Attendance Tracker

[GadgetGuru]

I just don't understand F&W. There's a whole bunch of food stands. As a foodie, I can get behind that.

But, how is it such a large attendance driver? It seems squarely focused at locals and WDW seems way too big to be able to have its profitability dictated by locals.

(Disneyland can get away with being more of a locals park because the LA Metro area alone is massive)

 

[JungleSkip]

I just don't understand F&W. There's a whole bunch of food stands. As a foodie, I can get behind that.

But, how is it such a large attendance driver? It seems squarely focused at locals and WDW seems way too big to be able to have its profitability dictated by locals.

(Disneyland can get away with being more of a locals park because the LA Metro area alone is massive)

F&W is great in theory, terrible in execution. So many sloppy drunks. I don't know how people actually enjoy themselves there

 

[GadgetGuru]

F&W is great in theory, terrible in execution. So many sloppy drunks. I don't know how people actually enjoy themselves there

After watching vloggers, it just seems like crazy long lines so you can pay real-world-counter-service prices for a couple bites of food.

Orlando's got a great food scene. Epcot's got a great food scene on a regular day. I just don't understand why F+W is a big yearly event when I can basically get all of it on a normal day.

 

[Mad Dog]

I went to the F&W a couple of years ago and was duly unimpressed. Places up here have been doing that type of thing, on a grander scale, for the last 50 years. But we really like the Spring Garden Show at Epcot. That always impresses.

 

[Nick]

That’s an assumption I don’t think I can agree with, but if you change it to “replaced by” I could agree.

That’s probably a better way to state it.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I hope it does. The current building boom is more interesting than anything Disney has done since Animal Kingdom, for me. I want it to continue, as it's also pushing Uni forward. But I worry Disney thinks SW will cure all its ills, and I just don't see that happening.

That's my thing, it's one situation to get the BoD to approve a few billion to go into a resort with new competition once, it's harder to maintain expenditures. I don't want Disney to walk away in 2022/2023 and go "YUP OUR WORK IS DONE, BLUE OCEAN AGAIN." MM+ totally screwed WDW over.

In general, WDW has been seeing between 2%-4% decrease in attendance since 2016. But the 30% this fall is mostly people not showing up for F&W. That has caused MNSSHP to take a hit also, but MNSSHP is still very popular. F&W not so much. I expect to see some changes to it for next year.

Disney is also becoming concerned about SW:GE and how it will play out. After the last 2 SW films under performing, they are starting to worry about SW:GE.

What are you talking about, TEA said attendance was going up up up! You're saying DHS isn't getting 10+ million guests a year when they're daily projections are around 10k of guests per day?

 

[GadgetGuru]

MM+ totally screwed WDW over.

I always thought MM+ was more about resort infrastructure in the first place?

As I understood it, WDW needed a whole bunch of IT (and other) infrastructure upgrades. The bill was going to be enormous. The only way to get it approved was to make it flashy and sell it to the public. So, MM+ was more properly developed. MM+ would be a thing that guests would like, but more importantly, it could be used as a infinite budget item to get infrastructure maintenance done

 

[JoeCamel]

I always thought MM+ was more about resort infrastructure in the first place?

As I understood it, WDW needed a whole bunch of IT (and other) infrastructure upgrades. The bill was going to be enormous. The only way to get it approved was to make it flashy and sell it to the public. So, MM+ was more properly developed. MM+ would be a thing that guests would like, but more importantly, it could be used as a infinite budget item to get infrastructure maintenance done

So what do you think Staggs is doing today?

 

[Nick]

I always thought MM+ was more about resort infrastructure in the first place?

As I understood it, WDW needed a whole bunch of IT (and other) infrastructure upgrades. The bill was going to be enormous. The only way to get it approved was to make it flashy and sell it to the public. So, MM+ was more properly developed. MM+ would be a thing that guests would like, but more importantly, it could be used as a infinite budget item to get infrastructure maintenance done

It was and was sold that way.

It has never worked the way it was pitched though. The system as a whole is good aside from the FP+ side of things.

 

[Mad Dog]

I still remember the Executive pushing it (Staggs or Russulo, my memory's not sure), publicly said it was about getting more money out of the customer's wallets, and that's how they sold the project to the Disney Board of Directors.. On a number of occasions, during quarterly report calls, Iger was asked to quantify the financial return on My Magic. He always avoided answering the question.

