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Recent Debates/Problems/Etc on Forum

Brian G.

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 21, 2008
20,912
Orlando, FL
I honestly don't know how to approach this, and this may be the wrong way about handling it - but it needs to be said and hopefully we can iron the kinks out.

In recent months, I've seen debates get heated; where some responses get a little too venomous - and certain groups have established lines in the sand where it's always the same people trying to zing each other. In addition, I've received several complaints about negativity becoming a little more prevalent; especially as of late.

So in a way to sort of kumbaya this, please air out any grievances you've had with this forum or members, or even me, and we will try to see if we can find a common ground to make sure this forum doesn't evolve into a :poop: show and bring it back to the original point of the forum - discussions without having to feel intimidated or unwelcome in their searches.

Let's try to be honest, but respectful as well.

Thanks
 
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misterID

Rookie
Jun 28, 2013
438
I honestly don't know how to approach this, and this may be the wrong way about handling it - but it needs to be said and hopefully we can iron the kinks out.

In recent months, I've seen debates get heated; where some responses get a little too venomous - and certain groups have established lines in the sand where it's always the same people trying to zing each other. In addition, I've received several complaints about negativity becoming a little more prevalent; especially as of late.

So in a way to sorta of kumbaya this, please air out any grievances you've had with this forum or members, or even me, and we will try to see if we can find a common ground to make sure this forum doesn't evolve into a :poop: show and bring it back to the original point of the forum - discussions without having to feel intimidated or unwelcome in their searches.

Let's try to be honest, but respectful as well.

Thanks
Really, this is probably the most civil of all the forums. There's some snarkiness but it's not terrible. I think it comes down to like a "my team" mentality where people take any innocent criticism as an attack on their beloved; which isn't anything different than your favorite sports team, rock band, or politics. I've taken a few posts more serious than I should, and it devolves into who can get in the last word, or I throw in a barb when I get a patronizing response, and I immediately feel like an idiot for being childish. I'll do my best to let it slide. But it's great that you addressed it.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
21,924
Orlando
If you want me to be honest, my main gripe is if we even slightly start talking about screens (normally in a civil manner) someone inevitably jumps in and complains until we get sent off to the "SCREENZ" thread. I hate to compare it to segregation, but that's how it seems. Like we have to go over in a different corner because some people don't like talking about it.

Other than that I have no issues. I just think if we're having a civil discussion, getting yelled at for talking about something is slightly annoying. Compared to a forum like Magic though, this place is incredibly civil. I rarely have problems with anyone.
 

Brian G.

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 21, 2008
20,912
Orlando, FL
If you want me to be honest, my main gripe is if we even slightly start talking about screens (normally in a civil manner) someone inevitably jumps in and complains until we get sent off to the "SCREENZ" thread. I hate to compare it to segregation, but that's how it seems. Like we have to go over in a different corner because some people don't like talking about it.

Other than that I have no issues. I just think if we're having a civil discussion, getting yelled at for talking about something is slightly annoying. Compared to a forum like Magic though, this place is incredibly civil. I rarely have problems with anyone.
Only reason we separate the discussion for screens is because it obviously is a hot topic. Some people like to come to the threads just to get info for the respective topic. Hell, even if we go off a few posts with a joke, someone occasionally makes the remark to "GET BACK ON TOPIC". I'll usually let a few comments about screens go because sometimes it can be relevant to the topic, but as you can see - it can evolve into a 3-5 page back-and-forth debate which I don't want cluttering up the thread. So basically, the separate "Screen" thread is the best compromise I can see that offers a fair deal for everyone.

I do think this is a really civil forum, especially compared to...well, everybody can figure it out.

That being said, I feel like a lot of the civil unrest comes from the Disney side of the forums. These forums can be really anti-Disney at times.
I can agree to that, and I hate it sometimes. I'll try to call it out, too. Honestly, IMO Disney deserves some flack and criticisms, but not everything they do is a problem. If I see something that's hating just to hate, I'll call 'em out.

On the flip side, when someone offers a fair critique of Disney, there are some Disney faithful that come out and call them out for no reason to defend just to defend - and usually throw the "CUZ YOU HATE DISNEY AND LOVE UNIVERSAL".
 

Stitch_101

Member
Feb 11, 2015
598
Destin
I'll echo what misterID said that when it comes to some issues, people are most inclined to gut react to posts regardless of how innocent they are which causes those reply to come off more harsh then is warranted.

