Hawkeye (Disney+)

[pumpkinbot343]

… it doesn’t make much sense; but I ship these two.

They really killed Kingpin? I don’t buy it. If it IS so then darn.

So it was Kate’s mom who hired Yelena to assasinate Clint? What about the jazz with Contessa (Walker’s Agent)?

 

[HORRORable Commenter]

… it doesn’t make much sense; but I ship these two.

They really killed Kingpin? I don’t buy it. If it IS so then darn.

So it was Kate’s mom who hired Yelena to assasinate Clint? What about the jazz with Contessa (Walker’s Agent)?

So agreed, I really hope Phastos is a good first step for LGBT relationships since there's a ton of potential with Cap Marvel, America Chavez, Constantine, and hopefully Bucky, Yelena, and Kate imo.

Spoiler: Hawkeye

Definitely think Kingpin was a varient. Super powerful, really flashy, could be the same but feels different

 

[Nick]

… it doesn’t make much sense; but I ship these two.

They really killed Kingpin? I don’t buy it. If it IS so then darn.

So it was Kate’s mom who hired Yelena to assasinate Clint? What about the jazz with Contessa (Walker’s Agent)?

Spoiler

Look at my post, there’s a compartment from the comics where the scene we saw basically plays out and Kingpin ends up blind. I highly doubt he’s dead.

As for Val, she was SENT to hire Yelena by Elenor, who worked for Kingpin. Basically the chain of command is Kingpin > Maya > Elenor > Val > Yelena.

The people need to be reminded that Fisk runs the city.

 

[Freak]

Hoo boy...

Spoiler: Finale spoilers

Wtf....WTF!!!!!!! You hype us up for Kingpin and you pull a Supreme Leader Snoke on us like this Marvel!!??? WTF!!!!!!!!!!

I loved the Daredevil series and they made Kingpin an intimidating villain! That dude was SCARY. Daredevil who, mind you, had to train his WHOLE LIFE to master the skills he has and could barely take him on. Yet Kate Bishop, someone who had nowhere NEAR the amount of tribulation and trail that Matt Murdoch had to get the skills she has, was able to hand his a$$ over to him in five minutes!??? To add salt to the wound, you even have him just get shot point-blank begging for his life!??

To say I'm disappointed with how the series ended is an understatement. He could've at least killed off Bishop's mom to amp up the severity of his character or show her who she's really messing with. Kingpin is supposed to be SCARY. He is supposed to be someone that would wreck you if you got in his way.

I absolutely REFUSE to believe that they would be stupid enough to tease and hype up Kingpin all of this time and down he goes like a pansy in ONE EPISODE. Even if they are, they still shafted his character by getting hammered by Bishop they way it went down. If he is indeed indeed dead and that was not a warning shot or he was wearing a bullet proof vest.....pathetic how they finally introduced someone who is a Spider-man villain and he gets off'd in one filler show in a Disney+ series.

I have no problem with introducing Kate Bishop into the MCU and using this series to do so, but seeing her fairly easily take down a well-respected villain like that makes me not like her character. Her cockiness was kind of annoying, but the whole Kingpin fight just made it worse to the point to where I wouldn't have minded if she just got killed off.

Outside of the spoilers, I will say that after the finale, this is the weakest of the MCU Disney+ shows for me. By far. Even worse than WandaVision, even worse than Falcon. Look at the spoilers to see why. Uuuuuuggggggghhhh

 

[Nick]

Hoo boy...

Spoiler: Finale spoilers

Wtf....WTF!!!!!!! You hype us up for Kingpin and you pull a Supreme Leader Snoke on us like this Marvel!!??? WTF!!!!!!!!!!

I loved the Daredevil series and they made Kingpin an intimidating villain! That dude was SCARY. Daredevil who, mind you, had to train his WHOLE LIFE to master the skills he has and could barely take him on. Yet Kate Bishop, someone who had nowhere NEAR the amount of tribulation and trail that Matt Murdoch had to get the skills she has, was able to hand his a$$ over to him in five minutes!??? To add salt to the wound, you even have him just get shot point-blank begging for his life!??

To say I'm disappointed with how the series ended is an understatement. He could've at least killed off Bishop's mom to amp up the severity of his character or show her who she's really messing with. Kingpin is supposed to be SCARY. He is supposed to be someone that would wreck you if you got in his way.

