Helios Grand Hotel

[Mad Dog]

We did hard rock in December 21. I want to say we paid $230ish. So $500+ is just jarring.

Prices out of the roof for deluxes now. Even Portofino, which looks like heck with the major renovation going on, wants $400 during the May off season. .Part of what's happened is that Universal's capacity has sucked since the covid revenge crowds came, so there's more demand/need for Express passes . And since they come with the deluxe reservation, need I say more.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Prices out of the roof for deluxes now. Even Portofino, which looks like heck with the major renovation going on, wants $400 during the May off season. .Part of what's happened is that Universal's capacity has sucked since the covid revenge crowds came, so there's more demand/need for Express passes . And since they come with the deluxe reservation, need I say more.

Eh, I think people just found out how far better of a value Universal hotels are now, and Universal is taking advantage of the opportunity. Portofino was being priced at Disney moderate levels (sometimes cheaper) in the early 2010s.

While I hate I can't get a Cabana Bay room for $100 now, I would always chime about how it was a moderate if you'd place it into WDW property and charge those prices, people wouldn't blink an eye lol

 

[HandsomePete]

I thought for years that someone had lost the key to the Loews revenue management office and they couldn’t get to the computers to update their rates.

 

[Mad Dog]

Eh, I think people just found out how far better of a value Universal hotels are now, and Universal is taking advantage of the opportunity. Portofino was being priced at Disney moderate levels (sometimes cheaper) in the early 2010s.

While I hate I can't get a Cabana Bay room for $100 now, I would always chime about how it was a moderate if you'd place it into WDW property and charge those prices, people wouldn't blink an eye lol

Probably good reasons for that early pricing. First time I stayed at Portofino was for 10 nights in late May 2011. The manager who greeted me, they used to do that before attendance jumped into the 9/10/11/ million per park range, thanked me for coming and exclaimed I was one of the few people who had ever booked the hotel for that many nights. The hotel was dead. The bellman who took us to our room said there was less than a hundred guests in the entire hotel. They upgraded me to a full sized bay view balcony, which there's less than ten of them in the hotel. The Mandarin Spa was 'free' to us. Things, and prices, change when demand surpasses supply. It's basic economics.....Word of those Express Passes are all over the internet now, and Portofino gets a lot of one and two day bookings from people that only use the hotel to get a hold of those passes for their family. Universal stand by ride lines are way longer than they were before covid......Portofino has always been as good, or better, than the Disney deluxe hotels. And it's prices were considerably lower, and more in line with deluxe hotels that aren't on theme park property. But, unfortunately for us guests, Universal's attendance success is detrimental to our wallets.

 

[SkiBum]

Probably good reasons for that early pricing. First time I stayed at Portofino was for 10 nights in late May 2011. The manager who greeted me, they used to do that before attendance jumped into the 9/10/11/ million per park range, thanked me for coming and exclaimed I was one of the few people who had ever booked the hotel for that many nights. The hotel was dead. The bellman who took us to our room said there was less than a hundred guests in the entire hotel. They upgraded me to a full sized bay view balcony, which there's less than ten of them in the hotel. The Mandarin Spa was 'free' to us. Things, and prices, change when demand surpasses supply. It's basic economics.....Word of those Express Passes are all over the internet now, and Portofino gets a lot of one and two day bookings from people that only use the hotel to get a hold of those passes for their family. Universal stand by ride lines are way longer than they were before covid......Portofino has always been as good, or better, than the Disney deluxe hotels. And it's prices were considerably lower, and more in line with deluxe hotels that aren't on theme park property. But, unfortunately for us guests, Universal's attendance success is detrimental to our wallets.

yeah, that would be me. I book for one night to get UNI Express.

 

[Mad Dog]

yeah, that would be me. I book for one night to get UNI Express.

