Universal Great Britain

[Chessy]

Almost every box, to check the percentage of europeans with a passport you'll have to go country by country, some are around 40% while others are around 60%, a rough average of 50% for the european union, that means that while every single one of them can go to Disneyland Paris with just their id in their pocket, to go to Bedford half of them would need to first request a passport, something that if 50% of the europeans citizens doesn't have by now, its not going to change because of a theme park, so an ideal location that checks every box would be in France, Spain, Italy or even Germany, where you have 2 times the potential visitors that the UK has

At the end of the day this multi billion dollar company wouldn’t purchase land for no purpose whatsoever. They obviously see some potential here, and not just for the UK market. You’re never going to catch the entire market but they know they will attract many overseas tourists as Orlando does. The reality is the UK is a very short trip from mainland Europe, as DLP is from the UK.

 

[BBPH]

Who owns the rights to Roald Dahl books/Wonka for theme park attractions? I'd love to see a land based on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Boat ride and glass elevator ride please.

After a, mostly unpopular past attraction at towers and controversy surrounding the name, I don’t think we’ll see anything from Roald Dahl.

I manage a London attraction that could very easily be connected to the glass elevator ride and even we stay away from it.

 

[UER]

They would require a passport to go to Universal Orlando too, but the flights to this new one will likely be much quicker.

I was talking about the european market, I don't think Universal wants to compete with Universal Orlando but Disneyland Paris

 

[Alicia]

I was talking about the european market, I don't think Universal wants to compete with Universal Orlando but Disneyland Paris

I’m saying Universal is a big enough draw that people would jump through a little extra hoops to visit it. Especially if there was one that was closer.

Renewing a passport for half the visitors who will be visiting from the EU is not enough a deterrent to not build a park close to the millions of U.K. residents living nearby who would frequent such a park without a passport. Both types of visitors will come if the park is high quality.

 

[havaska]

I’m saying Universal is a big enough draw that people would jump through a little extra hoops to visit it. Especially if there was one that was closer.

Renewing a passport for half the visitors who will be visiting from the EU is not enough a deterrent to not build a park close to the millions of U.K. residents living nearby who would frequent such a park without a passport. Both types of visitors will come if the park is high quality.

This. Added is the fact that US culture resonates far more with British people than other European countries.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Almost every box, to check the percentage of europeans with a passport you'll have to go country by country, some are around 40% while others are around 60%, a rough average of 50% for the european union, that means that while every single one of them can go to Disneyland Paris with just their id in their pocket, to go to Bedford half of them would need to first request a passport, something that if 50% of the europeans citizens doesn't have by now, its not going to change because of a theme park, so an ideal location that checks every box would be in France, Spain, Italy or even Germany, where you have 2 times the potential visitors that the UK has

Lol it's so cute how you are keeping this going.


Someone help me out here, what's 50% of 448m ?

 

[HandsomePete]

This is very silly comment, they're not proposing building this park in Inverness


Also how are you taking 30 mins to get a mile and half from Baker Street , are you walking via Camden, that's wild.

Door to door was about a 40min walk, so "30 minutes added onto travel time" would include walking to Baker Street, waiting for the next train, riding to Kings Cross, navigating the terminal, and actually having a few minutes to spare before the doors lock on a train. I've lived in more than one big city and you learn very quickly that it takes forever to get from point A to point B that are like 3-4 miles apart. Where I moved most recently I was dead set on not having my world turn into a 1-2 mile radius... and my world turned into a 1-2 mile radius.

There are multiple options to get to this park from all directions in the UK and Europe, its about time this narrative that somehow this is a bad choice because transport reasons comes to an end. If any of us were writing a wish list of desirable factors for building a new park, this site would tick every box.

Like I said, it'll take 7-8 years to know but as someone who has actually been paid to do viability assessments for stuff like this, no, it doesn't check every box. Specific components of visitation that are really important are passable at best for Bedford, like drive-in business from people within 50km... which, believe it or not, Alton Towers has about 1.4X more than this site has. And don't even bother comp'ing to DLP because that's about 3.5X.

