Recent Debates/Problems/Etc on Forum

[WAJAS]

At the same time, whats the point of relentless positivity. It just makes people who actually enjoyed the ride not say anything and you end up like other forums where people don't post their actual opinions.

I know they really aren’t completely equivalent, but it still holds some truth.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

From my perspective, moderators seem to be scared of negativity on the forums recently. It's bad when someone continuously hammers the point, but an attraction that is negatively received will have a more negative discussion around it. It can't and shouldn't be avoided.

Members are starting to get to the point of continuously hammering their point, but this only started very recently while moderators have been commenting about it for a while.

One of the jobs Mods have is to facilitate healthy discussions. Posting social media impressions without added context or contributions several times doesn't lead to healthy discussions. Heck, a one time post going "Wow social media impressions are bad" with a few links is adding something to the discussion. But after the third post is where I drew the line of "ok stop".

If someone hates an attraction or loves it, for any reason that isn't factually incorrect, is their business and their opinion. As we've shown we'll allow opinions that are positive and negative, even if we don't agree with them. But spamming, not posting in good faith, and being argumentative we have to step in.

For context, when I read posts I have a "gut feeling" meter. If something feels off I'll note it and think about it, usually over a few hours or days. If it comes up again or I see it again I'll either try to direct the discussion back on topic, talk to the mod team, or talk to Brian. My goal is to find a ground where frequent posters can have lively discussions while also giving guests and infrequent posters a good experience.

 

[WAJAS]

One of the jobs Mods have is to facilitate healthy discussions. Posting social media impressions without added context or contributions several times doesn't lead to healthy discussions. Heck, a one time post going "Wow social media impressions are bad" with a few links is adding something to the discussion. But after the third post is where I drew the line of "ok stop".

If someone hates an attraction or loves it, for any reason that isn't factually incorrect, is their business and their opinion. As we've shown we'll allow opinions that are positive and negative, even if we don't agree with them. But spamming, not posting in good faith, and being argumentative we have to step in.

For context, when I read posts I have a "gut feeling" meter. If something feels off I'll note it and think about it, usually over a few hours or days. If it comes up again or I see it again I'll either try to direct the discussion back on topic, talk to the mod team, or talk to Brian. My goal is to find a ground where frequent posters can have lively discussions while also giving guests and infrequent posters a good experience.

I get that, but I feel like in the particular instance being referred to mods intervened a bit early. I haven’t looked over the discussion a second time, but it didn’t feel like anything against forum rules was occurring till after the first mod comment.

Overall, you guys do an amazing job and, I’m honestly thankful for the time you put in to help make this forum what it is.

 

[Brian G.]

From my perspective, moderators seem to be scared of negativity on the forums recently. It's bad when someone continuously hammers the point, but an attraction that is negatively received will have a more negative discussion around it. It can't and shouldn't be avoided.

Members are starting to get to the point of continuously hammering their point, but this only started very recently while moderators have been commenting about it for a while.

Which is what caused us to step in yesterday...

I don't know why everyone missed or glared over it - but we never said "STOP TALKING NEGATIVE!", or specifically in this case "STOP POSTING NEGATIVE TWITTER REVIEWS". TO Quote myself from when the thread started to really derail:

We’re all on the same page. Posting twitter reviews back to back to back without expounding it into any thoughts is beating a dead horse at this point.

Not at all. The problem isn’t posting twitter reviews and saying “looks like the GP isn’t taking to this ride either” - it’s the drive-by postings of the twitter reviews. As stated, posting without expounding your thoughts is beating the dead horse.

Saying the ride sucks is fine. Posting over and over the ride sucks is not adding to the discussion.

I get that, but I feel like in the particular instance being referred to mods intervened a bit early. I haven’t looked over the discussion a second time, but it didn’t feel like anything against forum rules was occurring till after the first mod comment.

Overall, you guys do an amazing job and, I’m honestly thankful for the time you put in to help make this forum what it is.

We also consolidated the post from 3 to 1 since then....

 

[Galaxy Defender]

At the same time, whats the point of relentless negativity. It just makes people who actually enjoyed the ride not say anything and you end up like other forums where people don't post their actual opinions.

