Director James Gunn under fire for offensive tweets [Update: Fired]

[Lucky Planet]

If Gunn called me a derogatory word to my face I wouldn’t forgive him, no. But he didn’t. He made juvenile 8th grade level “attempts of humor” directed at no one in particular, in the instances given. While tasteless and unfunny, they weren’t hateful or derogatory towards a person, or group of people, in the way that Mr. Richards’s comments were.

my point is that comedians getting burned for their "jokes" is not new. twitter itself is a (relatively) new platform and people are starting to regret their tweets, but it isnt new to see a comedian ge burned for controversial things. Bill Maher comes to mind too.

Really? At no point in time was that played off as a joke.

he was on stage performing a comedic act and replying to a heckler was he not? was he being serious or just joking?
was James gunn being serious or just joking? :shrug:

where does it end?

 

[Alicia]

my point is that comedians getting burned for their "jokes" is not new. twitter itself is a (relatively) new platform and people are starting to regret their tweets, but it isnt new to see a comedian ge burned for controversial things. Bill Maher comes to mind too.

Those are examples of people using hateful speech though. I see a difference. Being derogatory towards a single person or a group of people will always be far more unacceptable to me than other forms of speech.

Not defending anyone by the way. Tweeting dumb stuff is never a good idea.

Bob Saget is one of the dirtiest comedians working today, but his Twitter seems squeaky clean. Because it’s not the place for it. He saves the act for ticket buying patrons. His clean public posts allow him to keep making family friendly content like Fuller House. Now, if he went on a racist tirade during a stand up routine one day, sure, he should lose his Netflix show contract. But his (extremely) dirty material is not racist. So, despite telling what might be considered “offensive” jokes, but in the right context, and in the right forum, no harm done.

 

[Brian G.]

my point is that comedians getting burned for their "jokes" is not new. twitter itself is a (relatively) new platform and people are starting to regret their tweets, but it isnt new to see a comedian ge burned for controversial things. Bill Maher comes to mind too.



he was on stage performing a comedic act and replying to a heckler was he not? was he being serious or just joking?
was James gunn being serious or just joking? :shrug:

where does it end?

Well, using one of the most deragatory, insulting words against a whole race is not acceptable - and I don’t think using it as a parallel to the Gunn case is appropriate.

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

^I agree, “joking” about raping children is about as low as it goes, it’s evil.

 

[Clive]

There are a whole lot of people participating in this thread who are either engaging in willful ignorance or are debating in bad faith.

Many others here have outlined the substantial difference between Roseanne's racism and Gunn's trash jokes. If you can't digest the difference, you're looking to condemn instead of see any nuance.

 

[Brian G.]

^I agree, “joking” about raping children is about as low as it goes, it’s evil.

It was clear it was a joke. You wanna discuss the merits of how disgusting it was, go ahead.

The Michael Richards incident was during a comedy show where a white man called a black man (the heckler) by that word and went on about slavery and the Jim Crow era.

The Code asked where the line/difference was. There it is.

I also don’t want this conversation to dip into the Richards incident anymore - as I’m pretty positive 95% of this board is not in any place to judge and dissect the usage of said word.

 

[Brian G.]

There are a whole lot of people participating in this thread who are either engaging in willful ignorance or are debating in bad faith.

Many others here have outlined the substantial difference between Roseanne's racism and Gunn's trash jokes. If you can't digest the difference, you're looking to condemn instead of see any nuance.

I agree. There’s a lot of “If A=B then,”

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Coming back to the discussion at hand.

At first, I was (and still am in some thought) miffed of Gunn's comments. And that to me, I wasn't surprised and somewhat expected the fire to occur. At the end, his words spoken, even if it from was at a far period of time; were still there. And the fact of him going out and deleting some of those tweets (if I'm not mistaken) didn't make the scenario better.