I've personally been seeing a trend of how some of the more veteran members respond to newer posters. Some new members aren't not always as knowledgable about the parks as the members who have been here for years are, and yes their posts may show that. Their have been instances in which some veteran members and insiders respond to those people in a mocking, often rude, manner. That doesn't look good, especially if the goal is to grow the OU community and brand. Its been a growing trend, especially among a few certain members, and its disheartening for me every time I see it happen.
 

UNIrd

Premium Member
Jul 18, 2008
6,348
Alright. I'm just gonna come out and say it. @Teebin's a bitch.

No, not really. I don't think this forum has gone too negative at all and I think anyone who does resort to personal mockery should be dealt with on an individual basis. But I can't honestly name any members who are regularly condescending to other members. Even @epcyclopedia. It just depends on the topic you find them in. :ears:
 

Scott W.

Premium Member
Feb 26, 2014
13,169
Glasgow
I still maintain that this is one of the friendliest forums I've ever been a part of. Some members you can have a heated debate with while at the same time, completely agreeing with them in another topic. I think the wide range of people here adds the diversity that's required to encourage good discussions.
 

Stitch_101

Member
Feb 11, 2015
598
Destin
Alright. I'm just gonna come out and say it. @Teebin's a bitch.

No, not really. I don't think this forum has gone too negative at all and I think anyone who does resort to personal mockery should be dealt with on an individual basis. But I can't honestly name any members who are regularly condescending to other members. Even @epcyclopedia. It just depends on the topic you find them in. :ears:
Disclosure: @Teebin is not one of the posters I was referencing LOL.

And for me, it's not an issue of where you find them. It seems like 9 out of ten time I see that mocking behavior, regardless or what thread it's on, it's from those same 2 or 3 posters. And they are posters who are prominate on the forums. I'm not say it's a huge problem, but it is a growing one that could become a bigger issue if we simple ignore it because we don't think it's as big an issue at the moment.

And I thought of another issue I've seen, though it's one that happens less often. There have been instances where a newer member, or even a more established member who has fallen behind or forgotten things on a thread, have asked questions that have already been addressed. Many of the threads get very long, and even with the search tool it can be hard to find exactly the info they are looking for. However, at times instead of answering, they are lectured about searching for the info they need. I've seen on at least two occasions this derail the thread with debate about it, turning it into a much larger issue then it would have been if someone had simply answered or , if someone knew where to look, directed them to the answer. I know personally how tiring it can be repeating ones self in here, so I understand people frustrations about repeating info, but there has to be a better way to handle the situation.
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
19,434
Pittsburgh area
I still maintain that this is one of the friendliest forums I've ever been a part of. Some members you can have a heated debate with while at the same time, completely agreeing with them in another topic. I think the wide range of people here adds the diversity that's required to encourage good discussions.
Yes, good points. Its the old maxim we always used in labor/management talks, "We can agree to disagree". By far these are the nicest, most civil discussions of any theme park oriented internet site. Some of them get really nasty. I only post on one other site, and I've cut that back to very little, since it's postings are pretty dead now and dominated by some real mean spirited posters.
 

Stitch_101

Member
Feb 11, 2015
598
Destin
I still maintain that this is one of the friendliest forums I've ever been a part of. Some members you can have a heated debate with while at the same time, completely agreeing with them in another topic. I think the wide range of people here adds the diversity that's required to encourage good discussions.
I completely agree. That's why I love it here. Lord knows I've had some heated debates, thanks in part to @JungleSkip (thanks man! Always love hearing your side of things, really, makes for some good food for thought!) But I thought "Hey, BriMan open the door, so why not throw out a few thing I think could be addressed."
 

JungleSkip

Premium Member
Feb 15, 2010
21,151
The Mushroom Kingdom
I completely agree. That's why I love it here. Lord knows I've had some heated debates, thanks in part to @JungleSkip (thanks man! Always love hearing your side of things, really, makes for some good food for thought!) But I thought "Hey, BriMan open the door, so why not throw out a few thing I think could be addressed."
I'm admittedly a snarky jackass, but I definitely do my best to not make things personal.

I'm just right and everyone else is wrong. :look:

:tongue:
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
Couple of notes..


I used to be a good guy. Not perfect or saintly, but good. And then one day I ended up with a medical condition known to be one of the most painful experiences a person can endure.

