Fantasyland Expansion - Part 2

[brianlo]

^It is considered an E-ticket. But it's probably going to fall on par with SDMT excitement wise (ie. a few steps below Big Thunder).

So either SDMT is an E-ticket or Matterhorn isn't.

Edited to add: I realize I really didn't state my opinion, but I'm of the opinion that it doesn't really matter. However you classify it (E or D), I think it works as well if not thematically better than Matterhorn.

It definitely won't be the greatest ride at Magic Kingdom, but I think it will certainly fit the bill.

They could have also done more with the money. Hong Kong spent essentially the same amount for two "strong" E-tickets plus Toy Story. I don't think it needed a better attraction though, just a third D/D+ to help round it out.

 

[Hatetofly]

Whoa! HKDL spent the same for Mystic Manor, Grizzly Gulch, and Toy Story as the MK did for NFL? If that's the case we got screwed on a massive level!

 

[Orlandolover]

Matterhorn



Matterhorn



Matterhorn


Ya sure it's based on a real versus fictional "mountain/hill/what-have-you". Why is one grandfathered in as a "classic E-ticket plumped down in the middle of a land, blocking out everything behind it" that Magic Kingdom never got? Whereas SDMT will probably be similarly tame - maybe more exciting thanks to the swinging (oohhh-ahhhh) AND have a few good show scenes.

Honestly, Matterhorn is really rather tame by today's standards.

So seriously... burn Matterhorn to the ground... It's a travesty.... A poor man's BTMRR.... Walt Disney would have never approved!!!

(End of Sarcasm) :wave:

When I posted about how Snow White blocks everything behind it I thought someone would bring up the Matterhorn. The Matterhorn is different, however, because it acts as a wall between tomorrowland and Fantasyland. It is on the outskirts of the land while Snow White is plopped in the middle. Having Matterhorn where the Carousal is right now is the equivalent comparison. It blocks up the land not acts as a border. Matterhorn is considered an Eticket it is the tallest thing in the park and a huge icon at Disneyland! I love Snow White Mine Train but don't like its placement at all.

 

[brianlo]

Yup I believe 460 million.

They are essentially the same thing in concept two. 3 mini-hub lands. Toy Story=Dumbo's Circus, Grizzly=SDMT, Mystic Manor area=BATB/Mermaid.

But yes, you can see how differently money can be spent. I think NFL needed three things to be more successful.

1) A third D-ticket (replace story-time with Belle with a dark ride)

2) Proper Mermaid ending with a few plusses throughout the ride to address major complaints

3) Tightened timeline. SDMT should be opening NOW to counter program Uni/Seaworld. Plus the back-half of the mountain would have been completed last December along with Mermaid so that it seemed more complete.

Then I would have no complaints. Even still #3 won't matter 5 years from now, and I still thoroughly enjoy Mermaid.

 

[Nick]

Well, if anything, we won with Storybook Circus over Toy Story

Unfortunately, that money could've been much better spent than either concept.

 

[Felipe]

Whoa! HKDL spent the same for Mystic Manor, Grizzly Gulch, and Toy Story as the MK did for NFL? If that's the case we got screwed on a massive level!

Wouldn't materials, labor, etc. all cost much less in Asia? Not trying to be discriminatory in any way... Just thinking it would be less costly to build there :shrug:

 

[brianlo]

The Matterhorn is different, however, because it acts as a wall between tomorrowland and Fantasyland. sic It is on the outskirts of the land while Snow White is plopped in the middle. It blocks up the land not acts as a border. sic Matterhorn is considered an Eticket it is the tallest thing in the park and a huge icon at Disneyland!

Sorry to play Devil's advocate but isn't NFL and Fantasyland Prime supposed to sort of be two separate lands? Certainly that's what the castle wall, SDMT and what the everything the imagineers have been preaching are trying to accomplish.

Matterhorn is tall and pretty but as we all know pretty apparently won't make SDMT a better ride. Also SDMT is going to be an "icon" of sorts, but again that still does not make it a better ride!

My argument is not actually to tear apart Matterhorn, but to demonstrate how similar the two attractions are. Either both deserve vitriol or both are great D-tickets or weaker E-tickets.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, if anything, we won with Storybook Circus over Toy Story

Unfortunately, that money could've been much better spent than either concept.

True. Although I don't hate either one. They just are missing their big ticket item. TSMM and a simple Dumbo Dark-ride. I'm still pretty hopeful that HKDL will get its TSMM, MK on the other hand....

 

[Brervixen]

Matterhorn is considered an E-ticket because at the time it was built it was a technical marvel, the first tubular steel coaster! So it's more a "historical E-Ticket!"

 

[tribbleorlfl]

But the tickets had to do with demand as well as the ride itself. Considering the is the centerpiece of MK's first major addition in 2 decades, it'll be swarmed like an E for awhile. That bumps it, imo.

I absolutely agree with you, jt. People don't remember (or realize) that the ticketing system was there in part to encourage traffic to the less-popular attractions and to capitalize on the popularity of the more in-demand attractions.