I usually get the idea someone doesn't like it after it's been posted the first time. The rest is noise.

 

[ChrisFL]

I agree saying a ride is great or sucks is only worth posting if it's followed up with specific reasons WHY and a potentially decent debate can be made as to the merits of certain aspects. For example, in F&F the question about whether 3D glasses would have helped or hurt the attraction can have two very valid viewpoints.

As was so eloquently stated in Monty Python:

"M: Oh look, this isn't an argument!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

M: It's just contradiction!

O: No it isn't!"

 

[WAJAS]

We also consolidated the post from 3 to 1 since then....

Honestly didn’t notice that. :doh:

 

[shiekra38]

I mean if Universal would just cool it with the screens a bit that would solve 50% of the issues on these forums! O:

The other 50% being devoted to whether or not HHN is going to have an icon

 

[SpatulaShack]

Since it appears my posting those twitter reviews and the oddly swift complaints from the mods shortly after is the discussion going on in here, I figured I'd set the record straight. I was posting twitter reviews as they were coming in, in real-time, immediately after the ride opened. Judging by time spent on other theme park forums and even other threads on this forum, that is 100% normal behavior when a ride opens. It happens in box office forums when movies open on Fridays as well. People begin posting real-time reviews as they are coming in and in some case, real-time box office numbers. Any redundancy in the twitter posts does not mean the person relaying the reviews is "dogpiling," it just means there is a consensus in the reviews beginning to form. These twitter round-ups began sparking discussion for one page before the mods stepped in and claimed the opposite.

Long story short, I respect the mods so I immediately stopped posting the twitter round-ups. Several people asked for clarification, including me, and despite several attempts, I still don't really understand the reasoning and I still firmly believe if I did three posts in a row of twitter round-ups that were all positive after a Harry Potter opening, nothing would have been said and nothing would have been done. It's also worth noting that none of what was said by Joe or Bryan really applied to what was happening (at least not in my eyes.) I wasn't "spamming," I wasn't "dogpiling," I was not posting in bad faith, and I was not only posting reviews with no other comments. I was also posting the maximum allowable number of embedded media in each post so going back and editing my original post to add more twitter reviews wasn't an option. Even if that were possible, it wouldn't really make sense on a forum when you're trying to gauge reaction as it comes in and follow along with the discussion anyway. Who knows, maybe I'm old school and have a fundamental misunderstanding of what happens in forums these days.

There you have it. I was doing what I actually love seeing on a forum after a ride opens completely unaware anyone would have an issue with it. I've migrated over here after 15 years at WDWMagic and been trying to learn the ropes but I feel as though I'll keep a low profile for now and only chime in every now and then. If posting a whopping three twitter round-ups on the day of a ride opening caused this much controversy I'm terrified what happens when there is actual heated debate going on.

 

[Brian G.]

Since it appears my posting those twitter reviews and the oddly swift complaints from the mods shortly after is the discussion going on in here, I figured I'd set the record straight. I was posting twitter reviews as they were coming in, in real-time, immediately after the ride opened. Judging by time spent on other theme park forums and even other threads on this forum, that is 100% normal behavior when a ride opens. It happens in box office forums when movies open on Fridays as well. People begin posting real-time reviews as they are coming in and in some case, real-time box office numbers. Any redundancy in the twitter posts does not mean the person relaying the reviews is "dogpiling," it just means there is a consensus in the reviews beginning to form. These twitter round-ups began sparking discussion for one page before the mods stepped in and claimed the opposite.

Long story short, I respect the mods so I immediately stopped posting the twitter round-ups. Several people asked for clarification, including me, and despite several attempts, I still don't really understand the reasoning and I still firmly believe if I did three posts in a row of twitter round-ups that were all positive after a Harry Potter opening, nothing would have been said and nothing would have been done. It's also worth noting that none of what was said by Joe or Bryan really applied to what was happening (at least not in my eyes.) I wasn't "spamming," I wasn't "dogpiling," I was not posting in bad faith, and I was not only posting reviews with no other comments. I was also posting the maximum allowable number of embedded media in each post so going back and editing my original post to add more twitter reviews wasn't an option. Even if that were possible, it wouldn't really make sense on a forum when you're trying to gauge reaction as it comes in and follow along with the discussion anyway. Who knows, maybe I'm old school and have a fundamental misunderstanding of what happens in forums these days.