I wonder how many reservations the deluxe hotels would lose if they adopted a 3 or 4 night minimum stay to qualify for an Express pass. I have no access to any figures, but I would bet that would be a very significant percentage of guests. And I bet their pricing structure would be shocked. It will be interesting to see if Universal & Loews reach an agreement to extend Express passes to Helios, or exchange RP and Helios express status.

 

[fryoj]

I'm still wondering how they will handle the express pass deal with Helios and the new park. No way they can have the Helios not have express. But adding that many more bodies to express lines sounds bad too. Even with extra capacity added in the new park.

 

[Jake S]

I'm still wondering how they will handle the express pass deal with Helios and the new park. No way they can have the Helios not have express. But adding that many more bodies to express lines sounds bad too. Even with extra capacity added in the new park.

I’d be curious to see the math on this but I have to think the extra express capacity created by Epic more than offsets the number of express passes handed out. They could also mitigate this by selling fewer express passes, but I’m not counting on that.

 

[Mad Dog]

I’d be curious to see the math on this but I have to think the extra express capacity created by Epic more than offsets the number of express passes handed out. They could also mitigate this by selling fewer express passes, but I’m not counting on that.

Do we think that Epic will have Express lines it's first couple of years? That's a huge unknown. I'd guess no, since Universal generally doesn't offer express on new attractions for a year, two, three or more, depending on popularity. It took a real long time for FJ, and Hagrid's still doesn't have express.....I doubt they'd sell fewer express passes. They make a fortune on them. They're priced very high, especially during crowded days.

 

[Jake S]

Do we think that Epic will have Express lines it's first couple of years? That's a huge unknown. I'd guess no, since Universal generally doesn't offer express on new attractions for a year, two, three or more, depending on popularity. It took a real long time for FJ, and Hagrid's still doesn't have express.

Good point. My gut says no, but they’re going to field a lot of complaints if the hotel located in Epic Universe doesn’t get you express in Epic Universe.

 

[Mad Dog]

Good point. My gut says no, but they’re going to field a lot of complaints if the hotel located in Epic Universe doesn’t get you express in Epic Universe.

I agree with you on Helios Express, for at least the other two parks, especially since it will probably be an ultra expensive hotel, like the Disney deluxes. . That's why I conjectured they might swap it out with RP. Only a wild guess though. This could be a bit of a quandary for Universal/Loews, though the decision probably has already been made. If there's no Express for the other three deluxes at Epic, it would be less controversial perhaps.

 

[fryoj]

I’d be curious to see the math on this but I have to think the extra express capacity created by Epic more than offsets the number of express passes handed out. They could also mitigate this by selling fewer express passes, but I’m not counting on that.

According to their site, there's 30 express rides not counting VB. so ~10 per express hotel. EU has 11 rides or so depending on how you count starfall? Then is comes down to rooms per hotel to know for sure. And that assumes every ride is express. But I guess it really doesn't change the overall math other than the first year or so. Everyone will be going to EU, so those rides will be more likely to get overrun with express riders.

I could see EU being "Helios Express" only the first year.

 

[Jake S]

According to their site, there's 30 express rides not counting VB. so ~10 per express hotel. EU has 11 rides or so depending on how you count starfall? Then is comes down to rooms per hotel to know for sure. And that assumes every ride is express. But I guess it really doesn't change the overall math other than the first year or so. Everyone will be going to EU, so those rides will be more likely to get overrun with express riders.

Folks, I have done math.

First: shout out to our good friends at Touring Plans for the hotel room data.

Second: Here is the spreadsheet I put together.

Here's the too long, didn't click on the spreadsheet link. Right now there are 28 Universal Orlando Resort attractions with Express at the two dry parks and there are 2,400 rooms that grant occupants Unlimited Express. That will increase to 2,900 when Epic Universe opens.

Right now there are 0.0117 attractions per guest room. When Epic Universe opens (along with Helios) there will be .0097 attractions per guest room if Epic Universe opens without Express. If Epic Universe opens with Express at eight attractions (listed on the spreadsheet), we'll actually see a slight improvement to .0124 attractions per guest room.

