the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, which provides three different settings across three different parks.



C'mon now... we're grasping at straws at this point.

I understand there's a question of feasibility, I'm making the point fans will have a set of expectations and I'm sure Universal can find a way to include them if they want. Potter has the benefit all the locations aren't connected by a yellow brick road. Oz is similar to LOTR where you don't want to split the land up because there isn't an in-story reason.

Shiz is very different than Hogwarts and minimizing it to something that it isn't, isn't "grasping at straws". One magic class versus a whole school full of them is different. The overlaps simply come from them both being fantasy franchises.

 

[Brian G.]

I understand there's a question of feasibility, I'm making the point fans will have a set of expectations and I'm sure Universal can find a way to include them if they want. Potter has the benefit all the locations aren't connected by a yellow brick road. Oz is similar to LOTR where you don't want to split the land up because there isn't an in-story reason.

I think you probably need to change "fans" to "I" - because otherwise, you're way off base here.

Shiz is very different than Hogwarts and minimizing it to something that it isn't, isn't "grasping at straws". One magic class versus a whole school full of them is different. The overlaps simply come from them both being fantasy franchises.

Yes - when the GP sees "Welcome to Shiz University, where knowledge meets magic!" - they def won't see the comparisons...

From the author himself:

"With all due respect to my colleagues in the UK ... Wicked was published in 1995, before the first description of Harry Potter’s Hogwarts was published two years later in 1997," Maguire says. "Some fans of Wicked have guessed that Hogwarts inspired Shiz, but chronology doesn’t support that thesis. Philip Pullman’s alternate-reality Oxford in The Golden Compass was published about two months before Wicked, and Shiz seems to me as much like Pullman’s institution of higher learning as anyplace else."

The differences among them make each unique enough to not be considered replicas, yet they all fall within the same spectrum. While Hogwarts leans more heavily on the magical aspect, Shiz incorporates just enough magic that the general public may view it as "another magic school."

 

[Jake S]

Potter has the benefit all the locations aren't connected by a yellow brick road.

come on, man.

 

[Collin]

I think you probably need to change "fans" to "I" - because otherwise, you're way off base here.




Yes - when the GP sees "Welcome to Shiz University, where knowledge meets magic!" - they def won't see the comparisons...

From the author himself:

"With all due respect to my colleagues in the UK ... Wicked was published in 1995, before the first description of Harry Potter’s Hogwarts was published two years later in 1997," Maguire says. "Some fans of Wicked have guessed that Hogwarts inspired Shiz, but chronology doesn’t support that thesis. Philip Pullman’s alternate-reality Oxford in The Golden Compass was published about two months before Wicked, and Shiz seems to me as much like Pullman’s institution of higher learning as anyplace else."

The differences among them make each unique enough to not be considered replicas, yet they all fall within the same spectrum. While Hogwarts leans more heavily on the magical aspect, Shiz incorporates just enough magic that the general public may view it as "another magic school."

I am the one in fan spaces where these conversations are had. So I know what people expect.

I get your point about the GP but that's where Universal has to be creative with the offerings.

come on, man.

What's the problem? Potter can be split up the story supports it. Oz and LOTR don't.

 

[jarmor]

You absolutely do not need Kiamo Ko. The show barely does anything with it, and the book does little more than have Elpheba mope around the castle. I’d argue you don’t “really” need Munchkinland or Shiz as a full land either. One or the other (and I’m partial to Shiz). The only essential land is Emerald City.

A ride that takes you through the other locations would work.

That's why in my bluesky I have you enter through Shiz. Between Shiz and the Emerald City will be a small garden walk that will feature the yellow brick and it would run through the city to what I called the "west" would be be like a combination of the forest/ Kiamo Ko. I felt Munchkinland was kinda a waste because compared to the other environments, it doesn't stand a chance of being as awe inspiring lol.

 

[Brian G.]

Why would anyone wanna visit Shiz besides crossing it off the checklist?

(EDIT: To clarify, why would the GP wanna visit Shiz?)

 

[fryoj]

I have no clue what shiz is, nor do most people, I'm assuming, who haven't seen wicked in some form. Before the movie, I'd wager that's most of Uni's target market. How much the movie will change awareness is still an unknown. I agree with Brian. The vast majority of the park going audience would want to see the yellow brick road and the Emerald City. Maybe munchkinland at the entrance to the land, but I'd think that might create staffing difficulties.


I feel we are on the verge of another nintendo land saga on the board.

 

[jarmor]

Why would anyone wanna visit Shiz besides crossing it off the checklist?

(EDIT: To clarify, why would the GP wanna visit Shiz?)

It's not so much as why would anyone want to visit, it would be more so it's attractions/things to do that will drive people to want to visit.The GP can also say why would I want to visit knockturn alley but the execution warrants visits and repeat visits. Everything doesn't have to already be iconic to become iconic.

 

[Brian G.]

It's not so much as why would anyone want to visit, it would be more so it's attractions/things to do that will drive people to want to visit.The GP can also say why would I want to visit knockturn alley but the execution warrants visits and repeat visits. Everything doesn't have to already be iconic to become iconic.

Thank you for the non-answer. Knockturn is around because it's a part of Diagon, and that speaks for itself. This is more akin to "We need the Shrieking Shack!" during the Hogsmeade expansion talks.

What I'm trying to say is that Universal needs to be strategic with its space. We all agree that Emerald City and the Yellow Brick Road are essential components of any Oz expansion.

For those advocating for the inclusion for Shiz - again...Why? What attractions or activities would make its addition worthwhile other than "Hey, it's a known location in the book/play!"