There you have it. I was doing what I actually love seeing on a forum after a ride opens completely unaware anyone would have an issue with it. I've migrated over here after 15 years at WDWMagic and been trying to learn the ropes but I feel as though I'll keep a low profile for now and only chime in every now and then. If posting a whopping three twitter round-ups on the day of a ride opening caused this much controversy I'm terrified what happens when there is actual heated debate going on.

How much more clarification does one need other than if you're gonna keep posting Twitter reviews, at least add to the discussion and expound on sharing the Tweets.... Apparently comprehension isn't your strong suit since you can't even spell my name right and it's right there in my username.....

You were shouting the sky is falling after March 21 because it was Spring and the ride hadn't opened - that the resort was all doom and gloom. You've said countless times that ride was bad....over.... and over.... and over.... You weren't posting Twitter reviews, you were picking and choosing the reviews that aligned with your POV. It's not much of what was posted but who was posting it. Hell, you were about to rip Universal over a rumor of placing another coaster next to Potter's. Basically, cry about it - no rationalization is going to excuse the fact that all we said was "Hey, add some insight."

Either way, you were the catalyst of the ball rolling down the hall - not the entire problem.

I am really done with this convo so forgive me for being so rash and rude but it's just tiring to see the same bullsh!t over and over...

@Ashhanbre @Andysol whatever hard on you have for @JungleSkip is going to rectified. Kumbaya the crap out right now....

 

[SpatulaShack]

How much more clarification does one need other than if you're gonna keep posting Twitter reviews, at least add to the discussion and expound on sharing the Tweets.... Apparently comprehension isn't your strong suit since you can't even spell my name right and it's right there in my username.....

You were shouting the sky is falling after March 21 because it was Spring and the ride hadn't opened - that the resort was all doom and gloom. You've said countless times that ride was bad..over.... and over.... and over....You weren't posting Twitter reviews, you picking and choosing the reviews that aligned with your POV. It's not much of what was posted but who was posting it. Hell, you were about to rip Universal over a rumor of placing another coaster next to Potter's. Basically, cry about it - no rationalizaiton is going to excuse the fact that all we said was "Hey, add some insight."

Either way, you were the catalyst of the ball rolling down the hall - not the entire problem.

I am really done with this convo so forgive me for being so rash and rude but it's just tiring to see the same bullsh!t over and over...

@Ashhanbre @Andysol whatever hard on you have for @JungleSkip is going to rectified. Kumbaya the crap out right now....

Good lord that was ridiculously uncalled for. I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong? People post twitter reviews with no insight all the time. It's what happens on every forum I visit. I explained that. I didn't know you guys have arbitrary rules that you apply to random people.

I was NOT posting twitter reviews that aligned with my point of view. I was posting them in real time. What I was posting was what was coming in. Go back and look at the opening announcement. There were no positive comments so none were posted. There was zero picking and choosing. You are literally making that up and/or repeating it because someone else said it? It's not true.

People post things all the time from social media and don't give full analysis. That's what the forum is for. Members will discuss it. What do you want from me? A dissertation every time a review is posted?

You're also picking posts from my history now and misunderstanding them and lying about intention. I never said the sky was falling because it was Spring and the ride hadn't opened. I never "ripped Universal" over the JP coaster rumor." I'm excited about that damn coaster. I want it to be built. I thought it was odd that they would build another one right after the Potter Coaster and right next door so I made a comment about how it was odd. Guess what!? Lots of people thought the same thing and said the same thing. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of me or my intention or something. I LOVE Universal. I've always LOVED Universal. I'm not some sort of Disney fan here complaining about things with no merit. The reaction to anything remotely critical around here is insane sensitivity.

 

[Ridgepole]

Oh my.....I promise to try and be good

 

[Ashhanbre]

The glory of being an admin, or mod, is the ability to view history. The original:



It's a fine point.

