COO and Iger Heir Apparent Tom Staggs Leaving Disney

[JungleSkip]

If you look at singular figures this may be true, but if you look at the overall console business, I don't believe it is. I could be wrong though.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. No console has sold at the level of PS4 through its current lifetime. XBOX One is selling more consoles than Xbox 360 and PS3 did at the same time. Those are not signs of a struggling market.

If consoles are still selling well, the cost of making AAA games is still a very risky proposition these days. It's why the industry has become dominated with annual sequels and remakes. More and more reliance on paid DLC to help fund the game further.

No more risky than a blockbuster movie, which are also "dominated by annual sequels and remakes". Good thing more and more Indy developers are delivering first class experiences.

 

[Stitch_101]

If you look at singular figures this may be true, but if you look at the overall console business, I don't believe it is. I could be wrong though.

If consoles are still selling well, the cost of making AAA games is still a very risky proposition these days. It's why the industry has become dominated with annual sequels and remakes. More and more reliance on paid DLC to help fund the game further.

Consoles are selling very well. The problem is the software for consoles. PS4 is on track to become one of, if not the largest selling console of all time, however currently it has one of the lowest games purchased per console owned ratios. The problem with that is the market is becoming saturated with AAA titles, with far to many being released in key points of the year. Couple that with high new game prices and consumers are being far more picking with game purchases and many play the games to 100% completion before moving on to the next, which for some games takes quite a bit of time and detication.

 

[Ultranel]

All I hear is buy, buy, buy.... whatever happen to create! It's funny how in today's world we measure success by $$$ amounts and not by what we do! There's no pride anymore, we just say have it. Useless hopeless words, that's what we are all about now. Everyone talks about how successful Disney is now, and I say, how already established and successful Marvel and Lucasfilm made Disney relevant again.

 

[JungleSkip]

Consoles are selling very well. The problem is the software for consoles. PS4 is on track to become one of, if not the largest selling console of all time, however currently it has one of the lowest games purchased per console owned ratios. The problem with that is the market is becoming saturated with AAA titles, with far to many being released in key points of the year. Couple that with high new game prices and consumers are being far more picking with game purchases and many play the games to 100% completion before moving on to the next, which for some games takes quite a bit of time and detication.

"High new game prices" are a myth. Games have literally never been cheaper than they are today.

And while game sales are slightly down from comparable times last generation, publishers are hardly struggling

 

[Stitch_101]

"High new game prices" are a myth. Games have literally never been cheaper than they are today.

And while game sales are slightly down from comparable times last generation, publishers are hardly struggling

I would counter that the American dollar doesn't go nearly as far today either thanks to inflation. Based on rate of inflation vs rate of income, it was easier for people to pay more for new games 20 years ago then it is for them today. And publishers aren't necessarily struggling, but they are feeling the effects. Just look at the changes they attempted to make to pre-owned game sales a couple years ago as well an increase in paid DLC.

Wow, who knew my Nintendo comment would derail this thread so much LOL. Probably should get back on topic.

 

[JungleSkip]

I would counter that the American dollar doesn't go nearly as far today either thanks to inflation. Based on rate of inflation vs rate of income, it was easier for people to pay more for new games 20 years ago then it is for them today. And publishers aren't necessarily struggling, but they are feeling the effects. Just look at the changes they attempted to make to pre-owned game sales a couple years ago as well an increase in paid DLC.

Games for systems like the NES and SNES were routinely more than $60. Adjusted for inflation they'd be WAY more than that.

Here's a good look at it: Why retail console games have never been cheaper, historically | Ars Technica

Paid DLC is what it is. I don't see it any different than 3D/IMAX upcharges for movies. It's trying to maximize profit.

 

[Stitch_101]

Games for systems like the NES and SNES were routinely more than $60. Adjusted for inflation they'd be WAY more than that.

Here's a good look at it: Why retail console games have never been cheaper, historically | Ars Technica

Paid DLC is what it is. I don't see it any different than 3D/IMAX upcharges for movies. It's trying to maximize profit.