I absolutely REFUSE to believe that they would be stupid enough to tease and hype up Kingpin all of this time and down he goes like a pansy in ONE EPISODE. Even if they are, they still shafted his character by getting hammered by Bishop they way it went down. If he is indeed indeed dead and that was not a warning shot or he was wearing a bullet proof vest.....pathetic how they finally introduced someone who is a Spider-man villain and he gets off'd in one filler show in a Disney+ series.

I have no problem with introducing Kate Bishop into the MCU and using this series to do so, but seeing her fairly easily take down a well-respected villain like that makes me not like her character. Her cockiness was kind of annoying, but the whole Kingpin fight just made it worse to the point to where I wouldn't have minded if she just got killed off.

Outside of the spoilers, I will say that after the finale, this is the weakest of the MCU Disney+ shows for me. By far. Even worse than WandaVision, even worse than Falcon. Look at the spoilers to see why. Uuuuuuggggggghhhh

WandaVision and FatWS were great, but I agree this is probably the weakest of the bunch, although I do think the show was serviceable. The writing for Fisk was bad, even though I do think he’s still alive.

 

[pumpkinbot343]

Hoo boy...

Spoiler: Finale spoilers

Wtf....WTF!!!!!!! You hype us up for Kingpin and you pull a Supreme Leader Snoke on us like this Marvel!!??? WTF!!!!!!!!!!

I loved the Daredevil series and they made Kingpin an intimidating villain! That dude was SCARY. Daredevil who, mind you, had to train his WHOLE LIFE to master the skills he has and could barely take him on. Yet Kate Bishop, someone who had nowhere NEAR the amount of tribulation and trail that Matt Murdoch had to get the skills she has, was able to hand his a$$ over to him in five minutes!??? To add salt to the wound, you even have him just get shot point-blank begging for his life!??

To say I'm disappointed with how the series ended is an understatement. He could've at least killed off Bishop's mom to amp up the severity of his character or show her who she's really messing with. Kingpin is supposed to be SCARY. He is supposed to be someone that would wreck you if you got in his way.

I absolutely REFUSE to believe that they would be stupid enough to tease and hype up Kingpin all of this time and down he goes like a pansy in ONE EPISODE. Even if they are, they still shafted his character by getting hammered by Bishop they way it went down. If he is indeed indeed dead and that was not a warning shot or he was wearing a bullet proof vest.....pathetic how they finally introduced someone who is a Spider-man villain and he gets off'd in one filler show in a Disney+ series.

I have no problem with introducing Kate Bishop into the MCU and using this series to do so, but seeing her fairly easily take down a well-respected villain like that makes me not like her character. Her cockiness was kind of annoying, but the whole Kingpin fight just made it worse to the point to where I wouldn't have minded if she just got killed off.

Outside of the spoilers, I will say that after the finale, this is the weakest of the MCU Disney+ shows for me. By far. Even worse than WandaVision, even worse than Falcon. Look at the spoilers to see why. Uuuuuuggggggghhhh

Worse than freakin’ Loki???!!!

Also most of the Kate vs Kingpin was Kingpin curb stomping Kate; and she only won through sheer luck.

WandaVision and FatWS were great, but I agree this is probably the weakest of the bunch, although I do think the show was serviceable. The writing for Fisk was bad, even though I do think he’s still alive.

After seeing how Ulysses Klaue and Quicksilver were handled by writing, the fate of Kingpin isn’t looking too good.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

For D+ shows:

1: Loki
2: Falcon
3: Hawkeye
4: Wandavision
5: What If..?

Hawkeye feels like it falls nearly off of a ravine, outside of performances, action, and some real stand out comedic bits.

 

[Nick]

Worse than freakin’ Loki???!!!

Also most of the Kate vs Kingpin was Kingpin curb stomping Kate; and she only won through sheer luck.




After seeing how Ulysses Klaue and Quicksilver were handled by writing, the fate of Kingpin isn’t looking too good.

Once again…

Spoiler

Even if the Hawkeye writing team meant to kill Jim off, it can be retconned rather easily. Straight out of the comics…

 

[Jerroddragon]

Lol

At people comparing comics to this show. The Comic's have build up, this show just rushed wayyyyyyyyy too many story lines. I don't even know who/why certain characters are in this show.
Like Falcon brought in lots of side people but they had a reason to be there....why the hell was Jack even in this show? Its not a spoiler but he literally has nothing to do with this story and zero lead up to what he is doing after so besides his connection to his comic character I dont get why he is here

Spoiler

I dont like what they did with Kingpin here
Kingpin is scary? Why some kid just beat him. Its right out of Forc Awakins crap....let the new kid beat the big bad because....thats it. All the build up for him to lose his first fight we see him in.
Maya killing or blinding him also is crappy, at the end of her show...fine. But this is not her show and she in no way earned this.

