General Movies & TV Thread

[rageofthegods]

Horror sits in the sweet spot of being cheap to make and having a loyal audience that (until recently) basically turned out for everything. The market for horror is showing signs of oversaturation though, and that's kind of scary - movies that used to open to 15m-20m are now opening 10m-15m or even below.

And yeah, it's a big tragedy that audiences don't turn out for comedies, dramas, thrillers, etc. anymore. Beyond those movies providing variety, it was a great training ground for directors to handle a slightly bigger budget without thrusting them into the blockbuster machine, where they have less control.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Horror sits in the sweet spot of being cheap to make and having a loyal audience that (until recently) basically turned out for everything. The market for horror is showing signs of oversaturation though, and that's kind of scary - movies that used to open to 15m-20m are now opening 10m-15m or even below.

And yeah, it's a big tragedy that audiences don't turn out for comedies, dramas, thrillers, etc. anymore. Beyond those movies providing variety, it was a great training ground for directors to handle a slightly bigger budget without thrusting them into the blockbuster machine, where they have less control.

I can't remember the names but I remember that some directors were saying that making comedies was harder now both because the audiences were bigger and more global and humor is too different for each region and also because studios don't want controversy or people being offended, ( I think the Wayans bros have said that before when a sequel to white chicks is brought up ) I know it was someone else that said it.

 

[rageofthegods]

I can't remember the names but I remember that some directors were saying that making comedies was harder now both because the audiences were bigger and more global and humor is too different for each region and also because studios don't want controversy or people being offended, ( I think the Wayans bros have said that before when a sequel to white chicks is brought up ) I know it was someone else that said it.

Eh, I tend to think the "easy offense" explanation is overblown, especially considering the decline of comedy is happening concurrently with the decline of a bunch of other adult-focused genres. I think it's more that people prefer to stream dramas and comedies at home. And yeah, the lack of international appeal is an issue that gives you less of a safety net if the movie doesn't work.

 

[HandsomePete]

Has anyone else pointed out that 16 of the Top 20 Highest-Grossing Movies at the US box office this year are all sequels/franchise entries? Insane.

I think the only ones that weren't if I'm remembering correctly were Wicked, It Ends With Us, The Wild Robot, and IF.

That’s been the trajectory for the past few years. Look at the top 10 films each year since 2019 and the vast majority coming from Hollywood (i.e. not China) are all IP films. The only original film to break through has been Oppenheimer (not counting stuff like Barbie or Mario).

Our loss as audiences, but people just don’t want to go out to financially support them.

One of my B-tier podcasts that I listen to when the A-tier goes on hiatus delved into this: either a long read or moderate listen...

How Hollywood’s Hit Formula Flopped—and What Could Come Next

The past 18 months have seen a major change in the film industry: The old franchise models have lost their luster, and original films are dominating at the box office. Lucas Shaw joins to explain!

www.theringer.com

One other upside for horror is that it is (or can be) relatively cheap to make. Don't need a headliner like a comedy more or less does these days.

 

[rageofthegods]

One of my B-tier podcasts that I listen to when the A-tier goes on hiatus delved into this: either a long read or moderate listen...

How Hollywood’s Hit Formula Flopped—and What Could Come Next

The past 18 months have seen a major change in the film industry: The old franchise models have lost their luster, and original films are dominating at the box office. Lucas Shaw joins to explain!

www.theringer.com

One other upside for horror is that it is (or can be) relatively cheap to make. Don't need a headliner like a comedy more or less does these days.

I can definitely buy that audiences are craving more original and daring movies (e.g. the miracle runs for The Substance, Longlegs and Civil War, overperformances for We Live In Time, Anora and Conclave, etc), and that's exciting...

...but I do think it's kind of funny to use Dune Part 2 as an example of the original movies audiences want.

 

[UNIrd]

Also, it was wild being at work yesterday and hearing like 7 different people talk about either seeing Wicked, Moana 2, or Gladiator 2. I feel like going to the movies hasn't been a water cooler topic like that in a minute.

But these are event films. By the same token, the studios are doing something right.

 

[pumpkinbot343]

Movie question of the day; whether a film succeeds or fails, who do you credit or blame more: the Director or the writer?

 

[saint.piss]

Movie question of the day; whether a film succeeds or fails, who do you credit or blame more: the Director or the writer?

The director. Whoever the director is, they're the one bringing the script to life. With a lot of movies, during production they change/deviate
from the script a lot. So maybe what was originally a great script ends up turning into a bad movie, or vice versa. Though it's different with every situation. So I guess really it depends on the movie.

 

[rageofthegods]

Movie question of the day; whether a film succeeds or fails, who do you credit or blame more: the Director or the writer?

Both, one or the other, neither... depends on the movie.

A movie can suck because the script sucked, or it was rushed to make a deadline. It could suck because the director was an egomaniac, or they were incompetent and fell behind schedule. It could suck because an idiot studio exec suggested a happy ending that doesn't make sense. It could suck because the producers wanted their nephew in the main role and he can't act. Every movie is it's own thing.

