Pandora: World of Avatar General Discussion

[JoeCamel]

I get it and we both know this has been hashed out on many boards but we need to keep the goal of WDW management in mind (at least for the last 10 - 12 years) is to separate the guest from their dollars as efficiently as possible which means getting them out of lines, not building long rides and only offering 3 FPs so they have more time to browse the stores and eat in the restaurants.

The days of the 15 minute ride are long gone. 3 - 5 minutes is what they are shooting for and GS (Guest Satisfaction) is not really the measure just GS (Guest spending)

 

[Nick]

I get it and we both know this has been hashed out on many boards but we need to keep the goal of WDW management in mind (at least for the last 10 - 12 years) is to separate the guest from their dollars as efficiently as possible which means getting them out of lines, not building long rides and only offering 3 FPs so they have more time to browse the stores and eat in the restaurants.

The days of the 15 minute ride are long gone. 3 - 5 minutes is what they are shooting for and GS (Guest Satisfaction) is not really the measure just GS (Guest spending)

Guest Satisfaction is a HUGE measure Disney is uses.

In terms of what needs updating at Epcot and what doesn't, they are using it a lot. Kids think Figment is cute and enjoyed the ride? An Imagination redo can wait. Families hate the 45-minute UoE and it isn't drawing numbers? It can go.

Yes it's also following the Guest Spend model as Figment sells plush whereas they make no money on UoE, but GSAT is still a big deciding factor. It was for Great Movie Ride's fate, too.

 

[UNIrd]

I get it and we both know this has been hashed out on many boards but we need to keep the goal of WDW management in mind (at least for the last 10 - 12 years) is to separate the guest from their dollars as efficiently as possible which means getting them out of lines, not building long rides and only offering 3 FPs so they have more time to browse the stores and eat in the restaurants.

The days of the 15 minute ride are long gone. 3 - 5 minutes is what they are shooting for and GS (Guest Satisfaction) is not really the measure just GS (Guest spending)

This doesn't jive at all with the low capacity attractions they've been building for the past decade-plus. Just because the ride isn't long doesn't mean they don't still have to wait hours for it.

 

[epcyclopedia]

The idea that FP gets people to spend more is a proven fallacy. People not in line go and wait in other lines.

Satisfaction does relate to spending though. It's why Windtraders is selling so much stuff. Much of it isn't "omg, must have" merch - rather happy people from FOP buy stuff.

River Journey has a lower capacity because that was within the acceptable limits of the lower tier attraction it aspires to be. It should, in theory, see a few degrees fewer guests per day than FoP and even things like Everest and Safaris. The problem is that right now it's not seen as an option in the larger park but one of the must-sees of Pandora. When the newness wears off, it should settle into place in the hierarchy.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

Does anyone know if they're still cutting off the line for Flight of Passage an hour or two before the park closes?

 

[epcyclopedia]

Does anyone know if they're still cutting off the line for Flight of Passage an hour or two before the park closes?

Wasn't cut after 8 with a 2 hour wait when I was there the other night.

 

[Alicia]

I called it folks!

EDIT: And they have confirmed to me that there is still no AP discount on banshees, even with the price increase.

 

[Nick]

It was inevitable, really.

I think if they try to jump too much higher though they're gonna be pushing it as far as what people are willing to pay.

 

[rhino4evr]

that's lame. I think $50 is a sweet spot. I wonder if they will still sell like crazy.

 

[Hatetofly]

Mostly as expected.

I think it was @Andy who said that while Pandora probably won't bring in new crowds to the resort as a whole, it could do a lot for DAK in the long haul since it adds more to do at the park and people will stay longer. The longer guests stay at the parks, the more money they spend.

I think that's probably the best way to look at this for now. I think it's probably going to take until the DHS additions and Epcot changes are on line to see what kind of effect WDW has seen from these additions.

Correct on all counts except I am expecting a pretty good attendance boost for Q3 and Q4.

 

[Disneyhead]

Correct on all counts except I am expecting a pretty good attendance boost for Q3 and Q4.

For the whole resort? Or DAK?

I'm just not seeing Pandora filling rooms as much as just cannibalizing DHS' and Epcot's #s.

 

[Mad Dog]

For the whole resort? Or DAK?

I'm just not seeing Pandora filling rooms as much as just cannibalizing DHS' and Epcot's #s.