But going back and re-editing it 3 more times; adding "being shook", the house on fire image, and other lil quips was just added for the sake of dogpiling. He's been warned several times to tone it back (to the tune of users asking he needs to chill).

But yet when we report a person doing the same thing on the other side of the argument you reject our report. Its a double standard. No matter how much you want to deny it. You know its true. If a person agrees with your point of view then they can say and do what they want, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE AN INSIDER. But if someone says something you don't agree with they are told to pipe down. And you try to tell me that I have personal feelings toward a user. Yeah right. How about you looking at everyone on this site with a straight face and tell them you don't give extra rope to Joe and Jungle Skip. And both treat other users really bad at times. How about this...you just lost a user to this site, which I'm sure you won't care about because I'm not an insider. Ban me, whatever. I won't be back. YOU REALLY NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR and figure out what you want this site to be. This issue has come up multiple times. You can't keep sweeping it under the rug. I'm sure everyone on this site won't see this post as I'm sure you'll delete it after you ban me.

 

[Brian G.]

But yet when we report a person doing the same thing on the other side of the argument you reject our report. Its a double standard. No matter how much you want to deny it. You know its true. If a person agrees with your point of view then they can say and do what they want, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE AN INSIDER. But if someone says something you don't agree with they are told to pipe down. And you try to tell me that I have personal feelings toward a user. Yeah right. How about you looking at everyone on this site with a straight face and tell them you don't give extra rope to Joe and Jungle Skip. And both treat other users really bad at times. How about this...you just lost a user to this site, which I'm sure you won't care about because I'm not an insider. Ban me, whatever. I won't be back. YOU REALLY NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR and figure out what you want this site to be. This issue has come up multiple times. You can't keep sweeping it under the rug. I'm sure everyone on this site won't see this post as I'm sure you'll delete it after you ban me.

Is that why Miketheboss and Epcyclopedia lasted for so long? Because lord knows I was such a big fan of them....

@Nick and I always differed on opinion, yet here he is on the moderator team.

I also called out Joe last year when he crossed a line, publicly.

But sure, if that's what you wanna believe - that I favor my "friends" and "insiders".

 

[Brian G.]

Good lord that was ridiculously uncalled for. I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong? You appear to have the reading comprehension problem and if I do then so do many others since I'm not the only one puzzled by the sudden "you must add insight in order to post a review" rule that has randomly been applied. People post twitter reviews with no insight all the time. It's what happens on every forum I visit. I explained that. I didn't know you guys have arbitrary rules that you apply to random people. You also completely ignored all the insight I DID give. There was literally one post where I only posted twitter reviews and TWO posts where I did. Not that any insight is necessary when the insight is being created by the discussion.

Again. All we said was stop posting more Twitter reviews unless it adds to the discussion. If you're going to keep doing it - at least expound on a point you are trying to make. You may think it was OK, but others didn't need to see it over and over. You may not have liked the answer - but it wasn't completely unreasonable.

I was NOT posting twitter reviews that aligned with my point of view. I was posting them in real time. What I was posting was what was coming in. Go back and look at the opening announcement. There were no positive comments so none were posted. There was zero picking and choosing. You are literally making poop up at this point. 100% making stuff up.

None?





There were several more that happened after the whole shebang went down. Yes, there were more negative than positive - but it definitely wasn't "none".

People post things all the time from social media and don't give full analysis. That's what the forum is for. Members will discuss it. What do you want from me? A dissertation every time a review is posted?

Now I will admit, after looking back, we were being a bit more on the cautionary side - because we knew the crapstorm it was going to bring. Maybe we called it early? Either way - I don't think our decision was entirely out of line. You continued to post in the thread and we left you alone.

You're blatantly picking posts from my history now and misunderstanding them and lying about intention at this point too. Great job there by the way. Real professional. Would you like to add the posts in question? I never said the sky was falling because it was Spring and the ride hadn't opened. I never "ripped Universal over the JP coaster rumor?" I'm excited about that damn coaster. I want it to be built. I thought it was odd that the rumor is they would build another coaster right next to another new on in lands neighboring each other.

Now this is where most of my time had gone into posting...

