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Woman without arms files Complaint against Universal

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scott W.
  • Start date Start date Sep 1, 2016
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s8film40

s8film40

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  • Sep 2, 2016
  • #41
deathcab4cutie said:
here's the thing say she wins then that opens the door for anyone to sue theme parks for being safe.Its a lot like the lawsuit against steam which if the British company wins then they can go on to sue every other company for doing what they been doing for years.But ya she wont win BC if you go to the website for universal you will see all the ride requirements.So its just another person who went without doing research.
Click to expand...
Posting rules on a website doesn't make it law. If they posted on the website that wheelchairs weren't allowed in the park, that doesn't mean that someone can't sue them for not letting them bring a wheelchair in.

Universal is going to need to be able to show that the rules truly are for safety and that there was no reasonable way to accomodate her. The fact that many other parks seem to be able to accomplish this task and Universal for some reason cannot seems to indicate this might not be a quick and easy case for Universal.
 
Teebin

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  • Sep 2, 2016
  • #42
s8film40 said:
Posting rules on a website doesn't make it law.
Click to expand...

Gosh, we see this so differently. If trespassing holds so well, I feel it would here. Is it cruel and unusual, yeah, but it seems to work... unless you have $100K to throw at the situation.
 
s8film40

s8film40

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  • #43
Teebin said:
Gosh, we see this so differently. If trespassing holds so well, I feel it would here. Is it cruel and unusual, yeah, but it seems to work... unless you have $100K to throw at the situation.
Click to expand...
This is a discrimination case. Posting a rule on a website doesn't give someone the right to discriminate. Otherwise anytime a business was faced with the extra cost of having to provide a ramp or elevator they would simply post a "no wheelchairs" sign instead.
 
Mr. EPCOT

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  • Sep 2, 2016
  • #44
I don't think this lawsuit has any legs.
 
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Teebin

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  • Sep 2, 2016
  • #45
Mr. EPCOT said:
I don't think this lawsuit has any legs.
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I hope not. It truly is a safety issue from my perspective. If she slipped sideways violently and snapped her neck, it would cost Universal millions.
 
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bob albert

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  • Sep 2, 2016
  • #46
deathcab4cutie said:
ill just post this here took me 30 sec to find https://www.universalorlando.com/park-guide/universal-orlando-riders-guide.pdf.After reading this there were rides she could ride but they were extremely limited.For some reason kong was one she could ride
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Read it. Still think there will be a settlement happening.
 
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maxairmike

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  • Sep 3, 2016
  • #47
bob albert said:
Read it. Still think there will be a settlement happening.
Click to expand...

Mainly because they just want the issue to to go away, not so much because the case has merit.

As a former operations person (not at Universal), she really doesn't have much of a chance. These restrictions are almost certainly straight from the ride manufacturer, though it is also possible the park may have decided to exceed manufacturer recommendations for other reasons (but I generally doubt it). As for the apparent discrepancy with her being able to ride most all attractions at Disney...I have my suspicions/guesses, but I won't speculate as to what those are. These restrictions are pretty much similar to what you would encounter at any other US park. As a reference, here is Cedar Point's Guest Assistance Guide. Of the 4 attractions I worked at the most over 2 summers there (though I worked a total of closer to 15 total rides), she could have ridden one, the Scrambler. She would not have been able to ride the Matterhorn, Blue Streak, or Dodgems (bumper cars). A few of the family/kiddy rides I worked even have a requirement of one arm and one leg (sometimes allowable as two arms as long as the amputation is at/below the knee with enough for the restraint to function properly), and she would not have been able to ride even the relatively tame Ocean Motion (a HUSS swinging ship). While these restrictions can seem a bit absurd at times, they help to ensure safety even in extraordinary circumstances and ride failure.

Also, keep in mind that while she may be a person with exceptional control of her body without her arms, she is almost certainly the exception and not the rule. Making an exception for her is not only a HUGE liability risk on the part of the park during her visit, but also risks setting a precedent when a "lesser-abled" double amputee visits the park and finds out about the exception made for her.

EDIT: Another thing to keep in mind is that while the generally accepted way to ride a thrill ride as a guest is with arms up and not holding on, that is not the legal/safe riding position. While you won't "get in trouble" for riding with your arms up and/or not holding on to the provided grab bars or your restraint, if an injury happens that could have been prevented by you following the proper riding position the park is not at fault. All attraction signage and generally all announcements/spiels tell you to sit upright, holding on for the duration of the ride. Obviously, someone with no arms and not using any prosthesis cannot hold on, which means they cannot be in a proper riding position.

Obviously I am not taking into account prosthetics, as I don't recall the article mentioning if she had them. Prosthetic rules are a bit more variable, due to being considered loose articles in some instances.
 
Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
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s8film40

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  • #48
maxairmike said:
As a reference, here is Cedar Point's Guest Assistance Guide.
Click to expand...
Interesting so here is yet another example of a park with even more limited resources than Universal who rather than simply saying without arms you can't ride anything instead lists out each attraction and makes accommodations when possible.

I still think this whole thing was a set up and I don't really want her to win, but Universal should have had a better plan in place. My guess is this lawyer probably researched all the policies at all US parks, saw this discrepancy at Universal and booked her a trip.
 
Parkscope Joe

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  • Sep 3, 2016
  • #49
s8film40 said:
Interesting so here is yet another example of a park with even more limited resources than Universal who rather than simply saying without arms you can't ride anything instead lists out each attraction and makes accommodations when possible.
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So you read what Mike posted and that's the conclusion you came up with? Really?
 
OLSinFLA

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I don t think he looked at the Universal link. Spelling out what each attraction needs, as well as a description of the experience, is in the Universal guide as well.
 
s8film40

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testtrack321 said:
So you read what Mike posted and that's the conclusion you came up with? Really?
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Well yeah, I get what he's saying and I agree the rides that are actually safe for someone like this are severely limited. It's hard to ignore though that even in his examples that park made exceptions and accommodations where it made sense. The thing is I completely agree with and support Universals policy for most rides, the only thing I see causing them an issue is this being a blanket policy. If/when this ever goes to court the discussions aren't actually going to revolve around things like Hulk and HRRR (that was simply for the media portion of this), instead they're going to be talking about the tea cup and Dumbo type rides.
 
hishedale

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  • Sep 3, 2016
  • #52
I don't want to go out on a limb here (;)), but this just a silly lawsuit.
 
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s8film40

s8film40

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OLSinFLA said:
I don t think he looked at the Universal link. Spelling out what each attraction needs, as well as a description of the experience, is in the Universal guide as well.
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Yeah, I did. They virtually copied and pasted the same line into every attraction description about grasping.
 
s8film40

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hishedale said:
I don't want to go out on a limb here (;)), but this just a silly lawsuit.
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Sometimes the silly ones are the most profitable.
 
hishedale

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  • #55
s8film40 said:
Sometimes the silly ones are the most profitable.
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Like a chocolate factory?
 
s8film40

s8film40

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hishedale said:
Like a chocolate factory?
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Who knows, I think the lady with no arms has more to stand on then the chocolate factory guy though. A discrimination case has more laws behind it protecting the individual and certainly potential for more public sympathy, which could persuade a settlement.
 
hishedale

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s8film40 said:
Who knows, I think the lady with no arms has more to stand on then the chocolate factory guy though. A discrimination case has more laws behind it protecting the individual and certainly potential for more public sympathy, which could persuade a settlement.
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I believe it's more of a safety thing than discrimination.
I seem to recall reading something about Universal actually taking a liking to impaired people for things like HHN.
I don't think that they would discriminate if it wasn't for the persons own good.
 
s8film40

s8film40

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hishedale said:
I believe it's more of a safety thing than discrimination.
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It's absolutely a discrimination case, Universal is citing safety as the reason for the discrimination. These are related issues it's not a matter of safety or discrimination. As an example if I opened a business with a type of flooring that wasn't safe for wheelchairs to roll on and simply hung up a sign that said "no wheelchairs" I would be in big trouble even though yes I would be doing it for safety. Discrimination is okay so long as you can back it up with legitimate safety issues and show that there is no reasonable way to accommodate the person with the issue. The fact that other parks are definitely making these accommodations cast some serious doubt onto Universals claims. So then the question becomes what is so unique about Universal's situation that is keeping them from accommodating her.
hishedale said:
I seem to recall reading something about Universal actually taking a liking to impaired people for things like HHN.
Click to expand...
Yeah haunted houses are notorious for not taking into consideration access for people who are disabled. I built one once with some friends and would receive multiple phone calls and emails every single day asking if it was wheelchair accessible. I know there isn't that high of a percentage of disabled people so I'm sure it was lawyers too lazy to go check it out themselves and just calling to get a feel for if there was potential for a case. HHN is obviously as we know a very professional event and they do everything they can and I'm sure want to get that message out there.
hishedale said:
I don't think that they would discriminate if it wasn't for the persons own good.
Click to expand...
I agree, I just think they may have been a little lazy in applying this rule to every single attraction. On the whole I think what Universal is doing is right, but I think they may have left a small opening for a valid lawsuit.
 
Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
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Frank Drackman

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  • #59
:agree:

I'm no lawyer or anything, but I imagine the key word up there is 'reasonable' and I assume that would be the focus of any potential violation.
 
OLSinFLA

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s8film40 said:
Yeah, I did. They virtually copied and pasted the same line into every attraction description about grasping.
Click to expand...

Thats because every one (except HE) requires that. But is also explains the ride itself.
 
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