New Project for Dinoland?

[OrlandoGuy]

It's not a matter of justifying it. I don't really think anyone is. Zootopia belongs nowhere near DAK and that's always been my position. However, if Disney does indeed move forward with putting Zootopia in the park, then it's happening and there's nothing we can do about it no matter how much it doesn't fit.

Are we supposed to just not talk about something that's not only heavily rumored, but we literally have concept art for? I'm all for being critical of Zootopia because I think it deserves it, but we can't pretend that Disney is going to expand the park when they've shown no indication that they. have any intention of doing so right now (even though the park needs it badly). Zootopia replacing Dinosaur is a plan that probably has a high likelihood of happening at this point. All we can do is voice displeasure at the idea.

Lol what?

 

[Nick]

Lol what?

Most are not "justifying" Zootopia as you said. We're discussing the current rumor. That's the point.

DAK deserves better than what it seems to be getting.

 

[ReelJustice]

Most are not "justifying" Zootopia as you said. We're discussing the current rumor. That's the point. DAK deserves better.

Much better.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Most are not "justifying" Zootopia as you said. We're discussing the current rumor. That's the point.

DAK deserves better than what it seems to be getting.

Bizarre reaction, IMO. The whole thread is about how the park needs more rides, how Zootopia would increase capacity, how Moana and Star Wars should be shoehorned in, etc. I just don’t think the park is in THAT dire need of new rides is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Nick]

Bizarre reaction, IMO. The whole thread is about how the park needs more rides, how Zootopia would increase capacity, how Moana and Star Wars should be shoehorned in, etc. I just don’t think the park is in THAT dire need of new rides is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That is not what the thread is "about".

1. Zootopia would increase capacity used because more people would ride it. Does that mean it fits? Absolutely not.
2. Why are we talking about Moana and Zootopia? Because Josh D'amaro gave us concept art last year. This is not some rumor we're taking and getting crazy with.
3. Just because one person mentions Star Wars does not mean that the thread is about that. The reaction to that suggestion wasn't exactly positive.

The park has 7 rides and it's 25 years old. Epic will have close to double the amount on Day 1. The park needs more rides. Rides = capacity/things to do. DAK is lacking both.

 

[mainejeff]

My mention of SW was dissed by exactly 2 people. I mentioned it because quite frany the title of this theead is a bit murky. “New project for Dinoland” does exactly scream “Zootopia/Moana Only Please”. I get that you guys need to keep order around here but reactions to a benign post bordered on venonmous…it’s especially disappointing when a forum power broker does it. I apologize for disgressing. Some of us don’t visit this forum religiously 24/7…rules can be enforced without throwing forum members under the bus.

 

[Nick]

My mention of SW was dissed by exactly 2 people. I mentioned it because quite frany the title of this theead is a bit murky. “New project for Dinoland” does exactly scream “Zootopia/Moana Only Please”. I get that you guys need to keep order around here but reactions to a benign post bordered on venonmous…it’s especially disappointing when a forum power broker does it. I apologize for disgressing. Some of us don’t visit this forum religiously 24/7…rules can be enforced without throwing forum members under the bus.

It's murky because the project for this area has changed throughout the years. In 2016 when this thread started, it was just a rumor of *something* happening and DinoLand going away. Then it turned into South America being the rumor with Indiana Jones replacing Dinosaur. Then Josh gave us the concept art of Moana and Zootopia. The thread has gone in many places, but it has always followed the current rumor.

I apologize if I overstepped at all. I'll step back a bit.

 

[Brian G.]

My mention of SW was dissed by exactly 2 people. I mentioned it because quite frany the title of this theead is a bit murky. “New project for Dinoland” does exactly scream “Zootopia/Moana Only Please”. I get that you guys need to keep order around here but reactions to a benign post bordered on venonmous…it’s especially disappointing when a forum power broker does it. I apologize for disgressing. Some of us don’t visit this forum religiously 24/7…rules can be enforced without throwing forum members under the bus.

Bizarre reaction, IMO. The whole thread is about how the park needs more rides, how Zootopia would increase capacity, how Moana and Star Wars should be shoehorned in, etc. I just don’t think the park is in THAT dire need of new rides is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm going to defend Nick here because he was doing the right thing. The thread is about a future project in Dinoland, which has changed since the creation of the thread. Yesterday, the new rumor of Zootopia kicked off the latest discussions and how the park doesn't need to replace existing areas but expand into new ones - but the overall core point of the thread is whatever is replacing Dinoland.