Yen letting Hawkeye go...makes sense but i really dont get how BW are so dangerous it took her way to long to get him weak enough when she could kill him.

Overall all, I dont want who ever wrote this story to ever write in the MCU again. This show was fine but it no where near where I want the story's to be. Spiderman last film is such a celebration of the characters and this show is rushed and just feels like it has no idea what it wants to be. If you enjoyed it cool but this show to me just doesn't have anything interesting to saw or is fun and celebrating any of the characters...its more "MCU" and while i liked characters more in this than say loki, Loki added lots of lore to the MCU and had more fun and celebrated the core character it was about

 

[Nick]

Lol

At people comparing comics to this show. The Comic's have build up, this show just rushed wayyyyyyyyy too many story lines. I don't even know who/why certain characters are in this show.
Like Falcon brought in lots of side people but they had a reason to be there....why the hell was Jack even in this show? Its not a spoiler but he literally has nothing to do with this story and zero lead up to what he is doing after so besides his connection to his comic character I dont get why he is here

Spoiler

I dont like what they did with Kingpin here
Kingpin is scary? Why some kid just beat him. Its right out of Forc Awakins crap....let the new kid beat the big bad because....thats it. All the build up for him to lose his first fight we see him in.
Maya killing or blinding him also is crappy, at the end of her show...fine. But this is not her show and she in no way earned this.

Yen letting Hawkeye go...makes sense but i really dont get how BW are so dangerous it took her way to long to get him weak enough when she could kill him.

Overall all, I dont want who ever wrote this story to ever write in the MCU again. This show was fine but it no where near where I want the story's to be. Spiderman last film is such a celebration of the characters and this show is rushed and just feels like it has no idea what it wants to be. If you enjoyed it cool but this show to me just doesn't have anything interesting to saw or is fun and celebrating any of the characters...its more "MCU" and while i liked characters more in this than say loki, Loki added lots of lore to the MCU and had more fun and celebrated the core character it was about

This show was HEAVILY based on the Matt Fraction Hawkeye run, which was a great comic read. And it was very faithful to it most of the time. So comparing to comics in this instance is not something crazy to do. The problem with the show imo was too many moving parts (ie too many new characters and characters to focus on). Some of it would've been best left for Echo.

Also, how come no one is calling Ned a "Mary Sue" but that's essentially what you're calling Kate? There's literally no logical explanation for what he does and how he does it so fast. At least we can see Kate’s progression throughout this show.

 

[Jerroddragon]

This show was HEAVILY based on the Matt Fraction Hawkeye run, which was a great comic read. And it was very faithful to it most of the time. So comparing to comics in this instance is not something crazy to do.

Then the comic was not worked well into the MCU

I'm just not of the mind that every show/movie can't be amazing. You don't have to just have "fine"entertainment you can go all out and really celebrate what makes people love a hero even.

If this show does that great but this show not once made me feel like when Clint fight Vision or talked to Wanda in the second Avengers film, that is when Clint felt to me like a hero. Standing up to a threat greater than one can beat or helping out basically an enemy from an hour again get past some of the worst kinda trauma, to me is why I started to love the character. I just didn't once feel like that in this show...it felt rushed and forced because we have to have a new Hawkeye. Maybe if we they didn't spend so much time the first two episodes on Kate's drama and got more into the villains and didn't have to time reveals with other films the series could have felt more genuine but to me feels like such a waste and not the way I wanted this hero's story to "end"

 

[Nick]

Then the comic was not worked well into the MCU

I'm just not of the mind that every show/movie can't be amazing. You don't have to just have "fine"entertainment you can go all out and really celebrate what makes people love a hero even.

If this show does that great but this show not once made me feel like when Clint fight Vision or talked to Wanda in the second Avengers film, that is when Clint felt to me like a hero. Standing up to a threat greater than one can beat or helping out basically an enemy from an hour again get past some of the worst kinda trauma, to me is why I started to love the character. I just didn't once feel like that in this show...it felt rushed and forced because we have to have a new Hawkeye. Maybe if we they didn't spend so much time the first two episodes on Kate's drama and got more into the villains and didn't have to time reveals with other films the series could have felt more genuine but to me feels like such a waste and not the way I wanted this hero's story to "end"

Like, I agree that Fisk was supremely underpowered in the episode, but they also made a point to show that he could take many hits and still walk away like it was nothing (hit by a car, electrocuted), so that's why I think he's fine at the end of the episode.