You can call it a narrative but actually thinking through it in tangible terms, I just can't realistically get that site to 5M attendance a year. I guess it's that I can absolutely envision a PowerPoint deck floating around that has "30 minutes to Luton airport" and "40 minutes so St. Pancras" bullet points on it as if either of those are really that great or where the bulk of attendance will come from.

Lol it's so cute how you are keeping this going.

You're starting to come across as a shill and not just someone who is excited for this to get built. People are allowed to have opinions.

 

[xtpower]

I’m saying Universal is a big enough draw that people would jump through a little extra hoops to visit it. Especially if there was one that was closer.

Renewing a passport for half the visitors who will be visiting from the EU is not enough a deterrent to not build a park close to the millions of U.K. residents living nearby who would frequent such a park without a passport. Both types of visitors will come if the park is high quality.

Just to hijack your great point. Universal GB will also hoover up tourists who come over to visit London. With the strength of the park's brand and the potential IP's they'll use, they should be able to easily attract a large part of the London tourists. Tourists btw who come from far further afield than merely the EU.

 

[UER]

I’m saying Universal is a big enough draw that people would jump through a little extra hoops to visit it. Especially if there was one that was closer.

Renewing a passport for half the visitors who will be visiting from the EU is not enough a deterrent to not build a park close to the millions of U.K. residents living nearby who would frequent such a park without a passport. Both types of visitors will come if the park is high quality.

Its not renew, it would be getting it for the first time, I know it sounds weird from the USA, but in europe people are used to not care about passport, you can go by car from italy to sweden not needing one, just your id, those people won't jump extra hoops if they have lived 30/40/50 years with a passport, I'm not saying there aint a market for it in the UK, I'm saying that if DLP has 12 million visitors a year from a potential 500 million market, from half of it I dont see Universal UK going anywhere near 10.

 

[tommyhawkins]

I’m saying Universal is a big enough draw that people would jump through a little extra hoops to visit it. Especially if there was one that was closer.

Renewing a passport for half the visitors who will be visiting from the EU is not enough a deterrent to not build a park close to the millions of U.K. residents living nearby who would frequent such a park without a passport. Both types of visitors will come if the park is high quality.

This is the actual market they will be looking at, not the made up excuses about passports , 21million people visited London in 2019. 40m visitors to the UK in total, numbers have been steadily rebounding since pandemic.

Tourism statistics - City of London

Tourism facts and figures for the City of London, also known as the Square Mile.

www.cityoflondon.gov.uk

 

[xtpower]

Door to door was about a 40min walk, so "30 minutes added onto travel time" would include walking to Baker Street, waiting for the next train, riding to Kings Cross, navigating the terminal, and actually having a few minutes to spare before the doors lock on a train. I've lived in more than one big city and you learn very quickly that it takes forever to get from point A to point B that are like 3-4 miles apart. Where I moved most recently I was dead set on not having my world turn into a 1-2 mile radius... and my world turned into a 1-2 mile radius.


Like I said, it'll take 7-8 years to know but as someone who has actually been paid to do viability assessments for stuff like this, no, it doesn't check every box. Specific components of visitation that are really important are passable at best for Bedford, like drive-in business from people within 50km... which, believe it or not, Alton Towers has about 1.4X more than this site has. And don't even bother comp'ing to DLP because that's about 3.5X.

You can call it a narrative but actually thinking through it in tangible terms, I just can't realistically get that site to 5M attendance a year. I guess it's that I can absolutely envision a PowerPoint deck floating around that has "30 minutes to Luton airport" and "40 minutes so St. Pancras" bullet points on it as if either of those are really that great or where the bulk of attendance will come from.


You're starting to come across as a shill and not just someone who is excited for this to get built. People are allowed to have opinions.