However, I have calmed down; and have thought more about the scenario at hand. And to be honest, I'm not as harsh on him than before because of one simple thing: He already went out of his way prior to the Marvel hiring to apologize for his behavior back then. And that, since then; he has been a better person (at-least, from what I have seen from him in the past few years).

As it stands, I think it'll be rather hard of him getting back to Marvel. But that I don't think he will lose his career because of it. Perhaps it's an illusive thought, but I do think he'll be better in the future, and that time will heal the wounds he made.

I am hopeful Disney can heal the wounds they and Gunn have now had; but I am not expecting it to happen out of the blue. It'll take time and patience, at-least, to what I believe.

(I apologize if this post shouldn't of been said, but I wanted to clear my mind and think albeit..more rationally than when I was thinking.)

 

[Nick]

This and the Roseanne situation are not in anyway alike as many have pointed out. He wasn't targeting a specific individual like she was with hateful language. It was ill-advised, 10-year old tweet tweets that were pointed at no one in particular. Just sort of thrown out there for the shock comedy he was going for at the time.

Tone is the real key. If he was doing stand-up, an expanded version of a joke like that may have killed. Look at someone like Bill Burr or Joe Rogan for example. They say things all the time that would never convey well in plain, written text. But because you can hear the proper tone and context to which they are telling the joke from, it's hilarious, even if the subject may otherwise be uncomfortable.

James Gunn however has since apologized multiple times and hasn't done anymore jokes like this, so that should have earned him some credit. But again, the issue is, as I said earlier in the thread, once you become an issue for the BRAND, you become a liability. Whether that's fair or not I think has been discussed at length here already, but it's how the climate is currently.

 

[MrRoamer]

It looks like this new tactic is escalating to other media people (surprising I know), Dan Harmon appears to be another target with a similar thing to Gunn. He was in some shock comedy show back almost 10 years ago.

Rick and Morty co-creator leaves Twitter after 4chan, far-right spread old, offensive skit - Polygon

 

[Lucky Planet]

Well, using one of the most deragatory, insulting words against a whole race is not acceptable - and I don’t think using it as a parallel to the Gunn case is appropriate.

what was kind of insane was when Jerry Seinfeld Defend Kramer and said he was just joking and hes not racist

There are a whole lot of people participating in this thread who are either engaging in willful ignorance or are debating in bad faith.

Many others here have outlined the substantial difference between Roseanne's racism and Gunn's trash jokes. If you can't digest the difference, you're looking to condemn instead of see any nuance.

yes, it is Not a parallel to Gunn's case, but the outcomes are. Roseanne and Kramer and now Gunn all have lost their jobs and hurt their careers. the cases are not parallel but what is parallel is the outcome. the reaction from people is of disgust.

Even though the situations are not equal, even though the cases are not the same, all 3 of them did something really shocking and all of them are paying for it. there was no defending them, most of society rejected their shocking joke and most people understood why they got fired. . (Gunn might have made those tweets 10 years ago, but 80% of the public never new, this can be proved by the amount of people surprised by the tweets, those were not well known)

so while the cases might not be equal, because they are NOT Equal obviously. the outcomes were equal. they damaged their careers by saying something shocking. pedophilia and racism are obviously not equal. but the reaction was almost the same. to get them fired.

the original' question someone had was "are comedians going to pay for their shocking humor" and my reply was, Kramer already did. that was the context where I mentioned Kramer. context matters guys..... come on.

 

[Lucky Planet]

It looks like this new tactic is escalating to other media people (surprising I know), Dan Harmon appears to be another target with a similar thing to Gunn. He was in some shock comedy show back almost 10 years ago.

Rick and Morty co-creator leaves Twitter after 4chan, far-right spread old, offensive skit - Polygon

director Lexi Alexander (directed punisher war zone) deleted her Twitter account after expressing concern about Hollywood’s habit of telling child sex jokes, citing distress she is experiencing once the heat came down on her.

“You know…I get that the ‘alt-right’ is going after Hollywood…but is it normal to have that many high profile people within one industry who love to make jokes about pedophilia?” Alexander asked. “An estimated 25% of girls and 16% of boys experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. LOL ?”

