Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

[Parkscope Joe]

I think this is pretty unfair. I think there are two strains of criticism that get lumped together:

• Universal doesn't build as many non-thrill dark rides as some fans want
• Universal doesn't build many attractions that the entire family can enjoy together

I think the people who want more dark rides built are pretty explicit that they want them to be built because they enjoy them. And I'm not even sure my second point is even a criticism so much as it is a statement of fact. I've done multiple trips to Orlando in the past few years with young kids or people who were pregnant at the time and there was tons to do at Disney World compared to Universal Orlando.

At this point, do I think it's reasonable to expect Universal will do either of these things? Not really. But I don't think it's a problem that some people want to see what Universal could do if they built more Secret Life of Pets and fewer screen-based, thrilling dark rides.

There's a lot to unpack, but I don't think it's unfair. People want Haunted Mansion, Pirates, etc style rides and Universal has never made those kids of rides. This can be for many reasons: they didn't start with parks till after the 80s amusement insurance crisis so they never had the no-restraint rides that Disney did, they never had the WED and Walt design style of the parks so they never made recreations of the animated films, they never had a culture and design principle of "child to grandma" for the parks. Universal parks have always been restrictive, over the top, loud, ornery, and stubborn. This is the company of Jaybangs not closing musical numbers. The parks have always aimed for a tween to late adult audience. The earliest they aimed for was kids just exiting the Hanna Barbara and entering Nickelodeon age, lets say 11, which puts their heights around 55 inches, which is enough for Hulk the highest requirement ride.

So lets cover your bullet points

• Universal doesn't build as many non-thrill dark rides as some fans want

I agree, but see above. And when they do build the non-thrill dark rides people complain because what they want are 1960s - 80s Disney dark rides. Not going to happen.

• Universal doesn't build many attractions that the entire family can enjoy together

What is "the entire family"? For some that's baby to grandma. Others it's the main four. I know families who visit Cedar Point and ride the huge rides all the time, do they not count?

For a lot of theme park fans they want old school Disney rides to come back but since for a long time Disney wasn't building it was thus on Universal to supply that. Now that Disney's building again hopefully we can let Disney be Disney and Universal to be Universal.

Disney has a market down pat, Universal has spent the past 16 years carving out a new, older market for Orlando. As for:

But I don't think it's a problem that some people want to see what Universal could do if they built more Secret Life of Pets and fewer screen-based, thrilling dark rides.

I think it's a problem because people are applying personal demands on a consumer transaction! Should I demand Disney build a giga coaster and a response to Hulk? No!

The unrealistic request of "no height requirement."

The "no height requirement" request has come up several times on this forum.

Which comes back to the 100% containment and restraints conversation. When was the last time someone got out of a Universal restraint?







Finally, to come back to my main point: folks will say they want family rides but have no family nor any intention to ride with one. They want a certain type of ride and just saying that would do well for discussions.

 

[belloq87]

It’s kind of dispiriting to see people ready to consign the classic dark ride artform to the dustbin. SLOP is only a few years old in Hollywood. Little Mermaid is a little over a decade old. Encanto and Coco are (presumably) going to be more of that ilk than anything else.

I reject the concept that the form is dead. Dead at UOR? Very possibly, the next five years will tell me a lot.

Finally, to come back to my main point: folks will say they want family rides but have no family nor any intention to ride with one. They want a certain type of ride and just saying that would do well for discussions.

I think this is a misrepresentation of those of us who want to see more dark rides that don’t jostle you around in front of screens (of which there is an overabundance). Any of us who are in that camp would always acknowledge it’s a personal desire. There's not some sinister, hidden agenda.

 

[Jake S]

Finally, to come back to my main point: folks will say they want family rides but have no family nor any intention to ride with one.

this is what’s unfair. you’re assuming bad faith when i just don’t see any evidence of it on this forum. people are saying what they would like to see at a theme park they like. you can think whatever you like about what they want or how reasonable it is to expect it, but just dismissing the opinion outright doesn’t seem fair to me.

