Fantasyland Expansion - Part 2

[Nick]

I had a chili dog at Casey's the other day. I then burped at one point afterwards and smelled the chili on my breath. The first things that came to my mind were "I'm a walking Stitch attraction" and "This is why I don't go on Stitch".

 

[IzzyB]

Nobody likes Stitch.

Also, the problem with Tomorrowland isn't so much the attractions are terrible (even though they all are) it's that it's becoming Fantasyland East. There's no reason to have so many cartoon based attractions there.

I never commented on the quality of attractions in tomorrowland, but more so the diversity within tomorrowland. I agree it needs to be worked on big time. I don't mind stitch (I didn't say I love or even like it, but don't mind it), but my hubby hates it. I was surprised when my nurse said her family likes it. So I guess some people in the GP like it. I really wish they had done buzzlightyear better. It had potential even as an omnimover. They could have had guns not attached, less bulky. The targets could have been less "fake" and less flat. More action when you hit things and a better ending scene. The "stars" scene seems odd and nothing to shoot at. So yeah, overall the concept was good, but poorly implemented. I don't mind that character being in there as it is space, future like. I still don't understand why laugh floor (is that better?) is there.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

Nobody likes Stitch.

Also, the problem with Tomorrowland isn't so much the attractions are terrible (even though they all are) it's that it's becoming Fantasyland East. There's no reason to have so many cartoon based attractions there.

I'm sorry, but ALL the attractions are terrible?

 

[JungleSkip]

and there isn't much you can do with Tomorrowland though, since Epcot basically covers everything Tomorrowland used to be.

Tomorrowland in Florida hasn't been a look into the realistic future since 1994. It's be far more science fiction than science fact.

I'm sorry, but ALL the attractions are terrible?

No. TTA is awesome. But everything else is pretty bad. Space Mountain is straight up painful, SGE is SGE, MILF is boring, Buzz is okay, but is outclassed by both TSMM and MIB in Orlando, CoP is a classic but that's about the best I can say about it, Astro Orbitor is just another spinner, and Speedway is an abomination.

Tomorrowland is in REALLY bad shape.

 

[J03Y]

I'm sorry, but ALL the attractions are terrible?

Even Space Mountain, Transit Authority and Buzz Lightyear gasp we have a rebel!

 

[jtsalien]

I don't agree with your assessment of this one. I am not a fan of MILF and neither are my kids. But my nurse's teenagers LOVE this ride. So apparently MILF appeals to that age group, which is not the same age group that Pooh (which my kids love) targets.

So when you look at tomorrowland you have the following rides:

AstroOrbiter - Dumbo on steroids and fun for all ages unless you don't like spinny rides.
Buzz Lightyear - While this could have been done SO much better, it really targets kids of all ages and even some adults. I know I like it and so do all my in-laws. My husband is the only one that doesn't like it.
MILF - Teenagers
Spacemountain - Teenagers to adults
Stitch's Great Escape - Kids over 40 in tall until probably 18 (my nurses kids also like this one, so I am thinking teenagers like it)
Speedway - Kids
PeopleMover - Adults (of course my son likes the motion of it, so maybe infants too)
Carousal of Progress - Not sure, older adults?

So looking at the break down of just this one land and the one land people think needs the most work, I am seeing it pretty balanced.

It depends on your sense of humor. But you can't argue that the show's humor isn't targeted to a level that's below most people in the family. Somebody in the family will almost always be bored.

90% of people without kids don't go on AstroOrbiter just like they don't go on Dumbo. Astro is definitely more suitable for bigger kids than Dumbo, but most people won't wait in line for it. Buzz is what I counted for the one attraction build for 9+. Teenagers liked Alien Encounter, Stitch not so much.

But my point wasn't that any specific land was too kid heavy, but in 20 years it's not unrealistic to expect them to build more than one new exciting ride for the over 9 crowd. It's clear what they've changed the demo of the park to being.

and there isn't much you can do with Tomorrowland though, since Epcot basically covers everything Tomorrowland used to be.

Tron and Wall-E are big characters to push. You could go retro future like Disvoeryland as well.

 

[J03Y]

Tomorrowland in Florida hasn't been a look into the realistic future since 1994. It's be far more science fiction than science fact.