I understand that, but what the article fails to mention is the difference in the inflation of game prices to the value of the dollar and what consumers are willing to spend. Yes, adjusting for inflation of game prices were more expensive back then. But the American dollar was more stable then, as was the price of priority needs like health care and utilities, especially in the SuperNES and N64/PlayStation era, so consumers had more confidence is making those purchases. Today, while games prices may be lower then ever, prices for everything else continue to sky rocket, making it difficult for a lot of people to justify spending $60 for a game, regardless if it is technically cheaper now then 20 years ago. The proof is in the numbers. At this point in its life cycle, the PlayStation had nearly triple the console sale to games sale ratio that the PS4 has now.

 

[rhino4evr]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. No console has sold at the level of PS4 through its current lifetime. XBOX One is selling more consoles than Xbox 360 and PS3 did at the same time. Those are not signs of a struggling market.



No more risky than a blockbuster movie, which are also "dominated by annual sequels and remakes". Good thing more and more Indy developers are delivering first class experiences.

I think the big piece of the pie that is missing is Nintendo. The Wii and DS were a tremendous success globally. If you look at ALL console sales combined including Nintendo, you are seeing a general decline in console business. Sony may be selling more consoles, but I don't think the gap between Wii and Wii U makes up that difference.

AAA gaming has crippled a lot of great ideas and new concepts from getting off the ground . Yes, indies and smaller budgeted games have kind of saved the day, but these are still smaller projects and ideas in the long run.

My point was, that buying a game developer is not exactly a "sure" bet. Nintendo may still be making a profit, but the NX has some serious catch up work to do if they expect to be at Wii/DS levels.

 

[JungleSkip]

I think the big piece of the pie that is missing is Nintendo. The Wii and DS were a tremendous success globally. If you look at ALL console sales combined including Nintendo, you are seeing a general decline in console business. Sony may be selling more consoles, but I don't think the gap between Wii and Wii U makes up that difference.

The Wii held almost no sway over the business as a whole, though. It was a weird outlier even if it sold well. No one made games for it, because, largely, no one bought games for it.

AAA gaming has crippled a lot of great ideas and new concepts from getting off the ground . Yes, indies and smaller budgeted games have kind of saved the day, but these are still smaller projects and ideas in the long run.

Do you play games? Because I don't think you do. I've never seen a more creative time in video games than what we're in right now.

My point was, that buying a game developer is not exactly a "sure" bet. Nintendo may still be making a profit, but the NX has some serious catch up work to do if they expect to be at Wii/DS levels.

As always, content is king. Nintendo has by far the biggest stable of IP in gaming. The NX is a dumb move for them, and it's absolutely never going to sell as well as the PS4 or Xbox One, but the minute Nintendo realizes they'll be better off making games for the other two, they'll be the most profitable publisher in gaming.

 

[Mad Dog]

Wow, and I get lectured often for going off topic. This isn't even close to topic. ....But I always enjoy a good conversation. Please continue.

 

[Stitch_101]

The Wii held almost no sway over the business as a whole, though. It was a weird outlier even if it sold well. No one made games for it, because, largely, no one bought games for it.



Do you play games? Because I don't think you do. I've never seen a more creative time in video games than what we're in right now.



As always, content is king. Nintendo has by far the biggest stable of IP in gaming. The NX is a dumb move for them, and it's absolutely never going to sell as well as the PS4 or Xbox One, but the minute Nintendo realizes they'll be better off making games for the other two, they'll be the most profitable publisher in gaming.

I don't see Nintendo giving up in the console market, not anytime soon. I'm not willing to write off the NX just yet, but even if it fails to sell as well as the PS4 and X-Box One, the company will survive. Even with the WiiU struggling like it has been, Nintendo's current profit margin is larger then Sony's PlayStation division. And I wouldn't trump up X-Box One as a massive success either. In Japan, one of if not the largest market for video games, the X-Box One is currently the worse selling console... By a huge margin. For some reason Microsoft has struggled with all their consoles in many international territories.

Anyways, about that Disney guy quiting! Crazy right?!?!

 

[JungleSkip]

I don't see Nintendo giving up in the console market, not anytime soon. I'm not willing to write off the NX just yet, but even if it fails to sell as well as the PS4 and X-Box One, the company will survive. Even with the WiiU struggling like it has been, Nintendo's current profit margin is larger then Sony's PlayStation division. And I wouldn't trump up X-Box One as a massive success either. In Japan, one of if not the largest market for video games, the X-Box One is currently the worse selling console... By a huge margin. For some reason Microsoft has struggled with all their consoles in many international territories.