Re: The Potter Coaster over an baseless, and old rumor.

And in typical Universal fashion... they've decided to build ANOTHER mine train-type ride immediately after this opens, in the same park, in a neighboring land. Oh Universal... such odd choices you've been making lately.

When someone asked - "So you are converting rumor to the next thing coming? Why?" - which went unanswered. Nothing in that statement dealt in maybe, and definitely did not sound like an opinion.

And excuse me - it wasn't sky is falling because of the opening date. You questioned what was the opening date, but were sky is falling over the silence of announcements.

It was earlier in the F&F thread where you even say "A lot of people will call this out as being doom and gloom"

A lot of people responded saying "it's nothing new".

You did however post this on April 4:

At some point they're going to have to change "Spring 2018" to something else. It IS Spring 2018 and we don't have a date for opening. Assuming TM previews and the usual several weeks of soft-opening, how exactly does this open by Spring? Maybe the last day of Spring on June 20th? As a reminder, Jimmy Fallon was open to guests for a soft opening on March 6th before opening officially in April. We're running out of days here.

2 weeks after Spring started...

In essence, at least in the past month, a lot of your posts have been reactionary. You even joked one time when someone replied to you about your reactionary posts - "lol. I guess my posts are coming off more dramatic than I mean for them to."

Guess what!? Lots of people thought the same thing. Guess what? Check out my post to like ratio. You appear to have some sort of issue with me but you and JungleSkip appear to be the only one. The fact that JungleSkip hasn't been banned 50 times over is beyond me given the insane stuff he says around here. Much like yourself, it borders on absolute delusion. I'm sad you've decided to attack me for defending myself but there you have it. Hope you're pleased with yourself.

I really don't have a problem with you. I've been handling forum users as an Admin for 10 years, and before that had 6 years on IOAC. I know what to look for to avoid issues - which is what I was trying to do. Ultimately, it led to more issues. Skip, I can agree can come across arrogant - but it is not breaking rules. I think anyone can tell you that we've had a lot of people that have done worse than Skip and managed to still post for a bit, until they finally broke a rule.

Now I will apologize for how my initial post came across and being rude in some regard - but I was definitely not delusional.

 

[SpatulaShack]

Just so we are clear "Whoohoooo with a picture of a car is not a positive review. They were in the queue. They were excited to ride. Why would I post that in a review round up? The second one you posted appeared AFTER I was told to stop posting reviews. I was posting them in the order they were appearing so unless I could time travel... I couldn't post it.

I'm too tired to continue this because it's clear you will go to great lengths to prove something that isn't true... even being intellectually dishonest by twisting statements and ignoring all the positive and insightful things I've said on here since joining and acting like I'm some kind of troll. Go to the Harry Potter coaster thread and all that is there from me is excitement and speculation.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree and moving on with no negativity. I respect what you do but I disagreed with the way it was done and that's that.

 

[belloq87]

As far as I’m concerned, I’m just a guest here, and I don’t particularly think that criticizing my hosts is good form, so I am very reluctant to wade into these waters. There are a many things I love about this place. You all do a lot right.

However...

I do think, whether intentional or not, certain folks get a bit of a longer leash than others, and certain opinions (perhaps ones more critical of something Universal is doing) sometimes can be... well, if not “shouted down” at least usually rigorously challenged or simply brushed aside. That’s not a complaint (or rather, I’ve never complained about it), but it’s definitely a sort of undercurrent I’ve picked up on after being part of this community for a few years.

I don’t share this to criticize, but instead to let the appropriate people know that it’s a perception that is not entirely unfounded, and I could see it as sometimes counterproductive to being a 100% welcoming environment for new folks who might want to join the community.

Again, I love it here, and this is not meant as an attack on anybody or on the management style of the mods. I’m just putting it out there as some food for thought.

 

[Brian G.]

As far as I’m concerned, I’m just a guest here, and I don’t particularly think that criticizing my hosts is good form, so I am very reluctant to wade into these waters. There are a many things I love about this place. You all do a lot right.

However...