No. TTA is awesome. But everything else is pretty bad. Space Mountain is straight up painful, SGE is SGE, MILF is boring, Buzz is okay, but is outclassed by both TSMM and MIB in Orlando, CoP is a classic but that's about the best I can say about it, Astro Orbitor is just another spinner, and Speedway is an abomination.

Tomorrowland is in REALLY bad shape.

Like I said Epcot covers science fact, Tomorrowland needs Sci-Fi. And that's the 'problem they focus more on Disney rather than Sci-Fi. Tomorrowland needs to be the next MK land to get a major expansion on attractions, hell even make it look like a Sci-Fi metropolis like land.

 

[Nick]

MILF can be fun if you go in with a positive attitude about it. I go with a group of friends every now and then and we tend to have a great time.

 

[J03Y]

Tron* and Wall-E aren't bad ideas, but they should focus on the worlds more than the characters. revamp TL to look like the Grid, now THAT is cool.

 

[JungleSkip]

Like I said Epcot covers science fact, Tomorrowland needs Sci-Fi.

Right. I never said it didn't.

 

[J03Y]

The idea of Tron-fying TL is increasingly an awesome idea

 

[Disneyhead]

i think that whole complaint that it's become a park for only kids is silly, it only seems like that because of the whole Fantasyland thing but if you think about it that's just one area of the park, and you can maybe argue the same thing for that whole Seven Seas thing near Pirates other than that the park is still fairly well-rounded imo.

jt did a fine job of outlining the changes but I just want to pound some of the points home.

20,000 Leagues was replaced by Ariel.
Mr. Toads was replaced by Pooh
Snow Whites Scary Adventure is being replaced by Princess Meet and Greets

And actually Tomorrowland has suffered the MOST toddlerization:

Alien Encounter was replaced by Stitch
Timekeeper was replaced by Monsters, Inc.
If You Had Wings was replaced by Buzz
Tomorrowland Amphitheater was replaced by a tiny stage in the middle of Tomorrowland built specifically for a Stitch show.

They now junk up the Castle Courtyard with a stage for Cinderellabration.

They replaced the original Enchanted Tiki Room with Zazu and Iago (thank you who ever set fire to the place).

And do I need to mention dropping cartoon based flying Persian Carpets complete with spitting camels smack dab in the middle of French Polynesia? I am waiting for them to add The Bagdad Cafe to the Polynesian Resort.

And not really toddlerization but the addition of Capt. Jack into PotC is blatant commercialization of a classic attraction. And just so happens he appeals to the little boys.

Add to that NOTHING screams spooky crypt like slap activated noise makers and a water playground.

 

[J03Y]

I replied to his post that I'd reply similarly to yours Disneyhead.

And I thought Zazu and Iago were removed from Tiki Room recently. And the QUEUE for Haunted Mansion was made to pass time considering some days the line goes past the front gate.

Alien Encounter was replaced because it was traumatizing, and it was taken out long before Stitch took over. Buzz Lightyear is liked by everyone in the family it's theme is kid centered but it's far from other ages to be uninterested. Jack Sparrow is a character that everyone likes and was added to DL as well that's not a valid argument to include since the purpose wasn't to appeal to little boys. The bazaar was empty that the only interesting things in AL in the area were Tiki Room and maybe Jungle Cruise and that was IF you could manage to talk the kid to going just for Pirates, having something Aladdin themes wouldn't have been a stretch since barely anything "kiddie" was even in that land.

There is a fair balance of it in the kingdom, mainly in Fantasyland, occupying part of Tomorrowland and one attraction intended to be as such in Adventureland. Looking at it on whole as a park, the topic is frankly being blown out of proportion.

 

[JungleSkip]

And I thought Zazu and Iago were removed from Tiki Room recently. And the QUEUE for Haunted Mansion was made to pass time considering some days the line goes past the front gate.

If the line is that long the interactive portion does absolutely nothing to "pass the time". It's at the very end of the queue.

Alien Encounter was replaced because it was traumatizing, and it was taken out long before Stitch took over.

False. Alien Encounter closed in 2003 to make way for Stitch which opened in 2004.