 

[Alicia]

director Lexi Alexander (directed punisher war zone) deleted her Twitter account after expressing concern about Hollywood’s habit of telling child sex jokes, citing distress she is experiencing once the heat came down on her.

“You know…I get that the ‘alt-right’ is going after Hollywood…but is it normal to have that many high profile people within one industry who love to make jokes about pedophilia?” Alexander asked. “An estimated 25% of girls and 16% of boys experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. LOL ?”

It’s definitely time for certain types of jokes about certain subjects to be retired. Lazy jokes about shocking things offer nothing new to the world. So, I agree that people need to grow up and tell better jokes, if they’re going to tell jokes at all.

A trope that needs to go away is the jail rape joke. So lazily and carelessness thrown out in our media that you’ll find it in many comedy films, sitcoms, and even childrens cartoon shows. Kids know the “don’t drop the soap” cliche about jail before they fully understand what it means. At this point in our history, it’s probably time to acknowledge that casual, lazy rape jokes like these should probably be retired.

I wouldn’t call it an obsession though. Just immature lazy joke telling that goes for the easy shock value.

 

[MrRoamer]

It’s definitely time for certain types of jokes about certain subjects to be retired. Lazy jokes about shocking things offer nothing new to the world. So, I agree that people need to grow up and tell better jokes, if they’re going to tell jokes at all.

A trope that needs to go away is the jail rape joke.

Its fine to want to retire these jokes now because they are lazy, but this is all nearly a decade in the past... and a lot of people tell jokes about situations/bad things that have/can happen which are most horrific to them to take away power from those things, similar to the concept of the Boggart.

 

[Andysol]

director Lexi Alexander (directed punisher war zone) deleted her Twitter account after expressing concern about Hollywood’s habit of telling child sex jokes, citing distress she is experiencing once the heat came down on her.

“You know…I get that the ‘alt-right’ is going after Hollywood…but is it normal to have that many high profile people within one industry who love to make jokes about pedophilia?” Alexander asked. “An estimated 25% of girls and 16% of boys experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. LOL ?”

She isn’t wrong.

Hollywood is full of whack-jobs, what’s new? Is that a surprise to anyone? They are delusional and completely out of touch with reality. Or should I say, their reality is different than ours. Just from a psychological level, it’s essentially impossible to be grounded. There’s a very tiny handful that are ok, but there’s a reason 99% of them can’t stay married.


My only thing on Kramer. It certainly isn’t comparable as it wasn’t part of his set. He just attacked a black dude for heckling. You can watch his cars comedians and coffee episode with Seinfeld and he legit says he just lost it and hasn’t done a set again and it completely wrecked him. He didn’t get fired. He fired himself. Also, people likely wouldn’t have gone to his shows anymore. Regardless, it’s not a good comparison even on the outcome-front as he removed himself.
Even someone like Sarah Silverman with her (I think funny) “I hate chi**s” joke about Asians is more comparable.
But if we want to really direct it- they aren’t comparable. She’s a comedian and can be funny. Saget can be funny. Gunn isn’t a comedian and, well, is not funny. Has anyone seen a tweet that is funny yet? He just threw crap out for shock value.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Its fine to want to retire these jokes now because they are lazy, but this is all nearly a decade in the past... and a lot of people tell jokes about situations/bad things that have/can happen which are most horrific to them to take away power from those things, similar to the concept of the Boggart.

I know my personal experiences are tiny and are just anecdotal, I understand the world is a big place.
But Ive ever, ever, ever ever heard jokes like the ones that James Gun did. not in real life, not online. not in youtube comments, not on facebook. not on reddit, not in any forum.
most people just.... they just avoid jokes like that. not even the most hardcore trolls online ever joke about that. as stupid and naive as that sounds, i just have never met anyone online or in person that made these kind of jokes.
Youtube has one of the most toxic comment sections to ever exist, youtube is troll central. but ive never seen anyone joke about this kind of thing.


