The State & Future of the Monorails (WDW)

[Nick]

Just in a sense of once they are up and running, do they then look and say, "hey, this might be a viable alternative." Replacement monorails or a replacement system seems inevitable now, and sooner rather than later.

I really hope they go with replacement monorails, but I fear they will go with Gondolas. The monorails fit in very nicely around the lagoon where I feel the Gondolas would stick out much more in this location (mostly due to how classic the monorails are to that specific area).

Of course at the same time if they do choose Gondolas, it would be far cheaper and probably run more efficiently so i'm gonna place my money on Gondolas

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I really hope they go with replacement monorails, but I fear they will go with Gondolas. The monorails fit in very nicely around the lagoon where I feel the Gondolas would stick out much more in this location (mostly due to how classic the monorails are to that specific area).

Of course at the same time if they do choose Gondolas, it would be far cheaper and probably run more efficiently so i'm gonna place my money on Gondolas

The expensive part of the monorails is already done. They just need new trains.

 

[Nick]

The expensive part of the monorails is already done. They just need new trains.

Yeah, with the automation being done, it really wouldn't make sense to back out now that they've put all that money into these ancient trains. Just get some new ones and they're good to go.

 

[s8film40]

I really hope they go with replacement monorails, but I fear they will go with Gondolas. The monorails fit in very nicely around the lagoon where I feel the Gondolas would stick out much more in this location (mostly due to how classic the monorails are to that specific area).

Of course at the same time if they do choose Gondolas, it would be far cheaper and probably run more efficiently so i'm gonna place my money on Gondolas

I really dont think that gondolas have the capacity to replace the monorails. As it is already the monorails generate a pretty long line in front of the MK at park close and that's with the system sucking in 1000 people every 5 minutes.

 

[Nick]

I really dont think that gondolas have the capacity to replace the monorails. As it is already the monorails generate a pretty long line in front of the MK at park close and that's with the system sucking in 1000 people every 5 minutes.

Monorails make stops though whereas Gondolas are continuously moving.

 

[s8film40]

Monorails make stops though whereas Gondolas are continuously moving.

One monorail train is equivalent to 12 gondola cars. Do you think they could load 12 cars in 2 minutes?

Doppelmayr claims that their system can move as many people in one hour as a monorail can in about a half an hour.

 

[Nick]

One monorail train is equivalent to 12 gondola cars. Do you think they could load 12 cars in 2 minutes?

Doppelmayr claims that their system can move as many people in one hour as a monorail can in about a half an hour.

The current set of Monorail cars certainly don't run at those dispatch rates and I even doubt that a fresh batch would.

 

[s8film40]

The current set of Monorail cars certainly don't run at those dispatch rates and I even doubt that a fresh batch would.

Well they did a few years ago. I agree it's probably not as good now but I can't imagine it's that much worse. It's still equivalent to 12 cars all at once.

I suspect that they're also going to find that they don't get the maximum efficiency out of the gondalas since WDW has a much higher number of people in wheelchairs and scooters. I'm not even sure how that works with gondalas, do they have to stop the whole thing when someone gets a scooter stuck?

 

[Nick]

Well they did a few years ago. I agree it's probably not as good now but I can't imagine it's that much worse. It's still equivalent to 12 cars all at once.

I suspect that they're also going to find that they don't get the maximum efficiency out of the gondalas since WDW has a much higher number of people in wheelchairs and scooters. I'm not even sure how that works with gondalas, do they have to stop the whole thing when someone gets a scooter stuck?

No, modern gondolas can literally just switch a gondola off to the side so the handicapped person can load. While they are getting ready, the rest of the system keeps running. I go to the parks normally once per week and there's normally only one person in a scooter per monorail.

When it comes to strollers, they can just wheel right on. Actually Scooters can wheel right on without stopper too. Let me find a video of the system Disney is using.

 

[s8film40]

I go to the parks normally once per week and there's normally only one person in a scooter per monorail

Haha, I would say it's more like an average of 3-4 per train. They used to only allow them in two sections of the monorail, that would never work now. They moved the railing and now will commonly use 3-4 sections. I've seen as many as 6-8 scooters in a monorail.

 

[fryoj]

Well they did a few years ago. I agree it's probably not as good now but I can't imagine it's that much worse. It's still equivalent to 12 cars all at once.

I suspect that they're also going to find that they don't get the maximum efficiency out of the gondalas since WDW has a much higher number of people in wheelchairs and scooters. I'm not even sure how that works with gondalas, do they have to stop the whole thing when someone gets a scooter stuck?

No, modern gondolas can literally just switch a gondola off to the side so the handicapped person can load. While they are getting ready, the rest of the system keeps running. I go to the parks normally once per week and there's normally only one person in a scooter per monorail.

When it comes to strollers, they can just wheel right on. Actually Scooters can wheel right on without stopper too. Let me find a video of the system Disney is using.

There were pics on the Gondola thread, but the main line keeps moving and the cars stop and stack in the station. You can be loading multiple cars at once, and dispatch them one at a time at proper intervals. So there might be ten cars sitting there at a time, but the main cable is still moving. One car comes in the same time another goes out. That way you have a couple minutes from the time a car gets in and stopped to unload and reload.

 

[Nick]

There were pics on the Gondola thread, but the main line keeps moving and the cars stop and stack in the station. You can be loading multiple cars at once, and dispatch them one at a time at proper intervals. So there might be ten cars sitting there at a time, but the main cable is still moving. One car comes in the same time another goes out. That way you have a couple minutes from the time a car gets in and stopped to unload and reload.