The bazaar was empty that the only interesting things in AL in the area were Tiki Room and maybe Jungle Cruise and that was IF you could manage to talk the kid to going just for Pirates,

Puuuuuuhhhhhlease. Jungle Cruise and Pirates have always done gangbusters with the guests. Aladdin was in no way, shape, or form needed to enhance Adventureland's kiddie draw.

 

[Mike]

jt did a fine job of outlining the changes but I just want to pound some of the points home.

20,000 Leagues was replaced by Ariel.
Mr. Toads was replaced by Pooh
Snow Whites Scary Adventure is being replaced by Princess Meet and Greets

And actually Tomorrowland has suffered the MOST toddlerization:

Alien Encounter was replaced by Stitch
Timekeeper was replaced by Monsters, Inc.
If You Had Wings was replaced by Buzz
Tomorrowland Amphitheater was replaced by a tiny stage in the middle of Tomorrowland built specifically for a Stitch show.

BTW, I know you're not saying this, but 20K to Ariel as some sort of improvement that we should be falling all over ourselves on is silly.

What I equate The Little Mermaid addition to would be shutting down Space Mountain (as they did with DL's Carousel building) for 10 years. Let it sit there and rot closed as a reminder of a lost attraction, again for 10 years. Once the ten years is up, tear it down. Leave the remaining empty plot to sit vacant for another 8 years, maybe setup a M&G or playground intermittently. Design and plan for a number of unique, fresh E-tickets during those 18 years, with each one sheleved, and then right about the year 2030, put in a mediocre coaster themed to Disney's 2010 Tron Legacy.

 

[Disneyhead]

I replied to his post that I'd reply similarly to yours Disneyhead.

And I thought Zazu and Iago were removed from Tiki Room recently. And the QUEUE for Haunted Mansion was made to pass time considering some days the line goes past the front gate.

Alien Encounter was replaced because it was traumatizing, and it was taken out long before Stitch took over. Buzz Lightyear is liked by everyone in the family it's theme is kid centered but it's far from other ages to be uninterested. Jack Sparrow is a character that everyone likes and was added to DL as well that's not a valid argument to include since the purpose wasn't to appeal to little boys. The bazaar was empty that the only interesting things in AL in the area were Tiki Room and maybe Jungle Cruise and that was IF you could manage to talk the kid to going just for Pirates, having something Aladdin themes wouldn't have been a stretch since barely anything "kiddie" was even in that land.

There is a fair balance of it in the kingdom, mainly in Fantasyland, occupying part of Tomorrowland and one attraction intended to be as such in Adventureland. Looking at it on whole as a park, the topic is frankly being blown out of proportion.

First of all I will simply start with the fact that until 1992, NOTHING 'toony existed ANYWHERE outside of Fantasyland except for roaming characters. Splash Mountain included the first toons to escape the invisible bonds of Fantasyland. I much preferred the attention to detailed macrothemeing that gave the feeling of being in a different time or place. Now the time is "NOW!" and the place is unmistakably "Disney Parks®". They are obviously changing the park to appeal to the kiddie demographic. And that's fine. It just doesn't appeal to me and my teen and preteen daughters. We spend our money elsewhere. Disney could have my money while still be appealing to children. I don't remember children begging NOT to go WDW prior to this shift in demo courting. But now my daughters would rather stay home or go to the mall than go to the MK. As a matter of fact, during cast previews of The New Fantasyland my 16 year old BEGGED me to let her stay home as opposed to go check out the new land. So I let her. It was just my 12 year old daughter and I, and she was begging to leave at 4pm even though I wanted to stay and check out Celebrate the Magic and the Castle Lighting ceremony. I couldn't think of anything else to do for 4 hours (I can't imagine the reaction I would have gotten if I had suggested SGE or MILF) so we left at 4PM.