If you're curious, I recommend the WHAT WENT WRONG podcast. It's a fun podcast that dives into disastrous movie productions, both for good movies (A Star is Born, Clueless) and bad ones (Gigli)

 

[Lucky Planet]

The director. Whoever the director is, they're the one bringing the script to life. With a lot of movies, during production they change/deviate
from the script a lot. So maybe what was originally a great script ends up turning into a bad movie, or vice versa. Though it's different with every situation. So I guess really it depends on the movie.

i don't know, I can think of more examples of bad writing than bad directing,
let's see, black Adam, visually it was fine, it had some great scenes,but just terrible plot, or something like the Solo movie, or the Ghostbusters 2016, or Pacific rim 2, the last jedi, the mummy 3, the mummy reboot, star wars prequels, the village, blade 3,

these had good directors that made visually good looking movies with good effects,
and I know you're gonna say that you loved some of these, but the writing wasn't that good,
maybe the effects weren't always great, but they were ruined by bad scripts, they didn't fully deliver, they weren't the best,
( you can even add bad rewrites in here, rewrites count as bad writing ruining the movie)

I can't think of examples of great scripts ruined by bad directors ( I'm not talking about script changes or rewrites, I'm only talking about a movie with an amazing script only ruined by a bad filming alone ) maybe I missed something but which ones?

 

[Jake S]

I can't think of examples of great scripts ruined by bad directors

how would you even know if there was a great script if your primary exposure to it is through the lens of the director, performers and producers that bring the script to life? that's why I think this conversation is kind of pointless. we see the sausage and have precious little insight into how it was made. and when we do hear about how something was made, it's prudent to consider who and what the sources are for that information and what motives they might have.

 

[pumpkinbot343]

i don't know, I can think of more examples of bad writing than bad directing,
let's see, black Adam, visually it was fine, it had some great scenes,but just terrible plot, or something like the Solo movie, or the Ghostbusters 2016, or Pacific rim 2, the last jedi, the mummy 3, the mummy reboot, star wars prequels, the village, blade 3,

these had good directors that made visually good looking movies with good effects,
and I know you're gonna say that you loved some of these, but the writing wasn't that good,
maybe the effects weren't always great, but they were ruined by bad scripts, they didn't fully deliver, they weren't the best,
( you can even add bad rewrites in here, rewrites count as bad writing ruining the movie)

I can't think of examples of great scripts ruined by bad directors ( I'm not talking about script changes or rewrites, I'm only talking about a movie with an amazing script only ruined by a bad filming alone ) maybe I missed something but which ones?

To be fair, the first two bolded were mostly the results of The Rock and Tom Cruise running things, it’s debatable whether M Night Shyamalan is a “good director”; otherwise he would have told Mark Wahlberg and most of the entire cast of the Last Airbender how to actually act; and I think the director of Blade 3 was a writer for DC Comics movies, this was his only directed film.

 

[Lucky Planet]

how would you even know if there was a great script if your primary exposure to it is through the lens of the director, performers and producers that bring the script to life? that's why I think this conversation is kind of pointless. we see the sausage and have precious little insight into how it was made. and when we do hear about how something was made, it's prudent to consider who and what the sources are for that information and what motives they might have.

To be fair, the first two bolded were mostly the results of The Rock and Tom Cruise running things, it’s debatable whether M Night Shyamalan is a “good director”; otherwise he would have told Mark Wahlberg and most of the entire cast of the Last Airbender how to actually act; and I think the director of Blade 3 was a writer for DC Comics movies, this was his only directed film.

yeah just speculating here, and thinking of more examples, (I know that scripts change all the time and things get moved or cut, I know that studios interfere, budgets are cut)

but for example, 2 examples I was thinking about,
the matrix vs matrix 2 and 3 and the dark knight vs dark knight rises,
the matrix and dark knight have pretty good scripts and stories, even if things were changed or cut or altered. had very solid foundations and good plots.
now I happen to really like matrix 2 and dark knight rises, but those stories are flawed. they aren't as good. they weren't as enjoyable, and the direction was as good as the previous movies.

matrix 2 looks just as good as 1, actors are equally good, effects were good for the most part, same with batman... technically everything outside of the story is equally good. the music is equally good, effects are good, acting good, fights very good

but for me in my opinion, the script was at fault. and since the directors didn't change, that's what I noticed. ( the same writer can also have a bad movie like lord of the rings vs the Hobbit,)

it's justy opinion from my experience watching movies that the script can be the problem in a lot of cases.

 

[rageofthegods]

Cobweb is a good script that was incompetently directed. That's one off the top of my head. Script was on the Blacklist and had lots of buzz around it. The movie is just weirdly leaden and oddly paced, and that's almost entirely down to the scene-to-scene editing/direction.