Alton Towers requires driving typical British rural roads, it is nothing like the Bedford spot for accessiblity and you're lauding it as far superior a Park to get to. The Bedford spot is not only flanked by the M1 and two other motorways but I highly doubt Universal would decline to invest in the local transpotation infrastructure either.

So by 2030 if Universal jumps in, I expect it will have the infrastructure to accomodate 5million+ yearly attendance.
Honestly your whole pessimistic view seems to woefully understate how attractive the Universal brand and the subsequent IP actually are. Universal competes with Disney on a global level and you think it'll be somehow fail to meet 5mill attendance because it's located in Bedford?
If I'm honest it really feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill in regards to it being located in Bedford. Tourists won't give a damn about it being located in quaint little Bedford and not London or some other city. They'll see the Universal brand, whatever IP they have and will immediately think, 'yea, I wanna go there.' It being located in Bedford won't mean a thing to them.

 

[UER]

not the made up excuses about passports

Are you able and willing to debate as an adult, or you just refuse to do that?

What part of half of europe not having a passport is a made up excuse? It is a reality that limits the potential market share of the project and directly affects how it will compete with its biggest rival in the continent, Disneyland Paris

 

[tommyhawkins]

Door to door was about a 40min walk, so "30 minutes added onto travel time" would include walking to Baker Street, waiting for the next train, riding to Kings Cross, navigating the terminal, and actually having a few minutes to spare before the doors lock on a train. I've lived in more than one big city and you learn very quickly that it takes forever to get from point A to point B that are like 3-4 miles apart. Where I moved most recently I was dead set on not having my world turn into a 1-2 mile radius... and my world turned into a 1-2 mile radius.


Like I said, it'll take 7-8 years to know but as someone who has actually been paid to do viability assessments for stuff like this, no, it doesn't check every box. Specific components of visitation that are really important are passable at best for Bedford, like drive-in business from people within 50km... which, believe it or not, Alton Towers has about 1.4X more than this site has. And don't even bother comp'ing to DLP because that's about 3.5X.

You can call it a narrative but actually thinking through it in tangible terms, I just can't realistically get that site to 5M attendance a year. I guess it's that I can absolutely envision a PowerPoint deck floating around that has "30 minutes to Luton airport" and "40 minutes so St. Pancras" bullet points on it as if either of those are really that great or where the bulk of attendance will come from.


You're starting to come across as a shill and not just someone who is excited for this to get built. People are allowed to have opinions.

Really hard to take someone super serious that just told me they would take 40mins to get from Baker St station to Kings cross instead of walking one mile down the very straight road between the stations.

Especially when they're looking at Bedford that currently doesn't have a world class theme park on its doorstep and waffling on about Alton Towers and DLP drive in components when they have have 30 year parks already existing.

But you go off I must be a shill who is looking a PowerPoints hahah

 

[havaska]

Are you able and willing to debate as an adult, or you just refuse to do that?

What part of half of europe not having a passport is a made up excuse? It is a reality that limits the potential market share of the project and directly affects how it will compete with its biggest rival in the continent, Disneyland Paris

Tbh your arguments feel like you have a chip on your shoulder about the UK due to Brexit. It feels like you’re searching for reasons as to why the UK is the wrong place for this park and that is should be in the EU. Not sure if that’s true or not but that’s how it’s coming across (as a massively pro-EU remain voting Brit).

 

[tommyhawkins]

Are you able and willing to debate as an adult, or you just refuse to do that?

What part of half of europe not having a passport is a made up excuse? It is a reality that limits the potential market share of the project and directly affects how it will compete with its biggest rival in the continent, Disneyland Paris

You chose to not look at the rest of the message. EU visitors to UK only made up 25% of the total number visiting UK in 2019.

And yes when I pointed out that 224m is a considerable amount of people you should have took the hint that your made up problem didn't land like you thought it would.

 

[UER]

Tbh your arguments feel like you have a chip on your shoulder about the UK due to Brexit. It feels like you’re searching for reasons as to why the UK is the wrong place for this park and that is should be in the EU. Not sure if that’s true or not but that’s how it’s coming across (as a massively pro-EU remain voting Brit).

Talking about potential market share is not an opinion, half of europeans not having a passport isn't either, is a fact, they can get one just to visit a theme park? Sure they can. Will they? Well, thats where opinion enters the debate, park enthusiasts already have passports, but the common citizen, judging by people I know, will just see the Eiffel tower and take a picture with Mickey.

I am not saying a park with an estimated attendance of 5 millions can't be profitable, or that it would be a shame to have it in the UK, what I think would be a shame is not having the same Universal vs Disney competition that California or Orlando have, if DLP doesn't see the park as one that can dethrone them as the most visited park in Europe, they will continue what they have done the last 2 decades and forget about the park and any new ride that can increase their numbers, which is what I dont want, not a park in the UK

 

[xtpower]

You chose to not look at the rest of the message. EU visitors to UK only made up 25% of the total number visiting UK in 2019.

And yes when I pointed out that 224m is a considerable amount of people you should have took the hint that your made up problem didn't land like you thought it would.

Another point that you can use is that if Universal were actually bothered by the whole 'passport issue' and believed that building in the UK would severely limit their attendances, then they wouldn't have bothered to buy land. They would've done whatever study needed doing, seen the results and started looking on the European mainland for locations. But they did buy land and are now conducting a feasibility study.

So, I'll trust the guys who have opened new parks all over the World, rather than someone worrying about the impact of brexit.

 

[UER]

Another point that you can use is that if Universal were actually bothered by the whole 'passport issue' and believed that building in the UK would severely limit their attendances, then they wouldn't have bothered to buy land. They would've done whatever study needed doing, seen the results and started looking on the European mainland for locations. But they did buy land and are now conducting a feasibility study.

So, I'll trust the guys who have opened new parks all over the World, rather than someone worrying about the impact of brexit.

You are taking it as if I'm saying they are not going to build it, I am not saying that, I am saying that it wont be competition for DLP

 

[Scott W.]

Another point that you can use is that if Universal were actually bothered by the whole 'passport issue' and believed that building in the UK would severely limit their attendances, then they wouldn't have bothered to buy land. They would've done whatever study needed doing, seen the results and started looking on the European mainland for locations. But they did buy land and are now conducting a feasibility study.

So, I'll trust the guys who have opened new parks all over the World, rather than someone worrying about the impact of brexit.

Don’t be bringing logic into this discussion.

The idea that one of the biggest theme park operators has done their homework and not just spent millions on a whim is quite the hot take.

 

[xtpower]

Talking about potential market share is not an opinion, half of europeans not having a passport isn't either, is a fact, they can get one just to visit a theme park? Sure they can. Will they? Well, thats where opinion enters the debate, park enthusiasts already have passports, but the common citizen, judging by people I know, will just see the Eiffel tower and take a picture with Mickey.

I am not saying a park with an estimated attendance of 5 millions can't be profitable, or that it would be a shame to have it in the UK, what I think would be a shame is not having the same Universal vs Disney competition that California or Orlando have, if DLP doesn't see the park as one that can dethrone them as the most visited park in Europe, they will continue what they have done the last 2 decades and forget to about the park and any new ride that can increase their numbers, which is what I dont want, not a park in the UK

I have to ask, but do you believe that Universal haven't already considered your worries already? I highly doubt they bought land purely on the back of it's location and proximity to London. They've likely done very extensive studies already on what a potential cap building a Park in the UK would have and clearly whatever result they got is satisfactory to them.

I may not know the ins and outs but a company like Comcast with a brand like Universal would never buy land blind, sure they might find out for whatever reasons the spot won't work. But there's zero chance they didn't consider what the attendance numbers could be and what would limit them first.