 

[mccgavin]

Many of us who are asking for more dark rides are not suggesting that Universal completely change their strategy or target demographic, just that having one or two high-quality family dark rides would be a good way to round-out and balance the offerings of the parks that lack them. This is similar to how Disney has a handful of higher thrill attractions despite their focus primarily being on accessible family rides.

 

[Tbad556]

Which comes back to the 100% containment and restraints conversation. When was the last time someone got out of a Universal restraint?

I agree with some of your points, but as for this one, the answer is unfortunately, all the time. I used to work one of the lapbar based attractions and it absolutely happened an annoying amount. It just often avoids the news/social media. There's even a frequently used radio code for jumpers.

 

[OrlLover]

Universal sucks at those types of rides though.

Granted they were kids rides, but things like the Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar boat rides just aren’t very enjoyable.

Cat in the Hat is a great classic style Fantasyland like ride and yet Universal fans constantly complain about it “needing to be updated”.

I’d say maybe we leave those types of rides to Disney, but reality is, maybe we leave those types of rides to the 1960s, cause even Disney ain’t building them anymore.

Unfortunately.

I also think people need to go look at 1990s USF and see what attractions were opened with the park.

Asking for Universal’s take on Pirates and HM is very unrealistic and not true to the history of what rides Uni has created in the past.

Thrill/Edge are the words I would use to describe most Universal rides. Disney had a very different philosophy when it came to designing their parks so we need to understand those nuisances and appreciate the differences.

They are not catering to the same demographic groups and that’s okay. I would love for Uni to build more dark rides and if you see my posts I’m fairly against any more coasters for Epic.

 

[Tobias]

Cue six more pages talking about yea but what about height requirement

For me, SLoP has a bit of a conundrum...

It's definitely the high-quality family dark ride that folks say they want more of. I get that, and I agree with it! I would love to see this ride in Orlando or elsewhere.

But it's also hard to ignore that the vibe around the ride was Hollywood was getting it first, and they're gonna' wait and see how it was received before thinking about building it elsewhere. After all, there were plans to have it in Orlando. The ride opens annnnddd....it's yet to be cloned anywhere else with no signs of it happening. That just stings no matter how you look at it. You can have the thing you want, but that's never a guarantee it's going to succeed.

 

[mccgavin]

But it's also hard to ignore that the vibe around the ride was Hollywood was getting it first, and they're gonna' wait and see how it was received before thinking about building it elsewhere. After all, there were plans to have it in Orlando. The ride opens annnnddd....it's yet to be cloned anywhere else with no signs of it happening. That just stings no matter how you look at it. You can have the thing you want, but that's never a guarantee it's going to succeed.

There were some internal issues with the ride itself, but it sounds like the IP losing momentum also played some role in it not getting cloned.

 

[belloq87]

I also think people need to go look at 1990s USF and see what attractions were opened with the park.

I’m mean... I’d be absolutely thrilled to see a 2020s version of Kongfrontation or Jaws or Earthquake, but I don’t hold out a ton of hope that we’ll ever see fully/mostly practical ride experiences on that gigantic scale at Universal again.

Hence the expressed desire for a more “family friendly” (which has apparently taken on negative connotations) dark ride... because it seems like a more plausible template for something that wouldn’t require a bunch of screen segments (like a more thrilling ride might).

(And I know we're in an Epic Universe thread... but I'm mostly talking about this stuff in the context of USF. I do think, given Epic's attractions roster, that it's due for a dark ride -- of some kind -- before another coaster.)

 

[Freak]

I agree with some of your points, but as for this one, the answer is unfortunately, all the time. I used to work one of the lapbar based attractions and it absolutely happened an annoying amount. It just often avoids the news/social media. There's even a frequently used radio code for jumpers.

In past years, you would be really surprised how many people have jumped out of the car for the Simpsons Ride because they were scared.

 

[kingcooger]

Isn’t it also possible that most of the Disney rides we are referencing are so old that they got grandfathered into being “acceptably safe”?