It didn't kill me, but it hurt really REALLY bad. And I kind of lost my mind. Crazy is a little different from evil though.

So I'm still not bad, I'm just not... Good. Well, "chaotic good" is how a D&D temperament chart would classify me.

And as for posting - I often know more than I'm saying thanks to the connections I made back as a goodie goodie. That results in fustration when being talked down to or contradicted by someone with no such knowledge.

And not giving a crap, I'll respond with the written equivalent of a baseball bat instead of a gentle coaxing.

To note, publicly eviscerating you and making you look like an idiot by destroying your argument with eloquence and savvy word play is not the same as a personal attack.

It just hurts cuz your ego got a bruisey-woozy. To which I say, suck it up buttercup.
 

carah

Newcomer
Feb 24, 2014
36
Ireland
As a daily reader but extremely rare poster I thought this may be a good time to throw my 2c in when the topic may be so prevalent to people who read but possibly never post/join:

Dumb Tourists / Knowledge - Possibly not something many of you will realize you are even doing whilst posting, and I totally understand why, given I do understand what you mean by so called "dumb tourists" on occasion, but please do not tar us all with the same brush! This will be my 5th year in a row spending a small fortune over at least 2 weeks travelling over from Ireland, and it really disheartens me when I am traversing the forums and see the umbrella reference to "dumb tourists".

This (and one or two others) is where I come to to hear people talk about/discuss rumors regarding HHN, Skull Island, Hulk re-opening etc. When I eagerly open the forum during a quiet 5 mins at work to hear the latest news and check my countdown (178 days yay!) to the next trip, I see these negative comments regarding how dumb tourists won't understand what is going on, and I quote *edit: had a quote in before I posted, but thought I should not single somebody out as I have seen it many times*.

I would consider myself pretty knowledgeable on all things Orlando, however, upon once asking a question here regarding a simple difference in EU and US policies, I felt chastised at my lack of knowledge.

End rant, hope not to alienate/annoy anybody, these are but my personal musings, seen plenty of UK/EU posters round these parts - maybe they just know not to tar themselves with the dumb tourist brush and I need to do the same ;)
 

Andy

aka Hatetofly
V.I.P.
Mar 16, 2010
11,095
As a daily reader but extremely rare poster I thought this may be a good time to throw my 2c in when the topic may be so prevalent to people who read but possibly never post/join:

Dumb Tourists / Knowledge - Possibly not something many of you will realize you are even doing whilst posting, and I totally understand why, given I do understand what you mean by so called "dumb tourists" on occasion, but please do not tar us all with the same brush! This will be my 5th year in a row spending a small fortune over at least 2 weeks travelling over from Ireland, and it really disheartens me when I am traversing the forums and see the umbrella reference to "dumb tourists".

This (and one or two others) is where I come to to hear people talk about/discuss rumors regarding HHN, Skull Island, Hulk re-opening etc. When I eagerly open the forum during a quiet 5 mins at work to hear the latest news and check my countdown (178 days yay!) to the next trip, I see these negative comments regarding how dumb tourists won't understand what is going on, and I quote *edit: had a quote in before I posted, but thought I should not single somebody out as I have seen it many times*.

I would consider myself pretty knowledgeable on all things Orlando, however, upon once asking a question here regarding a simple difference in EU and US policies, I felt chastised at my lack of knowledge.

End rant, hope not to alienate/annoy anybody, these are but my personal musings, seen plenty of UK/EU posters round these parts - maybe they just know not to tar themselves with the dumb tourist brush and I need to do the same ;)
Not to try and take away from your point but I wouldn't label you as a dumb tourist.. But regardless perhaps we create a simple Help Thread for not just you but others who may not know Orlando like some of us do. That be something helpful? Maybe even to those who may feel embarrassed to ask certain questions.

On the flip side the dumb tourist thing however will never go away.. Just the other day, hey where is that Harry Potter Park? Sir thats at Universal, this is Disney World... [HASHTAG]#dumbass[/HASHTAG]
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
You also learn to ignore the various levels of elitism.

The people who actually design rides think we are all ignore fools. All of us. Even the other ride builders.

Then the people who run the rides think all guests are fools.

Certain "savvy" guests think there are dumb tourists.

The truth is that all groups up and down. The lines are prone to thinking they're right while being quite wrong and doing incredibly stupid things. All while being blissfully unaware that they're just as stupid as the next person. The whole "it's not us, it's others" mentality.