The real question is how many will the Gondolas hold per cabin. I haven't kept up with the Gondolas too much, i'm sure there is a number that people have figured out. Last I heard, 20-30 per cabin was bandied about, but that seemed a loose rumor at the time.

 

[s8film40]

The real question is how many will the Gondolas hold per cabin. I haven't kept up with the Gondolas too much, i'm sure there is a number that people have figured out. Last I heard, 20-30 per cabin was bandied about, but that seemed a loose rumor at the time.

That's what I saw on the Doppelmayre website. At that rate to replace the monorails they would need to dispatch one every 10-15 seconds. That doesn't seem realistic and indeed the numbers on their site don't support it either.

 

[Nick]

That's what I saw on the Doppelmayre website. At that rate to replace the monorails they would need to dispatch one every 10-15 seconds. That doesn't seem realistic and indeed the numbers on their site don't support it either.

Hey, if you look back at my posts in this thread (from earlier this morning even), i'm Pro-Monorail... at least for the MK area. I'm simply going over the differences between the two and I think Gondolas are far more likely to be at their theoretical dispatch rate due to ease of access for disabled guests. Scooters will be able to roll right on instead of a CM having to get a ramp for multiple people before the train can leave.

There's also the issues of a lot of times having to wait for the monorail in front of you whereas the Gondolas are constantly moving. There's pro's and Con's to both.

 

[s8film40]

Hey, if you look back at my posts in this thread (from earlier this morning even), i'm Pro-Monorail... at least for the MK area. I'm simply going over the differences between the two and I think Gondolas are far more likely to be at their theoretical dispatch rate due to ease of access for disabled guests. Scooters will be able to roll right on instead of a CM having to get a ramp for multiple people before the train can leave.

There's also the issues of a lot of times having to wait for the monorail in front of you whereas the Gondolas are constantly moving. There's pro's and Con's to both.

Yeah definitely. I think the point I'm trying to make is gondalas aren't a viable replacement to monorails even with a higher dispatch rate. Like I said though the monorail system as is is actually pretty overwhelmed. The whole concept of a park and ride system to enter the park simply doesn't work with the numbers MK gets. I think at some point they may need to figure something else out and let the monorail (or an alternative) become a convenience rather than a necessity.

 

[fryoj]

The real question is how many will the Gondolas hold per cabin. I haven't kept up with the Gondolas too much, i'm sure there is a number that people have figured out. Last I heard, 20-30 per cabin was bandied about, but that seemed a loose rumor at the time.

That's what I saw on the Doppelmayre website. At that rate to replace the monorails they would need to dispatch one every 10-15 seconds. That doesn't seem realistic and indeed the numbers on their site don't support it either.

The most likely looking one on the Doppelmayr site for those numbers is the 3s which says has a max capacity of 35 per car. But after looking closer into it, that one may need to keep moving. Their detachable car system allows for stacking and wheelchairs, but says has a max of 15 per car. It lists that it maxes out at 4500 PPH per direction, so 9000 per section. I'm not sure how that stacks up against the monorails.

 

[s8film40]

The most likely looking one on the Doppelmayr site for those numbers is the 3s which says has a max capacity of 35 per car. But after looking closer into it, that one may need to keep moving. Their detachable car system allows for stacking and wheelchairs, but says has a max of 15 per car. It lists that it maxes out at 4500 PPH per direction, so 9000 per section. I'm not sure how that stacks up against the monorails.

Monorails can achieve a maximum of around 9,000 per line per hour one way. It could probably do a little under double that in two directions, but there's rarely ever equal traffic in both directions.

 

[Nick]

Yeah definitely. I think the point I'm trying to make is gondalas aren't a viable replacement to monorails even with a higher dispatch rate. Like I said though the monorail system as is is actually pretty overwhelmed. The whole concept of a park and ride system to enter the park simply doesn't work with the numbers MK gets. I think at some point they may need to figure something else out and let the monorail (or an alternative) become a convenience rather than a necessity.

I really don't think there's much that can be done about MK's parking situation. They would need to put huge garages somewhere near MK to get around having to use the monorail, but there isn't room enough to even build garages of the necessary size needed.

 

[s8film40]

I really don't think there's much that can be done about MK's parking situation. They would need to put huge garages somewhere near MK to get around having to use the monorail, but there isn't room enough to even build garages of the necessary size needed.

Yeah like I said a parking garage between GF and MK. There's room. Obviously the cost is an issue, but I think opening up a prime hotel site could outweigh that.

 

[Nick]

Yeah like I said a parking garage between GF and MK. There's room. Obviously the cost is an issue, but I think opening up a prime hotel site could outweigh that.

The issue then becomes how do you get tens of thousands of guests all the way back there on tiny little Floridian Way? That road could never handle the crowds that would have to get back there and tbh, the garage would likely have to be as big as the one for both IOA and USF for just MK. Then there's the issue of getting the guests to the park as they would have to walk quite a distance AND cross a canal that currently does not have a walking bridge in place and it would need to be a draw bridge too due to the Electric Water Pageant that comes out that way every night.

There's simply too many issues and too much cost to make it worth it for them. Being a local I come in on Floridian way and it's already crowded enough with local traffic... I couldn't imagine if Tourists were being sent back there too.