I know Disneyland at one point got worried about their Alice in Wonderland ride and self imposed extra safety measures

Universal doesn’t have rides that are 40+ years old yet and the ones closest to that mark are ET, Simpsons, and Despicable Me as the rest keep getting replaced with all new ride systems

Admittedly, Disney has built at least three no height requirement dark rides in the last 20 years (Ratatouille, Runaway Railway, and Midway Mania) so I do still think Universal has some catching up to do, even if it’s just one additional ride per park

 

[Andysol]

I'm sorry to keep pressing this but, none of those rides at Universal Kids meet the requirements that these people on these forums are asking for. You could add a thousand spinners for babies to UOR. It wouldn't matter, it's not a "no height requirement darkride" that has been mentioned several times on these forums (which I'd argue will never happen at Universal, likely due to safety policies).

It’s all about motivation.

People aren’t just saying “dark ride”. Many are saying “dark ride with no height requirement” and are stating their reasoning is to expand the umbrella. And I, and @Parkscope Joe are saying BS on that one for many people.

Want an old school dark ride, fine. Totally normal to want that and I’d love some too. But then to wrap the “no height requirement” part under it while completely dismissing that universal Orlando obviously and blatantly doesn’t want to attract toddlers and infants and has shown their cards with universal kids is just silly. People need to stop saying no height requirement or talking about restraints. It’s silly and it’s pointless and it is never, ever happening.

Finally, to come back to my main point: folks will say they want family rides but have no family nor any intention to ride with one. They want a certain type of ride and just saying that would do well for discussions.

This. People won’t admit it, but it’s glaringly true in many folks cases.

For the 10th time. Wanting a highly themed classic style dark ride and wanting a highly themed classic dark ride *with no height requirement* are 2 vastly different things.

If you’re putting that stipulation on there, be ready to defend your opinion/position as a whole.

Admittedly, Disney has built at least three no height requirement dark rides in the last 20 years (Ratatouille, Runaway Railway, and Midway Mania) so I do still think Universal has some catching up to do, even if it’s just one additional ride per park

Not picking on you specifically, you were just the last comment. So using your comment as an example- How do they have catching up to do? MIB is superior to midway mania and Spider-Man is vastly superior to either Ratatouille or Runaway Railway. They just appeal to different crowds. And here is the key part- Intentionally.

No… universal does not need a trackless shrek ride that can fit infants like many disney attractions of old or like the ones you mentioned. Yes… I would love a trackless shrek ride. See how those differ? But I’m not going to say it needs to be no height requirement because I don’t care and know universal for sure doesn’t; just give me the ride.

-

What I would argue universal has catching up to do is innovative ride technology. They’re the themed coaster and themed land kings. But beyond that; Kuka and Scoop constantly reused instead of using new unique and innovative ride systems- like disney is bringing out what seems like every 5 years now; even on “lesser” attractions like cars in MK; which is pushing the bar constantly. They tried with Mario and (a little) with Ministry but they need to push much harder. The fact Beijing didn’t have a single unique ride system? And epic tried only one? They’re getting beat heavily in that vein.

But Epic isn’t the park for that experiment- UK, IoA and USF is. Epic just needs butts in more seats. Capacity is all that matters right now there.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I also think people need to go look at 1990s USF and see what attractions were opened with the park.

Asking for Universal’s take on Pirates and HM is very unrealistic and not true to the history of what rides Uni has created in the past.

Thrill/Edge are the words I would use to describe most Universal rides. Disney had a very different philosophy when it came to designing their parks so we need to understand those nuisances and appreciate the differences.

They are not catering to the same demographic groups and that’s okay. I would love for Uni to build more dark rides and if you see my posts I’m fairly against any more coasters for Epic.

Exactly this. And as a reminder, a coaster ride system can do a lot that isn’t a pure coaster: see Gringotts.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

What I would argue universal has catching up to do is innovative ride technology. They’re the themed coaster and themed land kings. But beyond that; Kuka and Scoop constantly reused instead of using new unique and innovative ride systems- like disney is bringing out what seems like every 5 years now; even on “lesser” attractions like cars in MK; which is pushing the bar constantly. They tried with Mario and (a little) with Ministry but they need to push much harder. The fact Beijing didn’t have a single unique ride system? And epic tried only one? They’re getting beat heavily in that vein.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier, more non-Kuka/Scoop style attractions... for dark rides specifically.