Yes, Iago and Zazu were removed from The Enchanted Tiki Room after the fire. And that is a step in the right direction. And your rationale for blatant disregard for theming with flying Persian Carpets and Camels in French Polynesia is ridiculous. They don't call them "Imagineers' for nothing. Make them continue to earn that title. And lazy plug and play theme park development isn't them earning that title. There is a reason why, when building The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, Universal Creative didn't plop a Spongebob Squarepants spinner in the middle of Hogsmeade. And that reason is called "Themeing", macrothemeing to be exact. And this is one area that UOR is now excelling at and WDW is failing miserably. I'm not saying, "Don't put a spinner in Adventureland". What I am saying is IF you must put a spinner in the French Polynesian section of Adventureland, theme it to French Polynesia. I hate to type this and will probably douse my hands with Purell after typing it, but a "Stitch in Hawaii" spinner would have been a better thematic choice. Or IF you HAVE to put a Persian Carpet themed spinner there, retheme the entire area. The Bazaar isn't that big and could easily have been rethemed to include an Aladdin Meet and Great, a falafel stand, and a cart selling hookahs that also make julian fries. As is, it just feels like they threw in something to please the kids with minimal effort and the kids won't notice. I am not 4 and I notice.

And yes, sometimes the queue line for Haunted Mansion extends out past the attraction entrance. And that has been the case for 40 years. But IF they felt the need to plus the queue, they could have gone a much more subtle route that is less tone deaf to the theme of the attraction than slap activated noise makers and a water playground. Like maybe put in a lot more animated gravestones similar to Madame Leota's. Things you have to pay attention too instead of squeal inducing water effects. I am now eagerly awaiting them replacing the Lightening/Hanging effect in the Stretching Room with big projection of Goofy's face saying "Boo". You know because the former is too intense for the kiddies.

 

[IzzyB]

I guess every child is different and they can't appeal to everyone. But all of the teenagers I have met would more than gladly go to Disney and Magic Kingdom. Yes, I get tired of it, but I am there a ton, but my kids never get tired of it. I think Disney got caught with their pants off and now it is taking them a long time to get dressed. Five years ago when my in-laws came down they went to Universal and felt the theming sucked compared to Disney. I remember my father-in-law saying that Universal doesn't have the same feel as Disney and that he preferred Disney. And this is coming from someone that loves roller coaster and action rides. Now because of WWOHP things have changed. Universal has realized the power of themed properly lands. They ended up theming it more than Disney ever had and I don't think Disney realized what that would do. Now they are trying to play catch up BUT they didn't have the plans in the work to do it. And since Disney is slow as anything when doing this crap, they are in trouble and trying to add small things until they can get their crap together.

But to say that MK only appeals to the under 7 crowd, I think that is going too far. Because I know plenty of people young and old that still love MK and everything about it.

 

[J03Y]

that's what it boils down to really it depends on the person and what they pick up when they go to Disney, if you're the kind of person who loves more excitement and grown-up things then MK is just going to seem like a huge overall kid-fest to you

 

[Eric]

First of all I will simply start with the fact that until 1992, NOTHING 'toony existed ANYWHERE outside of Fantasyland except for roaming characters. Splash Mountain included the first toons to escape the invisible bonds of Fantasyland. I much preferred the attention to detailed macrothemeing that gave the feeling of being in a different time or place. Now the time is "NOW!" and the place is unmistakably "Disney Parks®". They are obviously changing the park to appeal to the kiddie demographic. And that's fine. It just doesn't appeal to me and my teen and preteen daughters. We spend our money elsewhere. Disney could have my money while still be appealing to children. I don't remember children begging NOT to go WDW prior to this shift in demo courting. But now my daughters would rather stay home or go to the mall than go to the MK. As a matter of fact, during cast previews of The New Fantasyland my 16 year old BEGGED me to let her stay home as opposed to go check out the new land. So I let her. It was just my 12 year old daughter and I, and she was begging to leave at 4pm even though I wanted to stay and check out Celebrate the Magic and the Castle Lighting ceremony. I couldn't think of anything else to do for 4 hours (I can't imagine the reaction I would have gotten if I had suggested SGE or MILF) so we left at 4PM.

I'm not going to disagree with you as I pretty much agree with everything you said, but I feel as though Florida Residents (for the most part) feel differently about Disney World. I'm not originally from Florida (just relocated less than a year ago) and the majority of people I went to high school with would DIE to go to Magic Kingdom (even though they've already been). In fact, I have some friends (mind you, they're 19+) are ecstatic about visiting Magic Kingdom in a couple of weeks. Yea, we're still going to USF and IOA, but Magic Kingdom is the highlight for them.

 

[Brian G.]

I just want to point out that a majority of the people here that are critical of Magic Kingdom, are the same people who love Disneyland.