I also think we've become extremely spoiled as a fandom and expect everything to be of extremely high caliber. Of course we want everything to be that, but that's just not a reality and as a fandom, we're lucky the MCU has gone on for 13 years before it had it's first "Rotten" film in Eternals, and honestly Eternals isn't even all that bad, it's just that there's so many characters to introduce and the pacing is odd along with an underwhelming villain. I still think Captain Marvel and Thor 2 are worse, and enjoyed the movie quite a bit on my second viewing.

If you go in with the expectation that everything has to be Endgame or everything has to be some big event series or movie, then you're going to be let down. Shang-Chi was incredible and i'm definitely looking forward to seeing what's ahead for him and the Ten Rings just as I am with Kate Bishop and am extremely curious where they go with Maya/Echo.

 

[belloq87]

I think this was the best of all the Disney+ MCU shows thus far, but what do I know!

 

[Jerroddragon]

Like, I agree that Fisk was supremely underpowered in the episode, but they also made a point to show that he could take many hits and still walk away like it was nothing (hit by a car, electrocuted), so that's why I think he's fine at the end of the episode.

I also think we've become extremely spoiled as a fandom and expect everything to be of extremely high caliber. Of course we want everything to be that, but that's just not a reality and as a fandom, we're lucky the MCU has gone on for 13 years before it had it's first "Rotten" film in Eternals, and honestly Eternals isn't even all that bad, it's just that there's so many characters to introduce and the pacing is odd along with an underwhelming villain. I still think Captain Marvel and Thor 2 are worse, and enjoyed the movie quite a bit on my second viewing.

If you go in with the expectation that everything has to be Endgame or everything has to be some big event series or movie, then you're going to be let down. Shang-Chi was incredible and i'm definitely looking forward to seeing what's ahead for him and the Ten Rings just as I am with Kate Bishop and am extremely curious where they go with Maya/Echo.

It doesn't have to be End Game

Whiles Yes Spiderman is fun because of the villains and nods but what to me makes the film amazing is the message its the journey they have Peter on, its a dam good story. This is not that, its not an amazing story, doesn't have interesting lessons or characters its more because we needed something to fill a month on Disney Plus, I did in no way expect Hawkeye to be HUGE but i wanted heart and wanted them to focus on what makes the character great and why Kate loves this hero more than any other.
If the show can't do that which i do not think it did then it should not have been made. This should have been a celebration of this character and given him a real adventure to go on highlighting who he is

If people feel like this was the best show about this character they could have made, enjoy. But to me this was just not that, I did not feel the love from the creators felt more like a product.

Spoiler

As for Kinpin....he would have broken Kate like a tooth pick. He killed those two guards but couldn't kill Kate or at least wound her enough to stay down? I get Yen she liked Kate bit Kingpin is rage and is mad he would not hold back on someone who just attacked him. Its literally fantasy to make Kate special, even Hawkeye didnt beat Vision...Wanda did because she could

I think this was the best of all the Disney+ MCU shows thus far, but what do I know!

I would love to hear why. Story wise? Action? Characters? Humor? To me besides the argument of characters I don't think it does anything well enough to be called the best but honestly open to hear real reasons why people love this show because I was very disappointed

 

[pumpkinbot343]

Lol

At people comparing comics to this show. The Comic's have build up, this show just rushed wayyyyyyyyy too many story lines. I don't even know who/why certain characters are in this show.
Like Falcon brought in lots of side people but they had a reason to be there....why the hell was Jack even in this show? Its not a spoiler but he literally has nothing to do with this story and zero lead up to what he is doing after so besides his connection to his comic character I dont get why he is here

Spoiler

I dont like what they did with Kingpin here
Kingpin is scary? Why some kid just beat him. Its right out of Forc Awakins crap....let the new kid beat the big bad because....thats it. All the build up for him to lose his first fight we see him in.
Maya killing or blinding him also is crappy, at the end of her show...fine. But this is not her show and she in no way earned this.

Yen letting Hawkeye go...makes sense but i really dont get how BW are so dangerous it took her way to long to get him weak enough when she could kill him.

Overall all, I dont want who ever wrote this story to ever write in the MCU again. This show was fine but it no where near where I want the story's to be. Spiderman last film is such a celebration of the characters and this show is rushed and just feels like it has no idea what it wants to be. If you enjoyed it cool but this show to me just doesn't have anything interesting to saw or is fun and celebrating any of the characters...its more "MCU" and while i liked characters more in this than say loki, Loki added lots of lore to the MCU and had more fun and celebrated the core character it was about

Again, the majority of the fight was Kingpin beating the jazz out of Kate first. She only won through luck.