I've watched folks from WDI and UC say incredibly stupid and incorrect things at formal presentations. We all know about some of their more famous rants on the net too.

People are people and people are generally quite dumb. For whatever reason, believe you're not dumb and somehow special and unique is also part of being human.
 
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WAJAS98

Veteran Member
Aug 15, 2014
3,319
--Classified--
Not to try and take away from your point but I wouldn't label you as a dumb tourist.. But regardless perhaps we create a simple Help Thread for not just you but others who may not know Orlando like some of us do. That be something helpful? Maybe even to those who may feel embarrassed to ask certain questions.

On the flip side the dumb tourist thing however will never go away.. Just the other day, hey where is that Harry Potter Park? Sir thats at Universal, this is Disney World... [HASHTAG]#dumbass[/HASHTAG]
I was thinking one of these:

1) something akin to what ThemeParkReview does. The first post gets edited every time major news shows up and basically summarizes the whole forum. Or the first post could link to all the major update posts in the thread.

2) a new thread made specifically for summarizing everything that is known and rumored at this time that can be updated weekly. Maybe have a different one for each Company and place it where the park threads are listed.
 
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P@n!K_Sw1tC#

Veteran Member
Aug 5, 2009
1,400
Windermere
I think it's best to let people settle differences as adults, and refrain from global censorship at all costs. Do people like the guy above me need a smack on the wrist every now and then? Of course he does. But I'd rather deal with ^That, than have to read a boring ass forum!
 
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carah

Newcomer
Feb 24, 2014
36
Ireland
Not to try and take away from your point but I wouldn't label you as a dumb tourist.. But regardless perhaps we create a simple Help Thread for not just you but others who may not know Orlando like some of us do. That be something helpful? Maybe even to those who may feel embarrassed to ask certain questions.

On the flip side the dumb tourist thing however will never go away.. Just the other day, hey where is that Harry Potter Park? Sir thats at Universal, this is Disney World... [HASHTAG]#dumbass[/HASHTAG]
You also learn to ignore the various levels of elitism.

The people who actually design rides think we are all ignore fools. All of us. Even the other ride builders.

Then the people who run the rides think all guests are fools.

Certain "savvy" guests think there are dumb tourists.

The truth is that all groups up and down. The lines are prone to thinking they're right while being quite wrong and doing incredibly stupid things. All while being blissfully unaware that they're just as stupid as the next person. The whole "it's not us, it's others" mentality.

I've watched folks from WDI and UC say incredibly stupid and incorrect things at formal presentations. We all know about some of their more famous rants on the net too.

People are people and people are generally quite dumb. For whatever reason, believe you're not dumb and somehow special and unique is also part of being human.
Thank you guys for answering! I certainly know in my own head I am not a "dumb tourist" and things like what you, HateToFly, have said there are the kinds of things I mean when I say I know there are plenty who do not spend the time researching as I meticulously do every year for new hints, tips and general etiquette (having found this site in 2011 as part of said research and never looked back!). I just know that, for me personally, I asked a simple "not-even-that-touristy-just-a-general-difference-in-what-I've-booked-before" question regarding a policy I had noted in my booking documents that I had not noted from the hotels I spent the 2 years over here previous in, that many EU hotels don't enforce but US ones do and I was made feel, to me anyway, like a fool who had never left my house before. Is forgotten about generally, just this thread dared us bare all grievances :lol:

Which leads me onto my actual response, hatetofly, I think that may be a fabulous idea to create a "Help Thread" or perhaps a "First Timers" thread?

Or even, I know another Ex(?) forum, who shall not be named like Volde-(well you get it!), that posted a massive eyesore of a disclaimer first, but didn't seem to get as many "So, I'm going with my 5 year old to Disney for the first time - which Harry Potter ride is the best to do first? And what time are the Shamu shows at? Oh, and my oldest boy wants to know where Falcon's Fury is? " Again thank you for responses, makes me feel like my silly apprehensiveness was irrelevant and I should try to post more often:)
 

Stitch_101

Member
Feb 11, 2015
598
Destin
I was thinking one of these:

1) something akin to what ThemeParkReview does. The first post gets edited every time major news shows up and basically summarizes the whole forum. Or the first post could link to all the major update posts in the thread.

2) a new thread made specifically for summarizing everything that is known and rumored at this time that can be updated weekly. Maybe have a different one for each Company and place it where the park threads are listed.
That's... actually a really good idea. Me likes it.