Now this..

I get that you guys need to keep order around here but reactions to a benign post bordered on venonmous…it’s especially disappointing when a forum power broker does it.

Is not fair... Nick handled it calmly, professionally, and respectfully. You may not like that he did it, but he by no means was venomous - especially when all your responses were snarky.

 

[SeventyOne]

But hey guys.....if you want Zootopia over a Redwood forest themed family area.....have at it!

<Diatribe> Just acquire the rights to Tolkien and build Mirkwood, then. Giant eagles, a guy who turns into a bear, a freakin' dragon like in the logo ... more on theme than Avatar, Moana, or Endor. Or how about Robin Hood? Like Zootopia, albeit with even less realism, but at least it's set in a forest.

The Ewoks aren't "animals" any more Luke and Leia are, they're an alien race with its own civilization. By this logic, we could put a nondescript Admiral Ackbar coaster in DAK because Mon Calamari aren't human, either. The theme of the park is ANIMALS, not nature preserve or whatever. Zootopia, while a huge stretch for DAK, does at some level draw humor and plot points from animals acting like animals. Bambi or Rite of Spring from Fantasia or even Brother Bear would be a better fit, no doubt, but of IPs in the last two decades, it's pretty much the best choice. </Diatribe>

Damn it, this silly debate made me go full-nerd. You never want to go full-nerd.

I can't agree that Zootopia is a bad decision if we're purely going by recognizable IP and, yes, *popular* IP. I'm looking on Disney+ right now at the Trending section. #1 is Secret Invasion which is new this week. After that, you have - Moana at #4, Encanto at #7, and Zootopia at #11. Those three are staples in the Disney+ trending section.

People in online communities like Twitter, reddit, and forums give far too much weight to "zeitgeist impact". Avatar had no impact on the zeitgeist over the span of 13 years and still produced a sequel that made $2.3B. Is anyone talking about Zootopia right now? No. But they don't need to. It's a movie that made over $1B as an original film in 2016 and is getting a sequel for a reason.

Disney adults might not be talking about it, but if Zooptopia is #11 on D+, I imagine plenty of kids are talking about it. Also, other than the aforementioned Rite of Spring, every animated Disney movie with non-humans is:

a relatable human story cloaked behind the mask of anthropomorphic animals.

 

[Mad Dog]

Heck, why not just do the Dino area in a more interesting way instead of the southern distressed roadside exhibit travesty the Imagineers did originally. Dino's are an inherently kid/family fun topic. Do it right and the people will come. The roadside mess was just a concept that wasn't thought out very well, and lacked common sense, from Day 1. Comparison: Kind of the Disney Imagineers out of touch like the Universal Creatives & Film Executives were with Fast & Furious ride.

 

[OLSinFLA]

Zootopia can’t be anymore insightly than a Dino-carnival on pavement….and it actually does feature….wait for it….animals!

Moana might blend in better with natural foliage and….wait for it…rockwork! That being said….seems out of place at AK.

Better Nick?

Zootopia basically features furries, not animals.

 

[JungleSkip]

Disney adults might not be talking about it, but if Zooptopia is #11 on D+, I imagine plenty of kids are talking about it.

In the 3 years I’ve had kids and the many years since close family and friends have had them and I’ve been around kids exponentially more than ever before it’s never a movie I’ve heard brought up. Hear about Frozen, Moana, Minions, hell even SING. Zilch about Zootopia. Anecdotal, obviously. But it’s the Arrested Development “Her?” meme in my head whenever it gets brought up as a potential theme park property

Heck, why not just do the Dino area in a more interesting way instead of the southern distressed roadside exhibit travesty the Imagineers did originally. Dino's are an inherently kid/family fun topic. Do it right and the people will come. The roadside mess was just a concept that wasn't thought out very well, and lacked common sense, from Day 1. Comparison: Kind of the Disney Imagineers out of touch like the Universal Creatives & Film Executives were with Fast & Furious ride.

To be fair, the roadside thing wasn’t original. There was the gift shop for Dinosaur/CTX. But the rest of the land was themed to the Dino Institute. Dino-Rama was a bandaid capacity “fix” in the early 2000s

 

[Cygnus]

Zootopia at Shanghai is gonna be really cool. It would be awesome if it came to the states

 

[Alicia]

Zootopia at Shanghai is gonna be really cool. It would be awesome if it came to the states

I feel like that’s the real reason this is being considered. I get the feeling it’s like their version of IOA’s Spider-Man but with AAs. Jurassic World Adventure then? With fast driving scenes, like Transformers?

It would definitely appeal to children more than a pitch black terrifying monster dinosaur ride, but I’ll be sad to see it go.

And not saying it’s right or anything, but have assumed they can make Zootopia “”fit”” by focusing on the different biomes that different species of mammals live in around the world, which have been recreated here in Zootopia, a place where all mammals can live and work in harmony.

Learning the different types of biomes and what types of animals live in each one is just as educational as learning what a keystone species is at Flight of Passage, so I’m betting that’ll be their focus.

How that fits into conservation? It’s not like Countdown to Extinction gave us any insight into how to prevent extinctions. A meteor hitting the planet was not preventable by the dinosaurs, so there’s not much we learn about conservation on that attraction currently, except that sometimes most lifeforms on earth go extinct.

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

I feel like that’s the real reason this is being considered. I get the feeling it’s like their version of IOA’s Spider-Man but with AAs. Jurassic World Adventure then? With fast driving scenes, like Transformers?

It would definitely appeal to children more than a pitch black terrifying monster dinosaur ride, but I’ll be sad to see it go.

And not saying it’s right or anything, but have assumed they can make Zootopia “”fit”” by focusing on the different biomes that different species of mammals live in around the world, which have been recreated here in Zootopia, a place where all mammals can live and work in harmony.

Learning the different types of biomes and what types of animals live in each one is just as educational as learning what a keystone species is at Flight of Passage, so I’m betting that’ll be their focus.

How that fits into conservation? It’s not like Countdown to Extinction gave us any insight into how to prevent extinctions. A meteor hitting the planet was not preventable by the dinosaurs, so there’s not much we learn about conservation on that attraction currently, except that sometimes most lifeforms on earth go extinct.

Exploring the different biomes was one of the very best parts of the movie. I LOVE how the dessert district was heated by the energy given off by the arctic district coolers!

 

[belloq87]

It would definitely appeal to children more than a pitch black terrifying monster dinosaur ride, but I’ll be sad to see it go.

I'd argue this is part of the problem with modern Disney's thinking, though: any intensity (I'm talking tonal, not physical) is seen as something that needs to be mitigated or outright removed. I think that's a mistake, and I think it underestimates both the capacity for kids to handle such things and the degree to which some kids (many kids, even) actually like encountering things that are a little scary, especially in a "safe" environment like a theme park.

How that fits into conservation? It’s not like Countdown to Extinction gave us any insight into how to prevent extinctions. A meteor hitting the planet was not preventable by the dinosaurs, so there’s not much we learn about conservation on that attraction currently, except that sometimes most lifeforms on earth go extinct.

In fairness, I don't think the park is just about conservation. Conservation can be the band-aid through which more questionable inclusions (Pandora) can be made to work in a park that celebrates the natural world and living, extinct, and mythological animals.

I can look at the dedication plaque and generally make what's currently in the park make sense to me under that umbrella. I can't do that with Zootopia.

And not saying it’s right or anything, but have assumed they can make Zootopia “”fit”” by focusing on the different biomes that different species of mammals live in around the world, which have been recreated here in Zootopia, a place where all mammals can live and work in harmony.

Learning the different types of biomes and what types of animals live in each one is just as educational as learning what a keystone species is at Flight of Passage, so I’m betting that’ll be their focus.

After Frozen Ever After and Cosmic Rewind, I have seen no evidence that Disney would be interested in even bothering to try to make something like Zootopia "fit" in Animal Kingdom. I would expect the story of the ride to be a straight clone of Shanghai's story (with the rides differing only in execution/showbuilding/ride system).

(I know you're not fully defending this idea. I just really dislike this whole thing a lot and need to vent!)

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

I wouldn't question the US popularity of Zootopia any more than something like Secret Life of Pets. Both earned similar domestic grosses and released within four months of each other. Similarly (assuming this Dinosaur redo is a go), both had rides greenlit before their sequels released. In SLOP's case, there was a dramatic drop off in audience interest, yet the ride in Hollywood still garners good crowds and reception. The jury's out on how well Zootopia 2 does, but Disney has had years of streaming metrics and revenue to solidify their decisions for a sequel and WDW ride. We aren't even getting the "full" land or original concept Shanghai is, just a Frozen Ever After/Tiana level overlay.

Now, is Zootopia the right fit for Animal Kingdom or this ride system? IMO, no. Will it be less tacky than most of the Dinoland we saw in our lifetimes? Probably. I'm not thrilled with Dinosaur closing as it's one of the most underrated rides on property but understand why Disney wants to get rid of it with low GSATs and short lines. This and Moana will be short-term "fixes" to a larger problem at Animal Kingdom. We still need an Avatar expansion and 2-3 additional rides before the park can start rivaling other parks on property let alone Universal.

 

[Nick]

I wouldn't question the US popularity of Zootopia any more than something like Secret Life of Pets. Both earned similar domestic grosses and released within four months of each other. Similarly (assuming this Dinosaur redo is a go), both had rides greenlit before their sequels released. In SLOP's case, there was a dramatic drop off in audience interest, yet the ride in Hollywood still garners good crowds and reception. The jury's out on how well Zootopia 2 does, but Disney has had years of streaming metrics and revenue to solidify their decisions for a sequel and WDW ride. We aren't even getting the "full" land or original concept Shanghai is, just a Frozen Ever After/Tiana level overlay.

Now, is Zootopia the right fit for Animal Kingdom or this ride system? IMO, no. Will it be less tacky than most of the Dinoland we saw in our lifetimes? Probably. I'm not thrilled with Dinosaur closing as it's one of the most underrated rides on property but understand why Disney wants to get rid of it with low GSATs and short lines. This and Moana will be short-term "fixes" to a larger problem at Animal Kingdom. We still need an Avatar expansion and 2-3 additional rides before the park can start rivaling other parks on property let alone Universal.

Yeah, this is why I always say IP matters nothing in regards to quality. Big IP can have bad rides (F&F) and lesser IP can have great/popular rides. For example, Tron is in pretty much no one's mind when they aren't at MK, but it makes for a fun enough coaster. We used to be able to point tot SotS with Splash. Also, worth noting that, while Avatar 2 was a big success, Pandora opened when Avatar was on the mind of no one and Flight of Passage was a big success any way. This was at a time when many people were doubting that Avatar 2 could repeat what Avatar did at the box office and become a phenomenon again and because it didn't have an active fan base that meant it was dead.

None of that is me defending the use of IP that doesn't fit into DAK, it's just my general philosophy when it comes to IP. Any IP can work for rides as long as there's a "fun" component.

 

[Andysol]

I’m fascinated to see what happens when one of the IP that these single-theme, multi-attraction lands falls out of favor. Interestingly enough, WWoHP might be the closest because of all the fall-out surrounding JK Rowling.

HP is going nowhere. It’s not even close to falling out of favor. Not even a minuscule amount.

Everything about HP is brilliant and it’s staying power is permanent.

The Ewoks aren't "animals" any more Luke and Leia are, they're an alien race with its own civilization.

Exactly. Which is why dinosaur should be the Bantha ride the world has been clamoring for.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

I feel like that’s the real reason this is being considered. I get the feeling it’s like their version of IOA’s Spider-Man but with AAs. Jurassic World Adventure then? With fast driving scenes, like Transformers?

It would definitely appeal to children more than a pitch black terrifying monster dinosaur ride, but I’ll be sad to see it go.

And not saying it’s right or anything, but have assumed they can make Zootopia “”fit”” by focusing on the different biomes that different species of mammals live in around the world, which have been recreated here in Zootopia, a place where all mammals can live and work in harmony.

Learning the different types of biomes and what types of animals live in each one is just as educational as learning what a keystone species is at Flight of Passage, so I’m betting that’ll be their focus.

How that fits into conservation? It’s not like Countdown to Extinction gave us any insight into how to prevent extinctions. A meteor hitting the planet was not preventable by the dinosaurs, so there’s not much we learn about conservation on that attraction currently, except that sometimes most lifeforms on earth go extinct.

This is why it’ll take till 2027. This is more of a land, the ride itself is a much more lengthy overlay if not new experience itself. Will add capacity because the area has never been super busy anytime I go. Dinosaur is a good ride, but I think the reason why it still has long lines here and there is cause there’s literally a handful of rides at the park… it’s not like people are going to skip it unless they have young kids. Now, young kids need to go to this area of the park.

I still think DHS needs this land the most but I’ve accepted the loss at this point.