Yes. Especially since the big Travel Agencies are saying there's no demand for Pandora expressed by people planning Disney vacations. Those first few weeks were probably fueled by locals. They might get another brief bump when AP blocks expire. Seems like Pandora is a artistic success, but an attendance flat tire.

 

[Alicia]

Yes. Especially since the big Travel Agencies are saying there's no demand for Pandora expressed by people planning Disney vacations. Those first few weeks were probably fueled by locals. They might get another brief bump when AP blocks expire. Seems like Pandora is a artistic success, but an attendance flat tire.

I know I can't wait to return after blackout dates.

 

[Nick]

Yes. Especially since the big Travel Agencies are saying there's no demand for Pandora expressed by people planning Disney vacations. Those first few weeks were probably fueled by locals. They might get another brief bump when AP blocks expire. Seems like Pandora is a artistic success, but an attendance flat tire.

Even if increased DAK attendance is coming at the cost of DHS and Epcot, this could be seen as something they are fine with as long as they didn't lose days/on-site occupancy to those who want to stay at Universal.

With VB opening at the exact same time and marketed as a third park, staying status quo and not losing days to Uni would be a win in this situation for Disney (and it adds life to DAK). Think of this as the opening act by Disney... Star Wars is the Main Event + various other projections are just the cherry on top.

It's easy to look at the situation and say "did attendance improve? no? FAIL!" - but we often say competition is a win-win for the customers and that has never been truer. Universal is in full build mode, but now we are seeing that Disney has been kicked into gear too and if Pandora is essentially the opening act for Star Wars - a franchise people actually care about - then watch out.

I just think it will be interesting where the numbers stand at WDW come 2020/2021. Perhaps Avatar 2 will even be out by then

 

[Disneyhead]

Even if increased DAK attendance is coming at the cost of DHS and Epcot, this could be seen as something they are fine with as long as they didn't lose days/on-site occupancy to those who want to stay at Universal.

With VB opening at the exact same time and marketed as a third park, staying status quo and not losing days to Uni would be a win in this situation for Disney (and it adds life to DAK). Think of this as the opening act by Disney... Star Wars is the Main Event + various other projections are just the cherry on top.

It's easy to look at the situation and say "did attendance improve? no? FAIL!" - but we often say competition is a win-win for the customers and that has never been truer. Universal is in full build mode, but now we are seeing that Disney has been kicked into gear too and if Pandora is essentially the opening act for Star Wars - a franchise people actually care about - then watch out.

I just think it will be interesting where the numbers stand at WDW come 2020/2021. Perhaps Avatar 2 will even be out by then

Even with the slight downturn in attendance, WDW is still rocking the numbers. While "Summer" is less insane, attendance during "festival season" (F&W, MNSSHP, MVMCP, into Marathon Weekend) is really strong. No one at TDO is really concerned about attendance. Burbank may be doing some hand wringing because of Pandora's performance, but based on pre-opening reservations, TDO knew exactly what to expect. They started offering great CM discounts on rooms for Summer back in April.

Pandora is a success on many levels, but it didn't result in a resort wide attendance bump. As you said, it most likely helped in less people cutting a Disney day to check out Universal though.

 

[Mad Dog]

12:30 PM Sunday Stand By Wait Times

* Flight of Passage.........75 minutes
*Navii River Journey....75 minutes

 

[Disneyhead]

12:30 PM Sunday Stand By Wait Times

* Flight of Passage.........75 minutes
*Navii River Journey....75 minutes

My oldest daughter is on her way to DAK right now. She is going to get on FoP before me. Arrrrggghhhh!

 

[Mad Dog]

My oldest daughter is on her way to DAK right now. She is going to get on FoP before me. Arrrrggghhhh!

And....deservedly so. ..........This time of day usually has the best times (at least the past three weeks)

 

[Disneyhead]

And....deservedly so. ..........This time of day usually has the best times (at least the past three weeks)

If I cared enough, I would have been there already. I'll see it....eventually.

The only "New for 2017!" attractions I have done are Fallon and Mine Blower.

Mine Blower is the sleeper hit for 2017. It's like a big boy coaster shoved into a tiny living space.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Correct on all counts except I am expecting a pretty good attendance boost for Q3 and Q4.

Ok Andy.