Anyways, about that Disney guy quiting! Crazy right?!?!

Japan is no where near the market it once was for console gaming. Mobile is king in Japan.

But no, Nintendo can't survive another flop like the Wii U.

 

[Stitch_101]

Japan is no where near the market it once was for console gaming. Mobile is king in Japan.

But no, Nintendo can't survive another flop like the Wii U.

It's not just the X-One that has struggled there though. It's EVERY Microsoft console released. And I'd beg to differ with the Nintendo's ability to survive. They are already taking steps that will help minimize any negative effects of a potential NX failure. Their first mobile app is skyrocketing, and that's not even based on any of their AAA properties. And the WiiU has sold poorly, however it came on the heals of the HUGE selling Wii. And say what you will about software sales for the Wii but the Wii actually made a profit per sale unlike the PS3 and X-Box 360 which sold under manufacturing costs. PS3 and X-Box 360 relied on software sales to be profitable. The Wii did not. Oh, and I'd also like to point out that the WiiU has almost double the console to game purchase ratio that the PS4 does. So while the PS4 sells more consoles, WiiU owners put more money into there systems then PS4 owners. Another reason why Nintendo has weathered the WiiU storm.

 

[JungleSkip]

It's not just the X-One that has struggled there though. It's EVERY Microsoft console released. And I'd beg to differ with the Nintendo's ability to survive. They are already taking steps that will help minimize any negative effects of a potential NX failure. Their first mobile app is skyrocketing, and thast not even based on any of their AAA properties. If Nintendo does bow out of the home console market, I see them pushing the mobile market hard, both their own handheld consoles and mobile phones, and forgo developing for other home consoles.

And never make a game for a home console again? That'd be dumb and a completely inept business decision.

And it remains to be seen how Miitomo holds up. It did great for a week in Japan before falling off a cliff, which it could very well do elsewhere. It's a cute app, but I don't see it having longevity. Also, the handheld market is shrinking rapidly. Don't see that being a way forward.

 

[Stitch_101]

And never make a game for a home console again? That'd be dumb and a completely inept business decision.

And it remains to be seen how Miitomo holds up. It did great for a week in Japan before falling off a cliff, which it could very well do elsewhere. It's a cute app, but I don't see it having longevity. Also, the handheld market is shrinking rapidly. Don't see that being a way forward.

Only time will tell who is right. However, I think you are being a little to pessimistic about Nintendo's future. They are in a transition period that could very well change the company for the better. I for one am excited by new information coming out about the NX. Let's just hope they don't fumble the marketing for it, which was the biggest issue with the WiiU on release. Many consumers didn't realize it was a new console and thought it was just an add on to the existing Wii. That lead to poor system launch sales, which lead to third party support they had lined up bailing on the console, which lead to further decrease in console sales. By the time they saw an uptick in sales the damage was beyond repair.

 

[JungleSkip]

Only time will tell who is right. However, I think you are being a little to pessimistic about Nintendo's future. They are in a transition period that could very well change the company for the better. I for one am excited by new information coming out about the NX. Let's just hope they don't fumble the marketing for it, which was the biggest issue with the WiiU on release. Many consumers didn't realize it was a new console and thought it was just an add on to the existing Wii.

I absolutely love Nintendo, and am a Nintendo fanboy, but the rumors so far about the NX lead me to believe it's going to have the same problem the Wii and Wii U had of developers not wanting to deal with its funky setup, and gamers not wanting to deal with its goofy controller.

 

[Stitch_101]

I absolutely love Nintendo, and am a Nintendo fanboy, but the rumors so far about the NX lead me to believe it's going to have the same problem the Wii and Wii U had of developers not wanting to deal with its funky setup, and gamers not wanting to deal with its goofy controller.

Yeah, they need to learn that the novelty of the Wii was just that, and most gamers don't really want new innovations in how you PLAY home console games, they want innovation within the games themselves. This is why I don't see the VR headsets doing as well as some believe.

 

[RevFreako]

I think I would literally be sick if Nintendo was bought by Disney.

I would never stop laughing.

 

[Brian G.]

Alright, guys....

COO and Staggs, and all that.

 

[Stitch_101]

Alright, guys....

COO and Staggs, and all that.

Who is this Staggs guy you speak of?

So back on topic... I wonder if Comcast is already taking steps invade Burke is approached with an offer... Hmmmm