Heck, half of the Magic Kingdom E-ticket attractions are hardly what I'd call epic in scope or heavy on the thrills (two criteria many on this board and the modern theme park community use to define E ticket attractions), but all were popular w/ guests in the early years of the park: Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Country Bear Jamboree, Hall of Presidents, Jungle Cruise, It’s a Small World, and 20,000 Leagues under the Sea.

Objectively, I believe there is enough in this attraction that would satisfy both the original and modern definition of an E-ticket, and it's going to be immensely popular for quite sometime. Anyone that thinks otherwise is allowing their bias against Disney/for Universal to color their judgement.

 

[Thor]

I absolutely agree with you, jt. People don't remember (or realize) that the ticketing system was there in part to encourage traffic to the less-popular attractions and to capitalize on the popularity of the more in-demand attractions.

Heck, half of the Magic Kingdom E-ticket attractions are hardly what I'd call epic in scope or heavy on the thrills (two criteria many on this board and the modern theme park community use to define E ticket attractions), but all were popular w/ guests in the early years of the park: Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Country Bear Jamboree, Hall of Presidents, Jungle Cruise, It’s a Small World, and 20,000 Leagues under the Sea.

Objectively, I believe there is enough in this attraction that would satisfy both the original and modern definition of an E-ticket, and it's going to be immensely popular for quite sometime. Anyone that thinks otherwise is allowing their bias against Disney/for Universal to color their judgement.

No, 7D does not have enough to call it an E. And no, this is not any bias against Disney. And of course, the opposite is true: anyone calling this a mountain and an E is allowing their bias toward Disney cloud their thinking.

It is a family coaster through a hill (I won't call it a kiddie coaster like many others do). I'd classify it a D ticket, but it falls short of an E.

 

[Angela_D]

Heck, half of the Magic Kingdom E-ticket attractions are hardly what I'd call epic in scope or heavy on the thrills (two criteria many on this board and the modern theme park community use to define E ticket attractions), but all were popular w/ guests in the early years of the park: Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Country Bear Jamboree, Hall of Presidents, Jungle Cruise, It’s a Small World, and 20,000 Leagues under the Sea.

I lured my friends into Country Bear Jamboree under the false pretence that it was an E-ticket just so I could see their looks of confusion/disappointment. It was very satisfying (I was retaliating after they refused to see the Hall of Presidents with me - there was 0 wait!) :wave:

 

[Miketheboss]

[video=youtube;xB6b2icSHDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB6b2icSHDU[/video]

Forward to 2:04 to see the backside of the mine train. So far, it looks great.

 

[Disneyhead]

I would put the 7DMT as a solid D Ticket. But I agree that with the state of the MK, Disney would probably consider it an E Ticket. And I agree that it will have very long lines. But that is because there has been almost nothing of substance added to the MK since 1992. Disney fans are STARVED for new content. It just means that there are 17 Million guests a year that go to the MK, many of which are repeat visitors, and they crave something new. But because it will have a consistently long line, Disney will consider it an E Ticket. And market it as such.

 

[Brervixen]

I would put the 7DMT as a solid D Ticket. But I agree that with the state of the MK, Disney would probably consider it an E Ticket. And I agree that it will have very long lines. But that is because there has been almost nothing of substance added to the MK since 1992. Disney fans are STARVED for new content. It just means that there are 17 Million guests a year that go to the MK, many of which are repeat visitors, and they crave something new. But because it will have a consistently long line, Disney will consider it an E Ticket. And market it as such.

This makes sense.

 

[rhino4evr]

im excited to ride it that's for sure.

 

[Brervixen]

im excited to ride it that's for sure.

Me too, probably will do a fairly cheap trip this year so I can go next year as well

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I've always hated the "A-E Ticket" assignment concept. It's so old people try to compare it to when it was in practice, even if an E ticket in the 70s was somehow the same as an E ticket now. I prefer the Unofficial Guide scale myself, with Super Headliners, Headliners, Major Attractions, etc, more myself. It makes more sense, it's current, and can be adjusted independent of politics/money.

 

[quickfire609]

I've always hated the "A-E Ticket" assignment concept. It's so old people try to compare it to when it was in practice, even if an E ticket in the 70s was somehow the same as an E ticket now. I prefer the Unofficial Guide scale myself, with Super Headliners, Headliners, Major Attractions, etc, more myself. It makes more sense, it's current, and can be adjusted independent of politics/money.

A-E Ticket scales are just easier to discuss, but we need a scale everybody can have a consensus on.

I don't think that will ever happen though.

 

[Hatetofly]

A-E Ticket scales are just easier to discuss, but we need a scale everybody can have a consensus on.

I don't think that will ever happen though.

Easy we will refer to them on how the next decade will pan out in Orlando.

Universal: The new cutting edge barrier breaking Eticket level attractions.

Disney: themed story telling basic Dticket attractions

SeaWorld: crap

See you don't need a,b,c,d, or e just refer to who is building them now a days and that's all you need

 

[ReelJustice]

Easy we will refer to them on how the next decade will pan out in Orlando.

Universal: The new cutting edge barrier breaking Eticket level attractions.

Disney: themed story telling basic Dticket attractions

SeaWorld: crap

See you don't need a,b,c,d, or e just refer to who is building them now a days and that's all you need

:rep: