Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Scott W.]

I expect one big outside coaster because they're just ridiculously popular and people flock to them like seagulls. When RRR is the number one highest rated ride in the resort (god that sentence makes me sick), prepare for atleast one like it in this new park

If they're going for a large outdoor coaster, I'd pray for a RMC coaster, twisted colossus was one of the best coasters I've been on in a long time. The new steel coasters look pretty interesting too, I think some great theming could be created around them.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I expect one big outside coaster because they're just ridiculously popular and people flock to them like seagulls. When RRR is the number one highest rated ride in the resort (god that sentence makes me sick), prepare for atleast one like it in this new park

I wouldn't be surprised if we possibly see a clone of BSG if they do a generic Sci-Fi land for this gate (and if the park is happening, which it seems). It caters to two styles, the familys with a airtime driven sitdown and a thrill-seeking Inverted coaster with some really fascinating pieces. And, it is very well done for an attraction, even if you don't like that series. That being said,

I wouldn't be surprised that we get word in the Q1 Call, we get word on if Universal Orlando acquired the land, that or we know in December and it starts getting mentioned at the Q1 Call.

 

[Blue]

I don't see a new park coming for at least 10 years.

And honestly I hate the thought of Universal building a new park/complex so far from the existing resort. I know it's closer than how the Disney parks are distances but WDW was never a walkable resort. It's essentially an entire different resort.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

RE "Unthemed" Coasters: Let there be one or two in the new park as long as it fits in. Locals would kill for some and it'd still draw tourists. As far as a potential timeline goes *puts on blue sky cap*

2016: Everything that we know is coming and probably FJ 3D
2017: Everything we know
2018: Nintendo
2019: Avengers, new restaurant in Marvel, new slide at Volcano, Wet n Wild's replacement
2020: Ministry of Magic, ground breaks on 3rd park
2021: Shrek replacement, new Toon Lagoon ride, new slide at Volanco, ground breaks on new hotel
2022: New hotel opens
2023: 3rd park opens

This timeline still leaves expansion pads open (plot next to MIB, Hollywood, Lost Continent, plot next to CITH, and potentially some Toon Lagoon spots).

 

[fryoj]

The problem with a coaster heavy park is its just too niche a market. A Universal park has to appeal to a broad range of people. There's a reason Disney and Universal attendance numbers are far higher than Six Flags. I think there is room for something like this in the Orlando market but not with the investment Universal is making. I could see Fun Spot evolving and expanding into that role after a good amount of time.

So you don't think the fact that parks like Cedar Point only operate 6 months out of the year versus Uni's 12 months affects total attendance? King's Island has had over 50,000 people in a day many times and its rumored that it's hit 65,000 before. Can the Uni parks say that? Can any of the Orlando parks besides MK say that? Combined, the six flags parks would have much higher attendance than the Uni parks. I'm not saying they should build a six flags type park, but to suggest that roller coaster parks are a niche market is a little naive.

 

[JungleSkip]

RE "Unthemed" Coasters: Let there be one or two in the new park as long as it fits in. Locals would kill for some and it'd still draw tourists. As far as a potential timeline goes *puts on blue sky cap*

2016: Everything that we know is coming and probably FJ 3D
2017: Everything we know
2018: Nintendo
2019: Avengers, new restaurant in Marvel, new slide at Volcano, Wet n Wild's replacement
2020: Ministry of Magic, ground breaks on 3rd park
2021: Shrek replacement, new Toon Lagoon ride, new slide at Volanco, ground breaks on new hotel
2022: New hotel opens
2023: 3rd park opens

This timeline still leaves expansion pads open (plot next to MIB, Hollywood, Lost Continent, plot next to CITH, and potentially some Toon Lagoon spots).

If they're getting this land, I'm betting new park opens in 2021

 

[AlexanderMBush]

If I would pull up some blue sky crap much like what @ThemeParks4Life did..it'd be somewhat similar and different at the same time.

2016: Everything we know
2017: Everything we know including TSLoP at late 2017 and FJ3D
2018: Nintendo and Ground breaking on Third Gate
2019: MSHI Overhaul including Avengers Dark ride, New VB Experience (slide or something else), Wet N' Wild plot replaced by Transportation Hub
2020: Ministry of Magic, Shrek replacement, Announcement of all the rides for third gate, another new VB Experience
2021: Two New Hotels, Third Gate

 

[Blue]

So you don't think the fact that parks like Cedar Point only operate 6 months out of the year versus Uni's 12 months affects total attendance? King's Island has had over 50,000 people in a day many times and its rumored that it's hit 65,000 before. Can the Uni parks say that? Can any of the Orlando parks besides MK say that? Combined, the six flags parks would have much higher attendance than the Uni parks. I'm not saying they should build a six flags type park, but to suggest that roller coaster parks are a niche market is a little naive.

That doesn't sound right. Kings Island got around 3.25 million visitors last year. If they're only open for 180-190 days (6 months) then their average attendance is about 17k/day. USF's average (8.25m, 365 days) would be 22.6k. IOA would be 22.3k.

I don't think any park aside from Magic Kingdom, and maybe Disneyland, are getting close to those numbers.

 

[Scott W.]

So you don't think the fact that parks like Cedar Point only operate 6 months out of the year versus Uni's 12 months affects total attendance? King's Island has had over 50,000 people in a day many times and its rumored that it's hit 65,000 before. Can the Uni parks say that? Can any of the Orlando parks besides MK say that? Combined, the six flags parks would have much higher attendance than the Uni parks. I'm not saying they should build a six flags type park, but to suggest that roller coaster parks are a niche market is a little naive.

I don't know if either of the parks could hold that many guests but combined, they're averaging about 50,000 people a day and you did see the parks when HP opened right?

 

[captainmoch]

So 2021 could be WDW 50th anniversary AND Universal 3rd gate.
What a time to live in central Florida, man.

 

[Scott W.]

So 2021 could be WDW 50th anniversary AND Universal 3rd gate.
What a time to live in central Florida, man.

Plus everything that's coming by 2018.

 

[Mad Dog]

I don't know if either of the parks could hold that many guests but combined, they're averaging about 50,000 people a day and you did see the parks when HP opened right?

I think the Studios' capacity is somewhere around 40,000. Not sure about IOA. I think Test Track had those capacity figures for the Universal parks. Test Track, where are you? Can you give us those numbers again?

 

[fryoj]

That doesn't sound right. Kings Island got around 3.25 million visitors last year. If they're only open for 180-190 days (6 months) then their average attendance is about 17k/day. USF's average (8.25m, 365 days) would be 22.6k. IOA would be 22.3k.

I don't think any park aside from Magic Kingdom, and maybe Disneyland, are getting close to those numbers.

Well you are using tea numbers first of all which no one trusts. But just to simplify it, if your attendance for the week was: M,T,W,Th - 5,000 a day, Fri- 14,500, Saturday - 65,000, Sunday - 14,500 - Your average attendance would be 17,000. They aren't getting 50,000 a day, those are peak days. A peak day at KI or Cedar Point will feel every bit as crowded as MK.

I don't know if either of the parks could hold that many guests but combined, they're averaging about 50,000 people a day and you did see the parks when HP opened right?

Thats two parks to get what ki does on a peak day. On that same peak day, CP, Canada's wonderland, KBF, all the six flags, etc, are having peak days. Just trying to say, it's not a niche market.

 

[Scott W.]

Well you are using tea numbers first of all which no one trusts. But just to simplify it, if your attendance for the week was: M,T,W,Th - 5,000 a day, Fri- 14,500, Saturday - 65,000, Sunday - 14,500 - Your average attendance would be 17,000. They aren't getting 50,000 a day, those are peak days. A peak day at KI or Cedar Point will feel every bit as crowded as MK.



Thats two parks to get what ki does on a peak day. On that same peak day, CP, Canada's wonderland, KBF, all the six flags, etc, are having peak days. Just trying to say, it's not a niche market.

Where are you getting these numbers? They may have peak days but this is a marathon remember, not a sprint and you need consistency with your attendence.

If it would truly bring in those numbers, Disney with all their research, would have built that extreme villains park that's been rumoured forever but they haven't.

The facts are, that yes, people love big roller coasters but if you think that a park with only that will draw a bigger crowd than the current parks then you're wrong. Disney and Universal have realised that you need to cater to everybody.

When Mako opens, SeaWorld should have a massive boost in attendance and why isn't Busch having incredible numbers since it has more coasters than any other Florida park?

 

[fryoj]

The facts are, that yes, people love big roller coasters but if you think that a park with only that will draw a bigger crowd than the current parks then you're wrong. Disney and Universal have realised that you need to cater to everybody.

When Mako opens, SeaWorld should have a massive boost in attendance and why isn't Busch having incredible numbers since it has more coasters than any other Florida park?

You clearly didn't read my posts.

 

[maxairmike]

Where are you getting these numbers? They may have peak days but this is a marathon remember, not a sprint and you need consistency with your attendence.

If it would truly bring in those numbers, Disney with all their research, would have built that extreme villains park that's been rumoured forever but they haven't.

The facts are, that yes, people love big roller coasters but if you think that a park with only that will draw a bigger crowd than the current parks then you're wrong. Disney and Universal have realised that you need to cater to everybody.

When Mako opens, SeaWorld should have a massive boost in attendance and why isn't Busch having incredible numbers since it has more coasters than any other Florida park?

Mainly, location. It is an extra hour+ from Disney each way, requiring a rental car or usually slightly inconvenient bus transit. That's why Legoland and BGT are much more local parks.

Also, those numbers he used probably aren't that far off the mark. Having watched the crowd levels every day for two summers at CP and knowing that peak days during the summer and Halloweekends could draw between 35-60k, I find them pretty good guesses.

EDIT: However, I think we can all agree that Universal won't (and IMO shouldn't) be creating a thrill-first/normal amusement park, but will likely include one or two large coasters/flat rides in a 3rd park. This is really a different topic.

 

[s8film40]

So you don't think the fact that parks like Cedar Point only operate 6 months out of the year versus Uni's 12 months affects total attendance? King's Island has had over 50,000 people in a day many times and its rumored that it's hit 65,000 before. Can the Uni parks say that? Can any of the Orlando parks besides MK say that? Combined, the six flags parks would have much higher attendance than the Uni parks. I'm not saying they should build a six flags type park, but to suggest that roller coaster parks are a niche market is a little naive.

Well they get more concentrated attendance in the season they are open. The fact that they have to close during portions of the year really only proves the point that they aren't as popular. A roller coaster park is limited to a very specific demographic that's what makes it a niche market. It's not being naive it's a fact. Additionally even if that weren't the case the fact that those type of parks are all over the country and world only makes it more difficult to justify it in this setting. Why would someone plan a trip to Florida, pay for hotels, etc. just to go to a park like the one nearby where they live.

 

[maxairmike]

Well they get more concentrated attendance in the season they are open. The fact that they have to close during portions of the year really only proves the point that they aren't as popular. A roller coaster park is limited to a very specific demographic that's what makes it a niche market. It's not being naive it's a fact. Additionally even if that weren't the case the fact that those type of parks are all over the country and world only makes it more difficult to justify it in this setting. Why would someone plan a trip to Florida, pay for hotels, etc. just to go to a park like the one nearby where they live.

You do realize that Cedar Point and other seasonal parks don't close because they're "niche parks," but more because of weather, right? Knott's and SFMM operate year-round, the SF parks in Texas are open 9 months of the year. SeaWorld San Antonio isn't open all year, either. For these much more regional parks in warmer climates the issue is staffing, as they rely a lot more on local HS and college students. The same applies for the northern regional parks, but weather plays a much larger factor.

 

[captainmoch]

Would a thrill park be cool in central Florida? Yes. Could I see it happening someday? Maybe. Should Universal be the one making it? No.

Can we move on, now?

 

[maxairmike]

Would a thrill park be cool in central Florida? Yes. Could I see it happening someday? Maybe. Should Universal be the one making it? No.

Can we move on, now?

This. I'd contribute to the discussion in a different thread if others want, but I'll stop contributing the sidebar in this thread.