 

[Teebin]

I wonder if we will see any hotel projects being put on indefinite hold. Star Wars and the Universal parking lot hotel come to mind.

 

[JungleSkip]

I wonder if we will see any hotel projects being put on indefinite hold. Star Wars and the Universal parking lot hotel come to mind.

Uni parking lot hotel? You mean Endless Summer Pt 2? Because construction has started on that, I believe

 

[JoeCamel]

I wonder if we will see any hotel projects being put on indefinite hold. Star Wars and the Universal parking lot hotel come to mind.

Uni parking lot hotel? You mean Endless Summer Pt 2? Because construction has started on that, I believe

I think he may mean Epcot parking lot hotel

 

[Teebin]

Uni parking lot hotel? You mean Endless Summer Pt 2? Because construction has started on that, I believe

Yes, I cannot recall all the silly hotel names. Construction has only started with pile driving from what I have seen. It was just a thought that some hotels might take a hit.

I think he may mean Epcot parking lot hotel

That too!

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I always thought MM+ was more about resort infrastructure in the first place?

As I understood it, WDW needed a whole bunch of IT (and other) infrastructure upgrades. The bill was going to be enormous. The only way to get it approved was to make it flashy and sell it to the public. So, MM+ was more properly developed. MM+ would be a thing that guests would like, but more importantly, it could be used as a infinite budget item to get infrastructure maintenance done

Sort of. Yes a lot of infrastructure was improved under the MM+/MDX system but this was a necessity to complete the ultimate goal: tracking guests, increasing spending, and custom tailoring CM deployment. Disney spent something over one billion dollars on what in the end they could have contracted out for a fraction of that amount.

• Guest tracking was stopped (both macro and micro) by inquiries from the US SENATE
• Guest spending never increased by putting a card on the wrist, folk tale is the results the MDX crew wanted and got was due to giving guests Monopoly money to spend as part of the trail and not their own money.
• Reduction in CMs was tried but never worked and due to the guest tracking being removed it could never be implemented as a cost saving measure.

In the end WDW got a system that cost hundreds of millions of dollars more than it should have, does a fraction of what it was designed to do, is incredibly cumbersome and hard to upgrade, and never paid back in the ways it was meant to (increased guest spending, decreased CM costs).

So yeah MDX/MM+ is a mess and a total self own for WDW. There's a reason why anyone involved with it are no longer at Disney.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

I don't think I'll be renewing my Disney AP in November. I'm going to Tallahassee for school in January, so my access to Orlando is going to be limited. I'm sure I'll be home for Spring Break, but outside of that, am I really going to be making trips to Orlando during the semester? It's hard to justify paying $400 to renew my Silver pass when it's significantly cheaper to do the 4 day select pass and the MK parties. If the Silver pass was $300 to renew, I'd consider renewing it, but at that price, it's too much when I'll be living 4 hours away. I'll probably keep Universal, but I might lower it from Premier. The HHN ticket has too many blackout dates for it to be a good value personally, and I won't really need Express after 4 anymore when any potential trips would be all day. At $280, Preferred would probably be better for me.

 

[Teebin]

If it is so slow at WDW then why do they have this grass parking? Does it really mean that every square inch of the lot is filled?

 

[JoeCamel]

If it is so slow at WDW then why do they have this grass parking? Does it really mean that every square inch of the lot is filled?

Might be a race event. I know they have a big deal at the sports complex so maybe they will be there today. Races they close about half the parking.

 

[Teebin]

Might be a race event. I know they have a big deal at the sports complex so maybe they will be there today. Races they close about half the parking.

Ah yes... and thus we have Bio’s presence.

Did you spot Bio at HHN the other night Joe? He was taking and posting pictures at the same time as you during the event.

 

[Mad Dog]

Ah yes... and thus we have Bio’s presence.

Did you spot Bio at HHN the other night Joe? He was taking and posting pictures at the same time as you during the event.

"Dueling Photogs" ? .......and on the serious side, Touring Plans announced that "Disney handed out pink slips in it's consumer products and interactive media segment".