The introduction of new ride systems gives them the ability to not only provide a different ride experience, but potentially tell different type of stories (not just the traditional something goes wrong and jostle you in front of a screen experience).

 

[HandsomePete]

The real missed opportunity was a Peoplemover-style elevated loop around Celestial. Would have been a good way to communicate the lore of the area/park to the GP. Bonus points if you’re allowed to bring drinks onboard.

 

[Andysol]

The real missed opportunity was a Peoplemover-style elevated loop around Celestial. Would have been a good way to communicate the lore of the area/park to the GP. Bonus points if you’re allowed to bring drinks onboard.

Big time. Would have been a brilliant move. That plus a well themed/lighted chair swing ride really could have improved the area quite a bit.

 

[LPCaptainDeath]

The real missed opportunity was a Peoplemover-style elevated loop around Celestial. Would have been a good way to communicate the lore of the area/park to the GP. Bonus points if you’re allowed to bring drinks onboard.

Yeah, i've posted about this before too! A 'Celestial Train' with a mascot conductor would've hit the spot.

This park is in dire need of some 'simple-but-long' rides that are low on thrills and easy for anyone to ride both in wait time and duration. Just imagine if this park had been built with a Captain Cacao universal-train-of-sorts (A PEOPLE MOVER, one could say) that traveled through all portals in the back of each land, not stopping at any of them but showing individual little scenes in between each portal as a snippet for something not found inside... A 'duna-duna-duna' segment of Mario land showing Luigi lost in the underground, an extra look at Ygor in the catacombs preparing the experiments for riders about to come in, the background of some ministry offices trying to ignore the muggle onlookers, some dragons nesting in caves under berk, etc. This is where screens would be welcome because it's not about advanced levels of immersion, it's about simplicity for the rides' sake!
ahhhh... to dream

 

[Parkscope Joe]

The real missed opportunity was a Peoplemover-style elevated loop around Celestial. Would have been a good way to communicate the lore of the area/park to the GP. Bonus points if you’re allowed to bring drinks onboard.

Cupholder in the restraint. See now we're finding SOLUTIONS.

 

[Mad Dog]

Unfortunately, the dudes that are paid big bucks to come up with common sensical solutions, built some too high tech rides with low capacity plus too many outdoor rides, not enough indoor, rides for a high temperature/high humidity/ heavy rainfall environment. And never bothered to increase the number of highly trained maintenance workers to deal with the problems a new high tech park comes with during its initial year(s).

 

[Casper Gutman]

Universal in Orlando will never be for:

1) babies and toddlers
2) very obese people
3) very tall people
4) amputees

It’ll never change. Talking about it is futile.

They’re fine ceding those groups to Disney. Though Disney’s new rides are becoming more restrictive as well; they just have a plethora of staples to fall back on.

This is cute, but there are a ton of people Universal will apparently “never be for,” that you don’t mention, including older guests, handicapped guests, guests with certain fairly common medical conditions, guests traveling with any of the above mentioned individuals …

I mean, maybe Uni is happy with the kind of hand-waving you’re doing, but it’s not clear exactly what advantage they reap from excluding reasonably large groups of paying customers.

PS: It’s endlessly funny to me that the resort that is heavily reliant on Harry Potter, Despicable Me, Dr Seuss, Shrek, How to Train your Dragon, Mario, and soon Pokémon supposedly doesn’t want to cater to children. If every ride at Uni was based on Fast and Furious or the Monsters, maybe that argument would hold more water.

If we’re assuming bad faith, I also think there’s a not insignificant number of Uni fans who like the thrill focus because they want to feel secure that they’re Big Brave Men when they’re getting their picture with a Minion.

PPS: is there any actual evidence for the “Universal has a policy of stricter safety requirements regarding restraints,” idea, or is that strictly supposition?