I think that's what shocked so many people about James Gunn. because most people never see that kind of jokes ever being made.

 

[Lucky Planet]

She isn’t wrong.

Hollywood is full of whack-jobs, what’s new? Is that a surprise to anyone? They are delusional and completely out of touch with reality. Or should I say, their reality is different than ours. Just from a psychological level, it’s essentially impossible to be grounded. There’s a very tiny handful that are ok, but there’s a reason 99% of them can’t stay married.


My only thing on Kramer. It certainly isn’t comparable as it wasn’t part of his set. He just attacked a black dude for heckling. You can watch his cars comedians and coffee episode with Seinfeld and he legit says he just lost it and hasn’t done a set again and it completely wrecked him. He didn’t get fired. He fired himself. Also, people likely wouldn’t have gone to his shows anymore. Regardless, it’s not a good comparison even on the outcome-front as he removed himself.
Even someone like Sarah Silverman with her (I think funny) “I hate chi**s” joke about Asians is more comparable.
But if we want to really direct it- they aren’t comparable. She’s a comedian and can be funny. Saget can be funny. Gunn isn’t a comedian and, well, is not funny. Has anyone seen a tweet that is funny yet? He just threw crap out for shock value.

yeah I know they are different cases. I didn't know Kramer fired himself. i was just talking about how comedians getting in trouble for their material is not gonna be something new.

James Gunn isn't even a comedian or even aspiring to get into comedy. who was he making those jokes for it makes me wonder. he says he wants to be a provocateur with his jokes but.... why did he even make them on twitter of all places?

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

What blows my mind is that they've amassed all of this wealth and fame yet they don't think that maybe just maybe some of the batsh** crazy thing's they're saying could potentially put all of that at risk? Either they think that they're invincible or they just make really poor judgement calls. I'll never understand that part.

 

[Alicia]

Its fine to want to retire these jokes now because they are lazy, but this is all nearly a decade in the past... and a lot of people tell jokes about situations/bad things that have/can happen which are most horrific to them to take away power from those things, similar to the concept of the Boggart.

Agreed.

Just because I feel it's time for comedy to grow-up a little with the culture, and be more respectful to all people, does not mean we should go back in time and punish those that made jokes in the past we now find out of taste. (And I am certainly against going on a witch hunt for specific types of comments from people that fit a specific type, which is what seems to be going on here.)

I still stand by what I said earlier, you can make a joke about anything, especially if it's something you have first hand experience with. Comedy can be important for people to understand differing points of view and can help individuals, groups, and even a nation, to cope with tragedy. But first and foremost, a joke must be constructed in a way that makes the author's intent clear, and secondly, it should probably be funny.

 

[Andysol]

What blows my mind is that they've amassed all of this wealth and fame yet they don't think that maybe just maybe some of the batsh** crazy thing's they're saying could potentially put all of that at risk? Either they think that they're invincible or they just make really poor judgement calls. I'll never understand that part.

It blows your mind because we can’t comprehend their reality.
Everyone loves you. Everyone all the time is telling you how great you are. You can’t go buy a pack of gum without being asked questions or being pointed out to someone. Anything and everything you say gets dissected- or, even more- anything you say has an audience of millions at your fingertips if you want.

They’re complete narcissists even if they didn’t start off that way. How can you not be? Again, psychology, you cannot stay grounded.

The whole me too mess and the enormous amount of people who thought they were above the law and decency and not only were they. But they were showered with accolades during the entire process.
And the other side of it- the “do anything to be famous” mentality that kind of got swept under the rug because no one wants to talk about that during the movement. For every badass Uma Thurman who said “nope”, how many said yes and are still acting right now? My first thought on the Anthony Rapp/Kevin spacey thing, as a parent, was “what the hell is that kid’s parents letting their 14 year old be at a late night Hollywood party with grown men for?”