 

[Nick]

Again, the majority of the fight was Kingpin beating the jazz out of Kate first. She only won through luck.

And plot convenience/technology all in one.

 

[Brian G.]

I think this was the best of all the Disney+ MCU shows thus far, but what do I know!

Totally Agree. It wasn’t perfect but it’s been my favorite and most complete to me.

 

[Nick]

It doesn't have to be End Game

Whiles Yes Spiderman is fun because of the villains and nods but what to me makes the film amazing is the message its the journey they have Peter on, its a dam good story. This is not that, its not an amazing story, doesn't have interesting lessons or characters its more because we needed something to fill a month on Disney Plus, I did in no way expect Hawkeye to be HUGE but i wanted heart and wanted them to focus on what makes the character great and why Kate loves this hero more than any other.
If the show can't do that which i do not think it did then it should not have been made. This should have been a celebration of this character and given him a real adventure to go on highlighting who he is

If people feel like this was the best show about this character they could have made, enjoy. But to me this was just not that, I did not feel the love from the creators felt more like a product.

They made almost the best show they could, GIVEN that you don't need to watch these series to understand the movies. For them to not be 100% necessary means that the series have limitations placed on them for how far the storytelling can go. I went to see NWH with a combined 15 people this weekend and only 3 had seen the shows. No one was lost while watching the movie nor did they need anything explained to them after.

Here's Kevin Feige's quote on the subject:
"If you want to understand everything in future Marvel movies, you'll probably need a Disney+ subscription, because events from the new shows will factor into forthcoming films such as Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness."

There is a big difference between ‘understand everything,’ and ‘be able to follow the movie". Like, does everyone know what Wanda and Strange are talking about in the MoM trailer when they briefly bring up Westview? No! Surely not everyone will, but your viewing experience will be heightened if you do know as you have so much extra background information on exactly the damage she caused. But not knowing isn’t going to make or break the trailer or movie.

Totally Agree. It wasn’t perfect but it’s been my favorite and most complete to me.

I think it's the first to really nail a finale. While I wasn't the biggest fan of the way things ended in the closing seconds (was it necessary? no. Does it leave us wondering going into Echo? Yes.), the rest of the episode was just balls to the walls and really closed up almost every open plot thread, which I was impressed with as there was a lot of open ends heading into this episode.

 

[Nick]

I think this was the best of all the Disney+ MCU shows thus far, but what do I know!

Totally Agree. It wasn’t perfect but it’s been my favorite and most complete to me.

I have two issues with the show. Too many characters, and there's no way Kingpin tolerates the bafoonish AND cartoonish Tracksuit Mafia.

When I say too many characters - i'll explain. Clint, Kate, Elenor, Jack, Kingpin, Maya, and Yelena is where most of the focus should've been. I would've liked to see more of Yelena and Kingpin.

Think about what else slipped in that we had to deal with - the LARPers, Tracksuit Mafia goons, a long storyline tease of Jack being the villain which was so obvious he wasn't and he only started to be a good character towards the end of the season (and then he was only used as Swordsman for one scene), A huge tease of Kingpin before his debut, etc. Some may say the Laura side story too, but I do like that they gave her some depth (although I could've done without it).

I just think they seemed to have a lot of good ideas for the show because individually, I like a lot of the things they did, I just don't like how they were executed. It's sort of like they forgot they only had 6 episodes and they forgot to trim the fat. I mean, while I like the ending, they really put it all together with a bow quickly. This show easily could've ran 8-10 episodes and it probably would've been better in the end because there was a lot of story that they were telling. I mean, we only got what, one or two scenes with Maya and Kingpin together before it ends? We were told a lot about the two of them, but we see them interact much.

 

[Vyrus]

Personally the show has its highlights such as the chemistry between Kate and Yelena was excellent, the line about "Don't make me like you more" is almost exactly how I feel like the entire audience feels about Yelena.

Kate won on a technicality and even then Wilson walked away with barely a scratch on him. I believe the opening scene of Echo will be her shooting the gun next to his ear, and beating him to a pulp and leaving him blind. Other than that, I do love that they didn't kill off Hawkeye which was my fear coming into this show, but thankfully more and more they are setting up the Young Avengers and they've introduced almost the entire full team at this point.