I do think, whether intentional or not, certain folks get a bit of a longer leash than others, and certain opinions (perhaps ones more critical of something Universal is doing) sometimes can be... well, if not “shouted down” at least usually rigorously challenged or simply brushed aside. That’s not a complaint (or rather, I’ve never complained about it), but it’s definitely a sort of undercurrent I’ve picked up on after being part of this community for a few years.

I don’t share this to criticize, but instead to let the appropriate people know that it’s a perception that is not entirely unfounded, and I could see it as sometimes counterproductive to being a 100% welcoming environment for new folks who might want to join the community.

Again, I love it here, and this is not meant as an attack on anybody or on the management style of the mods. I’m just putting it out there as some food for thought.

It’s certainly something I’ll look into. It’s not intentional. I think everyone can attest I have a pretty level head but maybe online an opinion can get lost in translation. Were still fans at the end of the day.

This is not aimed at you but I do want to point out something unrelated; and is meant for the few people that have a problem with how things are run. They didn’t volunteer or speak up in the past when opportunity presented itself - nor have we seen any of these people volunteer them self to part of the solution of “unfairness” and offer to join the mod team. Just a couple of my 2 cents.

Also this holds true today, but I posted this 2 years ago when we initially started this thread.

I've seen the same 3-4 who disagree with them try to "come at them hard". It's been a back and forth type-deal. It's basically, "oh this person posted, here comes the rebuttal from this one" and like clockwork - it happens. In the future, if you feel someone is arrogant, PM a mod and we will handle each situation appropriately.

This problem still exists today and does not help matters at all. You can’t complain about a problem yet be a part of the problem.

As far as @Ashhanbre - I don’t mean this with disrespect, but you’re an adult; Maybe instead of directing your anger at me for “too much rope” - you could’ve reached out to Skip by Pm and come to an understanding. If not, the ignore button is there for a reason.

 

[Brian G.]

Just so we are clear "Whoohoooo with a picture of a car is not a positive review. They were in the queue. They were excited to ride. Why would I post that in a review round up? The second one you posted appeared AFTER I was told to stop posting reviews. I was posting them in the order they were appearing so unless I could time travel... I couldn't post it.

I'm too tired to continue this because it's clear you will go to great lengths to prove something that isn't true... even being intellectually dishonest by twisting statements and ignoring all the positive and insightful things I've said on here since joining and acting like I'm some kind of troll. Go to the Harry Potter coaster thread and all that is there from me is excitement and speculation.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree and moving on with no negativity. I respect what you do but I disagreed with the way it was done and that's that.

I’m not being intellectually dishonest at all and won’t stand for that. Those are your words. I posted them verbatim, as you posted. I posted other people’s reactions, verbatim. Other people besides mods called you out for it.

Again, not trying to demonize you. Just pointing out you’ve posted in the past with a reactionary emotion. It happens. I just did it with the initial comprehension jab I took. I apologized for a crossing a line but don’t you dare call me that - because now you’re crossing into a new one.

 

[SpatulaShack]

I’m not being intellectually dishonest at all and won’t stand for that. Those are your words. I posted them verbatim, as you posted. I posted other people’s reactions, verbatim. Other people besides mods called you out for it.

Again, not trying to demonize you. Just pointing out you’ve posted in the past with a reactionary emotion. It happens. I just did it with the initial comprehension jab I took. I apologized for a crossing a line but don’t you dare call me that - because now you’re crossing into a new one.

I was referring to you finding one positive review that was tweeted after I was told to stop posting them and using it as evidence I was picking and choosing. That's being intentionally dishonest to prove a point in my eyes.

I wasn't referring to the quote you posted where I pointed out the absurdity of building two outdoor coasters next to each other a year apart but you seem to think that is some kind of smoking gun? And you ignored all the other points I made (conveniently) Yes the JW coaster is a rumor. Yes it will probably happen. Yes I could have worded it better. What part of my post is so outrageous it should be called out here? I'm not perfect. I'm sorry I didn't point out it was a rumor (supported by 5 insiders) before making the comment? Would you like to post some of my positive comments on here? How about the insightful ones in the Harry Potter thread? Remember when you thought I was the one picking and choosing here? Sigh.