Some caveats: This doesn't tell us anything about occupancy (how many total guests each hotel can hold) and obviously I'm making an educated guess regarding which attractions will have Express.

My takeaway is that even if there are no changes to Express when Epic Universe opens, it's unlikely to be catastrophic at either of the two existing parks. And I think @fryoj is 100 percent right that if Epic Universe offers Express, it'll be mobbed. Which is why it probably makes sense to not open with Express, though I'd be a little ticked off as a Helios guest if that is indeed the case.

 

[Mad Dog]

What's interesting is that it wasn't that many years ago that Universal only had 2,400 rooms, and they sometimes struggled to fill them at some really low rates (for what you received in amenities and value). Things have sure changed in just a decade....With so many hotel rooms now available on the Universal campus, the existence of Hotel Unlimited Express Passes are probably the main reason the deluxes can maintain their high price levels. The parks haven't really increased their capacity much, while attendance has soared. So the Hotel Express Passes have become a much more sought after commodity.

 

[SkiBum]

I wonder how many reservations the deluxe hotels would lose if they adopted a 3 or 4 night minimum stay to qualify for an Express pass. I have no access to any figures, but I would bet that would be a very significant percentage of guests. And I bet their pricing structure would be shocked. It will be interesting to see if Universal & Loews reach an agreement to extend Express passes to Helios, or exchange RP and Helios express status.

I don't know if UNI would go this route ever. Mainly because I don't know the profit margin on the hotels and occupancy rates. If I'm Universal, I would probably prefer to have the hotels filled at a much higher rate and surrender the Express Pass than have fewer bookings while preserving the Express Pass. I would expect Helios to have Express to maintain consistency between deluxe resorts for Universal. When a hotel is going to cost that much, people will stay offsite if they don't have an inducement to stay. I have wondered if Disney has hurt their deluxes by not having enough amenities to differentiate from the moderates. Plus, offsite hotels may start improving which could peel off those who were on the fence about staying onsite at either resort.

 

[Mad Dog]

I don't know if UNI would go this route ever. Mainly because I don't know the profit margin on the hotels and occupancy rates. If I'm Universal, I would probably prefer to have the hotels filled at a much higher rate and surrender the Express Pass than have fewer bookings while preserving the Express Pass. I would expect Helios to have Express to maintain consistency between deluxe resorts for Universal. When a hotel is going to cost that much, people will stay offsite if they don't have an inducement to stay. I have wondered if Disney has hurt their deluxes by not having enough amenities to differentiate from the moderates. Plus, offsite hotels may start improving which could peel off those who were on the fence about staying onsite at either resort.

I agree with you. I doubt they could get those rates on the Deluxe hotels that they now charge, if they limited, or discontinued, Express Passes. The demand and prices are probably mostly driven by the existence of the EP's. Heck, myself, I prefer Sapphire to RP, if RP didn't have EP's. My above comments were basically just my thoughts of how important EP's were to those three Deluxe resorts. They're all really nice hotels, I've stayed there most of the time, but I have as much vacation enjoyment when I stay at CBBR, or Sapphire, for much less money. Basically, we go during the moderate to low crowd season, plus I know my way around the ride times that I don't really need EP's. Even when I stay in the Deluxe hotels, I often don't make a lot of EP use since I really enjoy some of the queues that aren't part of the EP lines. And, if it's really crowded for an attraction, single rider is one of the best kept secrets.

 

[Jake S]

I will say that if they included Horror Nights Express as a perk, I’d stay at a Premier hotel every time I visit.

 

[rhino4evr]

I could see . No express pass, but Helios guests get early park admission exclusive.

 

[saint.piss]

 

[kristenabelle]

I could see . No express pass, but Helios guests get early park admission exclusive.

Like how they're doing it in Tokyo, I think - only Miracosta & Fantasy Springs will get early access to TDS once the new land opens, for an undetermined time. Makes a lot of sense to give Helios guests another perk in addition to the views & proximity.